CT Only: Looking to publish, for free, a retroclone of Classic Traveller

[Mythic Mountains]

Hello! I reached out to the FFE email but hadn't heard back and so someone had suggested that I post here and see if someone could help me. I recently finished a long campaign of Classic Traveller as a new Referee coming from the OSR. I was really happy to have and use the Classic Facsimile, printed at cost, I found that very generous. I found that while it is a very easy read and well organized, it is not ideal for at table play. We use a rather simulationist expression of the game, measuring distances and travel times and such and trying to employ all the game procedures. For this purpose the closest thing I found was the Starter Set "Charts" Book.

Anyways, I have not found anything close to the easy format and usability at the table I was used to with D&D OSR products, especially say "Old School Essentials" for the 1981 D&D Basic Set.

What I'd really like to do is create something close to "OSRIC" (OSRIC is an index and reference compendium of rules that condensed and formats 1e AD&D for use at the table), an index and reference compendium that is an aide-to-play, that provides the procedures that are Referee facing by phase of play, similar to the "Charts" book but with modern formatting, likely in A5, condensed and very compact and easy to use at the table, then release it for free as a tool online or printed at cost only.

After I finished the campaign I met lots of people that really like Classic Traveller but also liked the idea of having a handy index and reference book, and I've met many people that found Classic Traveller too daunting to get into because of the many procedures in the Facsimile book (they also sometimes get confused as to whether they should use one of the other 3 initial or starter editions.) I think this would really invite people into Classic Traveller, especially younger people.

Anyways if anyone could help, I noted FFE's "Fair Use" policy, requiring any project be approved by FFE if it is more than 1 page of rules. I'd love to make this thing and don't desire to make anything off of it! It's just something I want for myself and would like to exist in the world.

Thank you for your help,

Ross (Mythic M)

 

[infojunky]

Ok, 1st stop, Cepheus Engine. Well technically it is the OGL content of Mongoose's 1st edition fork of Traveller as per their license with Marc Miller.

 

[Mythic Mountains]

Ok, 1st stop, Cepheus Engine. Well technically it is the OGL content of Mongoose's 1st edition fork of Traveller as per their license with Marc Miller.

I appreciate that but Cepheus is tied to the OGL! For me if I can attain permission to make this I will, otherwise I’ll have to go with an Indie game engine that is more open source or CC (it wouldn’t be CT then, of course)

 

[kilemall]

I don’t know that they license anything purely for CT anymore. I suspect best you could probably hope for is a free fan distribution exception.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

What I'd really like to do is create something close to "OSRIC" (OSRIC is an index and reference compendium of rules that condensed and formats 1e AD&D for use at the table), an index and reference compendium that is an aide-to-play, that provides the procedures that are Referee facing by phase of play, similar to the "Charts" book but with modern formatting, likely in A5, condensed and very compact and easy to use at the table, then release it for free as a tool online or printed at cost only.

As @infojunky stated Cepheus Engine is modelled after the Mongoose Traveller 1st edition rules and it is different from Classic Traveller. All the various Cepheus Engine SRDs and "core rules" are derived from Mongoose Publishing's Traveller Development Pack. It is to Cepheus Engine what the WotC 3.5/Modern SRDs are to all the D&D clones. Though gone now from Mongoose's website proper, I retrieved the final version from archive.org dated 2014. A copy of it is here on this site in Resources section.
There has been interest to get it closer to Classic but no one has done it. Maybe it is not possible. Since you have the Classic Facsimile, you can compare the differences between it and the Pack (and mebbe a copy of a Cepheus ruleset) to see if it can even be done.
>>>Traveller Development Pack here on COTI! <<<

 

[atpollard]

I have a vague recollection of Mongoose floating a balloon about the possibility of licensing CT supplements through some sort of FFE-Mongoose license … but I don’t know if the broader OGL concept ever gained any traction. Ultimately, the two paths that I know of are publishing OGL with the Traveller Trademarks filed off (like Cepheus) or an FFE approved FREE FAN FICTION (like the Starport Handbook).

 

[infojunky]

I appreciate that but Cepheus is tied to the OGL! For me if I can attain permission to make this I will, otherwise I’ll have to go with an Indie game engine that is more open source or CC (it wouldn’t be CT then, of course)

Ok, I gave you the easiest place to start.

If you want more than that you will need to open discussions with Marc Directly.

Rereading your ask, you could do it for your own edification and release it for free, and Marc will most likely be cool with that. Once cash is involved see my above comment.

Please note I don't speak for Marc, but I do speak from years of experience with how he deals with others.

 

[Ildefonse]

Hello! I reached out to the FFE email but hadn't heard back and so someone had suggested that I post here and see if someone could help me. I recently finished a long campaign of Classic Traveller as a new Referee coming from the OSR. I was really happy to have and use the Classic Facsimile, printed at cost, I found that very generous. I found that while it is a very easy read and well organized, it is not ideal for at table play. We use a rather simulationist expression of the game, measuring distances and travel times and such and trying to employ all the game procedures. For this purpose the closest thing I found was the Starter Set "Charts" Book.

Anyways, I have not found anything close to the easy format and usability at the table I was used to with D&D OSR products, especially say "Old School Essentials" for the 1981 D&D Basic Set.

What I'd really like to do is create something close to "OSRIC" (OSRIC is an index and reference compendium of rules that condensed and formats 1e AD&D for use at the table), an index and reference compendium that is an aide-to-play, that provides the procedures that are Referee facing by phase of play, similar to the "Charts" book but with modern formatting, likely in A5, condensed and very compact and easy to use at the table, then release it for free as a tool online or printed at cost only.

After I finished the campaign I met lots of people that really like Classic Traveller but also liked the idea of having a handy index and reference book, and I've met many people that found Classic Traveller too daunting to get into because of the many procedures in the Facsimile book (they also sometimes get confused as to whether they should use one of the other 3 initial or starter editions.) I think this would really invite people into Classic Traveller, especially younger people.

Anyways if anyone could help, I noted FFE's "Fair Use" policy, requiring any project be approved by FFE if it is more than 1 page of rules. I'd love to make this thing and don't desire to make anything off of it! It's just something I want for myself and would like to exist in the world.

Thank you for your help,

Ross (Mythic M)

An idea of excellent merit! If you embark on this I'd be happy to help with proofreading. There are enough differences between Cepheus Engine (in all its variations) and Classic Traveller that I'd start with your preferred version of Classic ('77 or '81), then go from there. If nothing else you'd have something for your personal use. As for getting permission from Marc: I'm not sure what the best way to contact him is, but others here may know.

 

[mike wightman]

Make sure you include the most important paragraph from CT 77 edition that makes the entire saving throw system make sense.
Not this one:

Saving Throw (also called throw): That dice roll required to achieve a stated effect. If only a number is stated, it must be rolled exactly. A number followed by a plus (such as 8+) indicates that that number or greater must be rolled. Similarly, a number followed by a minus (such as 3–) indicates that that number or less must be rolled.

but this one

Skills and the Referee: It is impossible for any table of information to cover all aspects of every potential situation, and the above listing is by no means complete in its coverage of the effects of skills. This is where the referee becomes an important part of the game process. The above listing of skills and game effects must necessarily be taken as a guide, and followed, altered, or ignored as the actual situation dictates.

Put another way, the skill descriptions in CT are examples, not definitive.

 

[Takei]

You might try posting the same question on the Mongoose Traveller board.

 

[casquilho]

Ok, I gave you the easiest place to start.

If you want more than that you will need to open discussions with Marc Directly.

Rereading your ask, you could do it for your own edification and release it for free, and Marc will most likely be cool with that. Once cash is involved see my above comment.

Please note I don't speak for Marc, but I do speak from years of experience with how he deals with others.

I thought Marc sold the Traveller IP to Mongoose recently. Did I misunderstand something?

 

[Marcatlas]

I appreciate that but Cepheus is tied to the OGL! For me if I can attain permission to make this I will, otherwise I’ll have to go with an Indie game engine that is more open source or CC (it wouldn’t be CT then, of course)

No game rules can be copyrighted. That's the secret WotC hoped wouldn't come out in the 2023 OGL debacle. Therefore, any game rule can be used in any game you create. So, 99% of the OGL can be used without attribution. Mainly watch for nouns that CAN be copyright.

 

[Mythic Mountains]

I don’t know that they license anything purely for CT anymore. I suspect best you could probably hope for is a free fan distribution exception.

Thank you!

 

[Mythic Mountains]

As @infojunky stated Cepheus Engine is modelled after the Mongoose Traveller 1st edition rules and it is different from Classic Traveller. All the various Cepheus Engine SRDs and "core rules" are derived from Mongoose Publishing's Traveller Development Pack. It is to Cepheus Engine what the WotC 3.5/Modern SRDs are to all the D&D clones. Though gone now from Mongoose's website proper, I retrieved the final version from archive.org dated 2014. A copy of it is here on this site in Resources section.
There has been interest to get it closer to Classic but no one has done it. Maybe it is not possible. Since you have the Classic Facsimile, you can compare the differences between it and the Pack (and mebbe a copy of a Cepheus ruleset) to see if it can even be done.
>>>Traveller Development Pack here on COTI! <<<

Thank you! My main reference of concern here is to respect the FFE Fair Use information Mr. Miller has provided. I have seen something similar to what you are saying where the 5.1 SRD or OGL 1.0 has been used "in parts" since it is CC but then the parts that would be OGL 1.0a are *changed slightly* and I think that's perfectly respectable, perhaps something could be done with the Cepehus SRD in this way to approximate the goals of a simulationist, Classic Traveller game "out of the box."

It's a good idea but my main concern is to respect the FFE policies. https://www.farfuture.net/FFEFairUsePolicy2008.pdf

 

[Mythic Mountains]

You might try posting the same question on the Mongoose Traveller board.

I'm interested how could they help? Wouldn't they be answering FFE? I might be lost too, this board was recommended it's associated with FFE right? (License holder for CT)

 

[Mythic Mountains]

I thought Marc sold the Traveller IP to Mongoose recently. Did I misunderstand something?

Not all of it. Here is his website on things like CT and older Traveller products. Mongoose has Mongoose Traveller.

 

[Mythic Mountains]

No game rules can be copyrighted. That's the secret WotC hoped wouldn't come out in the 2023 OGL debacle. Therefore, any game rule can be used in any game you create. So, 99% of the OGL can be used without attribution. Mainly watch for nouns that CAN be copyright.

I know what you mean and I think that's probably true, I want to respect the FFE Fair Use license. According to FFE he asks that people, without permission, share no more than a single page of rules at a time in a product.

I also know what you mean about using, say the Cepheus Engine even though it uses the OGL because WOTC *shouldn't win* a potential legal battle. Unfortunately, I think they've shown their hand and alas, we know that legal battles are not always just and besides that, affordable for the common citizen of the Imperium.

 

[Mythic Mountains]

No game rules can be copyrighted. That's the secret WotC hoped wouldn't come out in the 2023 OGL debacle. Therefore, any game rule can be used in any game you create. So, 99% of the OGL can be used without attribution. Mainly watch for nouns that CAN be copyright.

Now, if WOTC ever puts the OGL 1.0a into the CC like they did the OGL 1.0 and 5e SRD, then I think we are golden. Can't wait to see 1e products being made in their full language again other than the setting materials because of that!

 

[whartung]

According to FFE he asks that people, without permission, share no more than a single page of rules at a time in a product.

Are you sharing rules at all? I thought you were doing an index and cross reference, or something like that.

 

[Marcatlas]

Now, if WOTC ever puts the OGL 1.0a into the CC like they did the OGL 1.0 and 5e SRD, then I think we are golden. Can't wait to see 1e products being made in their full language again other than the setting materials because of that!

No need if you don't use their actual copyright stuff like named settings and proper names. So you can make and sell all the game compatible material you want and even say it is compatible with D&D 5 (or whatever they call it these days) with NO LICENSE. The OGL was a farce. That's why companies like Troll Lords dropped the OGL and is publishing the same game without it. They just change the copyrighted spell names and whatnot and no more license.