Low berth survival

[rancke]

According to p. 142 of the Core book, "...a Medic check is required upon opening the [low berth capsule], applying the passenger's Endurance DM to the check. If failed, the passenger does not survive."

Does this mean that if the ship is carrying a fully qualified medic (with Medic-2), a passenger with average endurance will die on a roll of 2-5? Or is a Medic check successful on a result of less than 8?


Hans

 

[Shonner]

A natural roll of 2 - 5 is death.

Or is a Medic check successful on a result of less than 8?

What kind of roll is that? This is Mongoose.

 

[rancke]

A natural roll of 2 - 5 is death.

Thank you. <sigh>

What kind of roll is that?

One with a nuanced skill resolution system where some tasks are easier than others; one where it doesn't take a skill of Medic-6 to keep people from dying in low berths.

This is Mongoose.

That's what I was afraid of.


Hans

 

[CosmicGamer]

According to p. 142 of the Core book, "...a Medic check is required upon opening the [low berth capsule], applying the passenger's Endurance DM to the check. If failed, the passenger does not survive."

Does this mean that if the ship is carrying a fully qualified medic (with Medic-2), a passenger with average endurance will die on a roll of 2-5? Or is a Medic check successful on a result of less than 8?

Unknown without the other variables.

What kind of roll is that? This is Mongoose.

Good question. Mongoose uses task difficulty, characteristic, and timing modifiers. A task typically is written as
Task Description: Skill, Characteristic, Timing, Difficulty
Example:
Using a mining drone to excavate an asteroid: Remote Operations, Dexterity, 1–6 hours, Routine (+2).

The description on page 142 does not provide these details. Aw, the poor GM actually has to do something?!

For me this is something the medic does every time there are low berth passengers and I think it should at least be a routine (+2) task.

Not sure if some other version of Traveller would help give a typical time for the task.

My thought is a decent doc would be level 2, have a +1 to their primary doc characteristic, and take their time. This would be a total +4, routine task another +2 for a 8 and success even on snakeyes. Chance of failure is if one is not taking their time and/or don't have a decent doctor.

Here are some more thoughts
Why not have a very qualified doc from the starport thaw out the popsicles.
The passenger might have instructions to contact a local doctor upon arrival instead of depending on the ships greasy engineer "I know machinery, let me give it a try."
Having an expert medical program give give a +1, or other assistance.
Situational modifiers

If a character has help, such as good tools, competent aids or other beneficial circumstances, he receives a +1 DM to his skill check.

maybe a higher tech low berth or a medical bay.
Aiding Another Character. "Nurse, monitor the occupants vitals while I revive them."

I'm sure there is something else I'm forgetting.

This is Mongoose.

That's what I was afraid of.

It's not like Mongoose came up with the concept of deadly low berths and lotteries.

 

[CosmicGamer]

Not sure if some other version of Traveller would help give a typical time for the task.

In Mongoose high guard it discusses a frozen watch and has this to say

6 turns to thaw, brief and get to the right place

That is 36 minutes but it includes a lot more than just the thaw.

Time frames table on page 50 of the core
10-60 minutes seams high since we know it is considerably less than 60 minutes.
1-6 minutes is the next step down. The example action

Applying first aid, basic technical tasks

 

[Condottiere]

Death is a fact of life, and low Low Berth survival rate is a Traveller Trope.

Otherwise we couldn't play Low Berth Lottery.

 

[Daidoji Dave]

My thought is a decent doc would be level 2, have a +1 to their primary doc characteristic, and take their time. This would be a total +4, routine task another +2 for a 8 and success even on snakeyes. Chance of failure is if one is not taking their time and/or don't have a decent doctor.
...
Having an expert medical program give give a +1, or other assistance.
Situational modifiers maybe a higher tech low berth or a medical bay.
Aiding Another Character. "Nurse, monitor the occupants vitals while I revive them."

Pretty much the above for me, especially the bold. I hadn't thought of making it Routine, but that does actually rationalize low berth travel if that's desired.

I'm sure there is something else I'm forgetting.

Skill chains, when available. Say a skilled Engineer (Life Support), with specialized equipment and taking his time, monitors the berths during travel, I'd give that skill check Effect to the defrost.

 

[Shonner]

one where it doesn't take a skill of Medic-6 to keep people from dying in low berths.

Low berths are not supposed to be safe. If you're not going to use setting rules, then heck... make the low berths medium berths or high berths. Crank up their tech levels so anyone can operate them (even the passengers themselves) without a doctor. Make the doctor a necromancer.

 

[Daidoji Dave]

Low berths are not supposed to be safe.

Well, no. But I'll meet the OP half-way. Unless you're following the "don't roll till it matters" rule, 5 or under on 2d6 comes out to a 30% death rate, which seems high, even compared to the setting info. Ideally I'd like to see the most common roll come out to sudden death only on snake-eyes, which is why I like applying other modifiers.

 

[Shonner]

5 or under on 2d6 comes out to a 30% death rate, which seems high, even compared to the setting info.

A referee should know when it makes sense to even do a roll. Players shouldn't cry if their character knows the risks. Just questioning this rule says an awful lot about a player.

 

[McPerth]

AFAIK there is no specified task in MgT for Low berth survival, and, while it's told that deaths are not unkown, noither it says it is as dangerous as in CT.

I agree with CosmicGamer on making it a task for the doctor, but I'd use the passenger end for stat, instead of the doctor's edu (after all, as Hans points in the OP, passenger's endurance DM is used).

What to do if the task is failed, if direct death or injuries, it's not clear...

Death is a fact of life, and low Low Berth survival rate is a Traveller Trope.

Otherwise we couldn't play Low Berth Lottery.

That's true in CT, but not in MT, just to cite the previous material I'm familiar with (even while in MT low lottery is told about, I agree it does not make sense given the rules applied, where death is quite rare an event, damage being more common). Not sure about MgT...

 

[Garnfellow]

I have to admit, the high mortality of low berth is the one sacred cow that I can't abide from older versions of Traveller. As a joke, it's sort of funny. But as both a game mechanic and setting construct, it's a bit hard to swallow.

For what it's worth, I would only call for a check under exceptional circumstances: an emergency revival in the middle of a gun fight, etc. That seems pretty consistent with the Mongoose skill system guidelines.

 

[atpollard]

In my experience, Low Berths simply don't get used:

• Players don't use them.
• I don't bother checking for Low Berth Passengers as a Free Trader.
• I don't include Low Berths in ships that I design.

So for me, the high mortality simply renders them irrelevant to the game.

 

[rancke]

For me this is something the medic does every time there are low berth passengers and I think it should at least be a routine (+2) task.

Not sure if some other version of Traveller would help give a typical time for the task.

My thought is a decent doc would be level 2, have a +1 to their primary doc characteristic, and take their time. This would be a total +4, routine task another +2 for a 8 and success even on snakeyes. Chance of failure is if one is not taking their time and/or don't have a decent doctor.

That works for me. Thank you very much.


Hans

 

[rancke]

A referee should know when it makes sense to even do a roll. Players shouldn't cry if their character knows the risks. Just questioning this rule says an awful lot about a player.

First of all, I wasn't questioning the rule, I was asking for clarification.

Secondly, as a player I might not question the rule (Depending on what sort of referee I had). But then I just wouldn't use low berths.

Thirdly, when I do question the setting information that low berth mortality is as high as that, I do it as a referee and setting-elaborator. The Imperium apparently has rules that forbid sharing staterooms on commercial ships but has no trouble allowing commercial ships to run with a significant death rate on Low Berths?!? I don't believe it. Players enjoy rolling for low passenger survival every time their ship reaches a new destination and casually accept several deaders every time? Not any player I would care to be in a game with. Players don't mind spending years developing a character only to lose it to a random die roll? I certainly would mind, and I don't think it says anything negative about me as a player.


Hans

 

[Vladika]

Rules as Written

Russian Roulette gives better odds.

There are few reasons to travel in a low birth, like fleeing something even more deadly.

 

[CosmicGamer]

I can also see the possibility of a setting working where low berths are still dangerous.
Only used by those desperate to get away from whatever
or
their life is crap and the grass is always greener

History is full of people doing dangerous things in the hopes of freedom, power, or money.

 

[aramis]

Death is a fact of life, and low Low Berth survival rate is a Traveller Trope.

Otherwise we couldn't play Low Berth Lottery.

One modified to be nearly absent in 4 other editions (MT, TNE, T4 and T20)...

 

[rancke]

One modified to be nearly absent in 4 other editions (MT, TNE, T4 and T20)...

And GT.


Hans

 

[Shonner]

Let go of Classic Traveller. It is just extra baggage that Mongoose Traveller knows nothing about. People paralyze themselves by hanging onto another game's rules.