Making SOC Count

[kilemall]

I see EQ being reflected in the character's social skills, rather than their SOC. As I stated earlier in this thread, I see SOC as how a random member of society would view the character if they were unaware of any personal reputation that character might have. SOC is what makes that "first impression" based on perceived societal norms reflecting social class. High SOC individuals might still get deference if they are in the right setting regardless of how truly socially inept they might be. They may lose that deference if they start showing their lack of charisma and acting like a jerk.

Pigvomit because of his SOC and manner of dress not hiding his SOC might get questioned a lot more in random law enforcement checks. If he bumps into law enforcement officers that he's chummy with, he may get a pass (personal reputation overriding the SOC reaction). If he's being harassed, his ability to charm, deceive, intimidate, whatever the officers will depend on how well he does on his rolls (success overrides the SOC reaction).

That's fine, whatever works for you and yours.

 

[flykiller]

I know I'm just asking for it, but... I've always thought there should have been a Charisma stat regardless of Social Standing.

might make it easier to understand social standing.

(off-topic observation - there's no reason traveller characters have to be limited to six stats.)

Pigvomit

heh. love it.

None of the things you quote imply charisma.

(shrug) ok.

 

[welsh]

Anyone who is struggling with the assumptions made concerning social rank in a class-based society would do well to look up the etymology of "villain."

 

[LeperColony]

This thread, and other discussions like it, highlight the principle difficulty with SOC as an attribute. Namely, it is not entirely clear what it in fact represents. Beyond its few mechanical implications (promotion DMs, starting credits, etc), there is little consensus on what it measures.

Personally, I primarily see it as the socio-economic situation of the character, rather than as a reflection of their manners, graces or charisma. But at the same time, I do tend to think of SOC values coming with certain behaviors, so my views are not entirely consistent.

 

[Taav]

Anyone who is struggling with the assumptions made concerning social rank in a class-based society would do well to look up the etymology of "villain."

Nice! Serf, villain, yeoman, farmer, and lord; I like it, from a structured social structure perspective, this actually works.

 

[Taav]

This thread, and other discussions like it, highlight the principle difficulty with SOC as an attribute. Namely, it is not entirely clear what it in fact represents...

Social standing [SOC] represents the inherent family relationship to the Emperor in the 3d Imperium. If you do not reside in the 3d Imperium it is assumed to be a myriad of different attributes. If you reside within the 3d Imperium when scaled against others within a subsector, sector, and domain it represents a hereditary [hierarchical] rank between you and the Emperor.

As posted elsewhere, caste and charisma are workable solutions within other social structures. However, if you are not a child of a Baron within the 3d Imperium do not "count" on a waiver for acceptance to the nearest Imperial Naval Academy.

 

[LeperColony]

Social standing [SOC] represents the inherent family relationship to the Emperor in the 3d Imperium. If you do not reside in the 3d Imperium it is assumed to be a myriad of different attributes. If you reside within the 3d Imperium when scaled against others within a subsector, sector, and domain it represents a hereditary [hierarchical] rank between you and the Emperor.

As posted elsewhere, caste and charisma are workable solutions within other social structures. However, if you are not a child of a Baron within the 3d Imperium do not "count" on a waiver for acceptance to the nearest Imperial Naval Academy.

That wasn't really my point. Everyone understands the book definition of SOC. The issue is that what it actually represents is more complicated, more involved, less clear, and differs from edition to edition and individual to individual.

Some people see SOC as a whole suite of social, economic and interpersonal factors all rolled into one attribute for game purposes. Others as a simple measurement of your place in a class based society, absent economic factors. But I think most people see SOC as a combination of social and economic factors.

But these variances make it difficult to talk about SOC because, unlike say, DEX, there's a lot more going on, and not everyone agrees what that is.

 

[creativehum]

Some people see SOC as a whole suite of social, economic and interpersonal factors all rolled into one attribute for game purposes. Others as a simple measurement of your place in a class based society, absent economic factors.

I'll offer another point no one will like.

Yes. Exactly. It means a dozen thing in application to people who have never met and never played together.

What matters is this (I truly believe this) the matter must be decided at a specific table, between specific players, in actual play. It isn't a matter that can be defined across the board. It isn't a matter that should be defined across the board. It can't be agreed by participants in an Internet conversation. (Though lots of terrific ideas and inspiration can be found by talking about it on the internet. At least for me.)

Ultimately, it will be specific incident found in play that no one could have determined or anticipated ahead of time that will sort out what SOC is as it applied and adjudicated, accreting details. Over time, one regular gaming table will determine SOC is like this. And over time another regular gaming table will establish it is like that.

It will start with what the Referee establishes as best he can... and then, as details are sorted out and the need for answers in play arise, more and more details will be nailed down and established.

There's not shame in this. It's how RPGs were played for years. And it works.

I say this not to shut down the conversation (not that I could, but I want to make it clear that's not my intent). My point is this is one way of looking at how SOC gets built for a Traveller setting.

We can only work with broad strokes either online or at the start of a campaign. We'll know more as months of actual play go by. Certainly that's how I'll be approaching it.

 

[Taav]

What matters is this (I truly believe this) the matter must be decided at a specific table, between specific players, in actual play.

Well said! In the interim, I will use SOC to roll waivers during character creation and you can use SOC for appropriate skill rolls necessary during game sessions. Wait!??