"Manila Galleon" long-haul trading?

[marginaleye]

I've been reading about the trans-Pacific Manila Galleons and the trans-Atlantic Treasure Fleet of Spain's colonial empire, and was wondering whether something similar could happen in the Traveller Universe. I'm envisioning a large and particularly well-equipped freighter (something like Oberlindes Lines' "Emissary"), making long (but infrequent) runs across entire sectors of rather sparsely-populated space, with only brief stops for wilderness refueling en route.

The big question that comes to mind is what sort of valuable cargo would justify making such voyages at Tech Level 11 or 12. I suppose one could come up with some kind of special "unobtainium" (perhaps an organic product that cannot be easily synthesized, like Herbert's "melange"), but anything that rare and valuable would be a significant addition to the Universe, and would have unexpected ripple effects. Furthermore, since Traveller tries to be hard(ish) science fiction, inventing "unobtaininum" that doesn't fit nicely into the periodic table of elements and/or flouts known physical processes cuts against the aesthetic grain.

I'm tentatively envisioning a "Manila Galleon" route set during the Interstellar War period, running from Terra out to a colony located far to Rimward. Terra would, at that point, be right at the cusp between Tech Levels 11 and 12. The Terrans had just discovered how to build Jump-3 drives, but lacked the ability to synthesize Zuchai crystals capable of storing and discharging the additional energy needed for three parsec jumps safely and reliably (the early prototypes tended to deviate from their planned "breakout" coordinates due to power fluctuations, and suffered catastrophic drive failures after making a few successful jumps). I believe it's canonical that natural Zuchai crystals tend to be longer-lasting than synthetic ones, so all this seems plausible.

At this point, Terra was establishing "throwaway" colonies far out to Rimward as "insurance." One of these colonies just happened to be established on, or close to, a planet that was well-stocked with large and particularly pure Zuchai crystals. Since the Terrans were desperate to build Jump-3 warships, they suddenly took notice of this hitherto-neglected colony, and began sending out freighters loaded with compact-but-valuable cargos (like electronic components and high-tech biomedical products), that returned carrying Zuchai crystals for the burgeoning fleet.

Obviously, as Terran technology advanced, their ability to synthesize Zuchai crystals improved. Furthermore, as they took territory from the Zira Sirku, they would have found sources of high-quality crystals that were closer to home (some with Vilani miners already on site, ready to be pressed into service). If, however, the "Rimward Zuchai Galleon" ran for several decades, that particular colony would receive significant support before being abandoned (probably at some point during the Rule of Man), and could become the nucleus of an "Solomani-flavored" polity within the otherwise-canonical Universe, free from the Confederation's more distasteful elements (notably its flagrant racism and neurotic totalitarianism), with access to an untouched frontier.

Apart from the nature of the cargoes being carried, are there any other issues in the starship economics and operation rules that would create problems for voyages of this kind?

 

[flykiller]

inventing "unobtaininum" that doesn't fit nicely into the periodic table of elements and/or flouts known physical processes cuts against the aesthetic grain.

elements above uranium are almost entirely short-lived. some decades ago there was talk of an "island of stable elements" very high up in the periodic table. one could say that they exist and are created only by very rarely large super-nova's.

conversely, apparently gold occupies a "gap" in the stellar fusion process and cannot be created in any significant quantity by fusion or nova's - if that were the only source then the entire planet earth would contain only a tablespoon of gold. apparently gold can be created in significant amounts only by the collision of two neutron stars. have no idea how that works (or how any of it escapes from THAT confluence of mass) but it would mean that gold is not only rare but fantastically scarce in the entire galaxy. maybe your galleon could do gold runs after all.

are there any other issues in the starship economics and operation rules that would create problems for voyages of this kind?

alien infections (when columbus returned from the new world his surviving crew brought back syphillis). space scurvy (eating the same freeze-dried goop every day). stir-crazy (the scenery never changes). religious conversions ("aloha snackbar!"). mutiny/barratry ("hey captain, we've been thinking ...."). love affairs / death feuds ("I hate you!" "well _I_ hate _YOU!_"). desertion ("there's a perfectly good planet right here!"). pets ("he followed me home! can I keep him please captain please!"). piracy. long-distance interdiction by local political forces seeking to discredit the existing government. cut-throat competition between galleon crews, families, corporations, and individual captains of individual ships, trying to make the other galleons fail. not to mention maintenance issues

 

[Timerover51]

It is an interesting idea, but your problem boils down to the time if would take. For safety reasons, the ship has to have only Jump-2 jump ability. I am putting together a sector to the Rimward of the Solomani area which is three full sectors plus to Rimward of Terra. At Jump-2, assuming that you are heading straight to Rimward of Terra, you might be looking at between 40 and 60 weeks of travel, one way, and likely a lot more. In the sector I am building, 3 to 4 parsecs between planets in not uncommon, so the ship has to be capable of making two Jump-2 in succession without refueling. You are looking at a possible two year or more voyage per trip.

 

[marginaleye]

Is there any canonical information about the uses, and availability, of stable superheavy elements in the OTU? Presumably, the distribution of these elements would be non-random -- star systems condensing from molecular clouds "enriched" with the heavy debris left behind by rare events like neutron star collisions be rare, and thus worth making long-haul trips for.

I got the impression, however, that in natural superheavy elements are too rare in the OTU to be put to any substantial practical uses, and the very limited quantities that are sometimes found generally end up in the Imperial Research Stations. The existence of "a worked-out superheavy elements extraction operation" on Gandr (according to the GURPS "Behind the Claw" book) suggests otherwise, however.

Doesn't "superdense" armor become available at Tech Level 12? Surely, the breakthrough in gravitic technology that makes superdense armor possible would also have various industrial applications. Perhaps there were industrial processes in the Tech Level 9 through 11 range that depended on small quantities of superheavy elements, and these processes were rendered obsolete when cheaper and more convenient gravitic-based "superdense-spinoff" alternatives became available.

 

[marginaleye]

Yes, I played around with the Traveller Map website (using Terra as a starting point, and various destinations at the Rimward edge of map) and got similar travel times. That is, indeed, a long voyage, but the OTU seems to be quite tolerant of long voyages -- with a jump-3 starship, it takes 54 jumps to make a one-way trip from Regina to Capital, and 50 jumps to get from Capital to Terra. Wikipedia, moreover, says that the historical Manila Galleon made "one or two round-trip voyages per year," and in the 19th Century, whaling ships sometimes had voyages that lasted for three or four years! If there were two "Rimward galleons," then a shipment of unobtainium would arrive at Terra annually.

Book 2 says that starships only need to be overhauled annually. Establishing adequate maintenance facilities at the destination colony to Rimward would be a high priority, but wouldn't be a particularly difficult (the OTU is full of low-population worlds with Class B starports). Given the vast loneliness of the wilderness to be crossed, and the value (both strategic and monetary) of the "galleon" and its cargo, a lower-performance backup jump drive would be a must. I'm also envisioning the crew being kept fairly small, both to reduce life support costs, and to allow extra-spacious accommodations to reduce stress (double-sized staterooms, perhaps, in game terms). All the passengers would be carried in low berths.

 

[Condottiere]

The story takes place in the backdrop of Trantor's rise from a large regional power to a galaxy-wide empire, unifying millions of worlds. This story occurs around the year 11,000 AD (originally 34,500 AD, according to Asimov's early 1950s chronology), when the Trantorian Empire encompasses roughly half of the galaxy.
The independent planet Sark exploits the planet Florina and derives its great wealth from kyrt, a versatile and fluorescent fiber that cannot be grown elsewhere. The relationship between the two planets is analogous to the situation between European imperial powers and their colonies during the 19th century: the Florinians are forced to work in kyrt fields and are treated as an inferior race by the Sarkites. Attempts to break the Sark monopoly and grow kyrt on other worlds have so far been unsuccessful. Meanwhile, Trantor would like to add the two worlds to its growing empire.
There is a hidden irony in Sark's dominion over Florina: clear parallels to the American South growing cotton with slave labor. The Florinians are one of the lightest-skinned people in a galaxy in which racial categories seem to have been forgotten except by the people of Sark. One of the characters, Dr. Selim Junz, comes from Libair, a planet with some of the galaxy's darkest-skinned people and feels sympathy for the Florinians.[1] (The planet Libair takes its name from Liberia, a country in Africa, which would explain a dark-skinned genetic inheritance. Liberia was also settled by freed slaves from America.) Also, Asimov chose the name of "kyrt" to be rather similar to "cotton" and explains that it is a form of cellulose.
The possible destruction of Florina is predicted by Rik, a "spatio-analyst," who has had his mind manipulated by a "psychic probe" device, resulting in gross amnesia. When Rik gradually starts remembering his past, it produces a political crisis involving Sark, Florina, and Trantor. Rik, a native of the Earth, had discovered that Florina's sun is about to explode into a nova because it is being fed carbon by one of the outer-space "currents of space," supposedly rather like the currents of the ocean.
It is also revealed finally that the special energetic wavelength of light that is being emitted by Florina's sun is what causes the very high-quality kyrt fiber to grow there, which is why kyrt cannot be grown on other planets: stars going nova are very rare, and stars with habitable planets that go nova are rarer still.
Because losing Florina would mean losing the only source of its vast wealth, there is strong resistance from Sark to accept the message. However, when it is explained that the wealth is already lost since the conditions that enable kyrt to grow can be easily duplicated anywhere now that they are understood, the inhabitants become more amenable. When Trantor offers to buy out the entire planet for a very high price, the offer is readily accepted.
Even though there is not yet a full Galactic Empire, Trantor controls the now largely-radioactive Earth. The idea of evacuating Earth is mentioned, but that is strongly rejected by Rik. He insists that it is the original planet of the human race, but that is not generally accepted.

 

[kilemall]

I did a back of the envelope study re: starship engineering components, and found that even assuming shipping costs of Cr1000 per parsec, that a 100 parsec trip 'just costs' Cr100,000 per ton, which for starship drives costing millions per ton can be 5% or less of the total cost.

So whatever it is needs to cost 20% or less of the transport cost per ton and be rare, distant and desirable enough to merit the effort.


A J-3 ship will likely average 2.5 parsecs per 2 weeks, that is assuming frontier refueling each jump. So 50 weeks works out to 62.5 parsecs- plenty distant for most people.

CR 62,500 per ton, an expeditionary ship with 1000 tons of cargo would be making a Cr62,500,00 lift at rates, not counting passenger profits or higher fees per ton.

I would almost assume any such venture would be a charter affair, 50% bond deposited beforehand with the other 50% and a bonus for success and non-damaged goods/passengers.

A fun thing to do is make it be a tea clipper race, the cargo is worth more delivered 'fresher', and so doing things like having double jump fuel capacity cuts out refueling or allows shortcuts through 'dry' systems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Tea_Race_of_1866

You could go to a higher Cr3000 or even Cr5000 per ton per parsec, success only, for fast transits, or graduated payouts for fastest, second fastest, etc.

With such high stakes, a space clipper organization might set out with staging refueling operations through several systems, saving the clipper ship weeks at a time as they take on preposition-ed tanks.

And the opportunity for competing teams to sabotage each other's efforts.

How interesting, the web entry says they used displacement tonnage too, 50 cubic feet, or roughly 10% of a Traveller dton.

 

[Fovean]

A fun thing to do is make it be a tea clipper race, the cargo is worth more delivered 'fresher', and so doing things like having double jump fuel capacity cuts out refueling or allows shortcuts through 'dry' systems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Tea_Race_of_1866

You could go to a higher Cr3000 or even Cr5000 per ton per parsec, success only, for fast transits, or graduated payouts for fastest, second fastest, etc.

Extremely cool idea. Yanked!

 

[McPerth]

I've been reading about the trans-Pacific Manila Galleons and the trans-Atlantic Treasure Fleet of Spain's colonial empire, and was wondering whether something similar could happen in the Traveller Universe. I'm envisioning a large and particularly well-equipped freighter (something like Oberlindes Lines' "Emissary"), making long (but infrequent) runs across entire sectors of rather sparsely-populated space, with only brief stops for wilderness refueling en route.

The big question that comes to mind is what sort of valuable cargo would justify making such voyages at Tech Level 11 or 12. I suppose one could come up with some kind of special "unobtainium" (perhaps an organic product that cannot be easily synthesized, like Herbert's "melange"), but anything that rare and valuable would be a significant addition to the Universe, and would have unexpected ripple effects. Furthermore, since Traveller tries to be hard(ish) science fiction, inventing "unobtaininum" that doesn't fit nicely into the periodic table of elements and/or flouts known physical processes cuts against the aesthetic grain.

I'm tentatively envisioning a "Manila Galleon" route set during the Interstellar War period, running from Terra out to a colony located far to Rimward. Terra would, at that point, be right at the cusp between Tech Levels 11 and 12. The Terrans had just discovered how to build Jump-3 drives, but lacked the ability to synthesize Zuchai crystals capable of storing and discharging the additional energy needed for three parsec jumps safely and reliably (the early prototypes tended to deviate from their planned "breakout" coordinates due to power fluctuations, and suffered catastrophic drive failures after making a few successful jumps). I believe it's canonical that natural Zuchai crystals tend to be longer-lasting than synthetic ones, so all this seems plausible.

At this point, Terra was establishing "throwaway" colonies far out to Rimward as "insurance." One of these colonies just happened to be established on, or close to, a planet that was well-stocked with large and particularly pure Zuchai crystals. Since the Terrans were desperate to build Jump-3 warships, they suddenly took notice of this hitherto-neglected colony, and began sending out freighters loaded with compact-but-valuable cargos (like electronic components and high-tech biomedical products), that returned carrying Zuchai crystals for the burgeoning fleet.

Obviously, as Terran technology advanced, their ability to synthesize Zuchai crystals improved. Furthermore, as they took territory from the Zira Sirku, they would have found sources of high-quality crystals that were closer to home (some with Vilani miners already on site, ready to be pressed into service). If, however, the "Rimward Zuchai Galleon" ran for several decades, that particular colony would receive significant support before being abandoned (probably at some point during the Rule of Man), and could become the nucleus of an "Solomani-flavored" polity within the otherwise-canonical Universe, free from the Confederation's more distasteful elements (notably its flagrant racism and neurotic totalitarianism), with access to an untouched frontier.

Apart from the nature of the cargoes being carried, are there any other issues in the starship economics and operation rules that would create problems for voyages of this kind?

While reading your post this came to my mind:

From AHL rules, page 36 (incident IV):

The wines for the Imperial table have always been imported from Terra (old Earth), partly due to tradition, partly due to snobbery, but mostly because the finest varieties of grapes have never adapted well beyond the limited areas where they are found on Earth

(...)

the regular wine runs from Terra to the capital had been assigned to two converted scout cruisers of the Azhanti High Lightning Class.

Not full convoys, neither along unsettled space, but...

Also, there are various mentions in MT about Margaret opening routes from Delphi to Hiver space across the Hinterworlds. This may be closer to the Manila Galleons or Spanish Tresure fleet you're looking for, as the space crossed is less secure, and it's more likely to be in large convoys

For safety reasons, the ship has to have only Jump-2 jump ability.

Just curious, why so?

Se that the wine runs are performed by J5 cruisers...

 

[whartung]

The wines for the Imperial table have always been imported from Terra (old Earth), partly due to tradition, partly due to snobbery, but mostly because the finest varieties of grapes have never adapted well beyond the limited areas where they are found on Earth

I was going to suggest something agricultural as well. Spices, or game, or something like that.

Simple example here, we (Southern California) have a Philly Cheese Steak sandwich chain that imports pretty much everything but the meat from the east coast. Notably, considering every other sandwich store is baking their own, the bread.

But all striving for the authentic Philly Cheese Steak experience. I have not been to Philadelphia to get a cheese steak, so I can't attest to its authenticity. But there are other stories of places duplicating New York water for local pizza restaurants, etc.

Taste is one of the most specific and memorable of senses. Even after years, folks can tell if something tastes right or wrong, even if they have not had the dish for some time.

So, it makes sense that if folks are going to import anything, it'll be some exotic delicacy.

 

[Timerover51]

Just curious, why so?

The Terrans had just discovered how to build Jump-3 drives, but lacked the ability to synthesize Zuchai crystals capable of storing and discharging the additional energy needed for three parsec jumps safely and reliably (the early prototypes tended to deviate from their planned "breakout" coordinates due to power fluctuations, and suffered catastrophic drive failures after making a few successful jumps).

The original post indicates that Jump-3 drives were not reliable enough for a large number of jumps. The ship would have to be Jump-2 as it would be making a lot of jumps.

Se that the wine runs are performed by J5 cruisers...

The Jump-5 cruisers were much later than the original poster is thinking.