My apologies if this has come up before, but I didn't see a thread addressing this feat anywhere. One of my players has expressed an interest in taking the Martial Training feat, but we're a little confused about how it's supposed to work. Does it start giving +1 BAB/4 levels from when you take the feat, or does count your existing character levels? And should we count all character levels, or just the non-Marine/Barbarian ones? I ask the latter question because the thought of an Marine 11/Academic 1 w/ an extra +3 BAB for Martial Training sounds a wee bit unbalancing....
Martial Training Feat
- Thread starter Linwood
- Start date
notagoodusername
SOC-13
It works from level 1, irrespective of when you take it (kinda like the way Stamina increases retroactively if you up Constitution), so if you take it at level 8 it adds 2 to your BAB. And you should count all character levels.
Hope this helps!
Shane
Hope this helps!
Shane
While I agree with you on how the Martial Training Feat should be applied I see no indication of Ability Increases applying retroactively for such things as Stamina or total Skill Points. The 3.0 PHB and CoCd20 both specifically state as an example that Skill Points are not retroactively gained due to Ability Increase.
Not that my characters won't mind if this is so.
<Asu flexes her muscles after a tuf workout & level/CON increase> W00H00! Grrrrrrrrr!
<As she gets 12 + 1d6 Stamina and 1 Lifeblood all at once> Casey
In the D20 System, all changes of this nature are retroactive with the exception of Skill Points based on INT increases. This is clarified in the v3.5 Player's Handbook as well as the 3E FAQs.
With that in mind, characters with this feat gain a bonus to their BAB of +1 for every four character levels they possess. It increases as their character level increases.
In theory, with the better definition of character level in the Revised ruleset, available for free online in the v3.5 Revised SRD, such an increase would only occur based on Hit Dice totals, not actual character levels. Unfortunately, T20 blurs that by not providing racial hit dice, but rather grants straight-out bonuses to Stamina and sometimes Lifeblood, making this estimation harder to determine. Whether one counts alien levels or not is up to the the individual Referee.
Hope this helps,
Flynn
With that in mind, characters with this feat gain a bonus to their BAB of +1 for every four character levels they possess. It increases as their character level increases.
In theory, with the better definition of character level in the Revised ruleset, available for free online in the v3.5 Revised SRD, such an increase would only occur based on Hit Dice totals, not actual character levels. Unfortunately, T20 blurs that by not providing racial hit dice, but rather grants straight-out bonuses to Stamina and sometimes Lifeblood, making this estimation harder to determine. Whether one counts alien levels or not is up to the the individual Referee.
Hope this helps,
Flynn
/me shrugs
It just seems cheesy to me to add for example in Asu's case about double her Stamina due to an increase in CON modifier by 1 (25 + 12 + 1d6 instead of 25 + 1d6). That is a significant increase in her ability to take damage, too much so IMO. [EDIT] In fact she should have had 10 points added earlier. So she would have about 50 Stamina.
That wrecks the character concept.
* [/EDIT]
That and Star Wars d20 2nd Edition page 38 states "if the Constitution modifer increases, the new bonus only applies to vitality points from this level forward". This is how I've always played it and T20 is IMO based more on the 3.0 SRD and Star Wars d20 than 3.5 D&D.
Casey
* Kaiju-Asu however will gladly take all the Stamina she can get, stomping model buildings is ruf work!
It just seems cheesy to me to add for example in Asu's case about double her Stamina due to an increase in CON modifier by 1 (25 + 12 + 1d6 instead of 25 + 1d6). That is a significant increase in her ability to take damage, too much so IMO. [EDIT] In fact she should have had 10 points added earlier. So she would have about 50 Stamina.
That and Star Wars d20 2nd Edition page 38 states "if the Constitution modifer increases, the new bonus only applies to vitality points from this level forward". This is how I've always played it and T20 is IMO based more on the 3.0 SRD and Star Wars d20 than 3.5 D&D.
Casey
* Kaiju-Asu however will gladly take all the Stamina she can get, stomping model buildings is ruf work!
From the 3.0 SRD, upon which T20 is based:
http://www.opengamingfoundation.org/srd/srdabilityscores.rtf
"Constitution
If a character's Constitution changes enough to alter his or her Constitution modifier, his or her hit points also increase or decrease accordingly at the same time."
I wasn't aware of the Star Wars Revised variation on this. I've only read the PHB and the Revised PHB on these matters. Pg 9 of the PHB, the last sentence under Constitution, repeats the above statement from the SRD. The same line is repeated in the Revised PHB and SRD as well.
Seeing as how the SRD is referenced in the OGL at the end of the THB, that's why I chose to go with that interpretation.
However, that being said, the Referee is the one that ultimately makes that decision, as it's their game. So long as everyone's having fun, it's all good!
Happy Gaming,
Flynn
http://www.opengamingfoundation.org/srd/srdabilityscores.rtf
"Constitution
If a character's Constitution changes enough to alter his or her Constitution modifier, his or her hit points also increase or decrease accordingly at the same time."
I wasn't aware of the Star Wars Revised variation on this. I've only read the PHB and the Revised PHB on these matters. Pg 9 of the PHB, the last sentence under Constitution, repeats the above statement from the SRD. The same line is repeated in the Revised PHB and SRD as well.
Seeing as how the SRD is referenced in the OGL at the end of the THB, that's why I chose to go with that interpretation.
However, that being said, the Referee is the one that ultimately makes that decision, as it's their game. So long as everyone's having fun, it's all good!
Happy Gaming,
Flynn
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I recently purchased D20 Modern, and it specifically states on page 39 (the section about level advancement):
Strange that d20 Star Wars does things different?
Strange that d20 Star Wars does things different?
Yes that line is also in Star Wars d20 2nd edition (modified for vitality / wounds and missing the "at the same time"). I took that to mean adjust hit points based on the new modifer starting from the new level since the hit points are increasing due to the level increase (i.e. at the same time).
Star Wars d20 is closed content so can't be directly referenced by non-WotC books* but it is a d20 core book. The similarities are there IMO (vitality / wound points, some of the skills, similar classes, etc.). Once I actually looked at it I think it's a better match with T20 as a core book than what I previously suggested, d20 Modern.
/me nodsHowever, that being said, the Referee is the one that ultimately makes that decision, as it's their game. So long as everyone's having fun, it's all good!
Agreed.
Casey
* though wounds / vitality is now open content in Unearthed Arcana
Not really IMO. Star Wars d20 models damage differently (Vitality / Wounds) and d20 Modern originally was going to use the same model*. It instead went with the D&D model of hit points only among other things. T20 uses a similar concept as Vitality / Wounds except Lifeblood points are lost more easliy than Wound points.
Casey
* for example the pulp "mini" d20 game which was a early d20 Modern prototype in Polyhedron uses Vitality / Wounds
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Ahh, thanks Casey.
By the way, what do you think of the variant damage systems in UA? Could any of them be adapted to T20?
By the way, what do you think of the variant damage systems in UA? Could any of them be adapted to T20?
I've been meaning to do a thread on Unearthed Arcana, Mutants & Masterminds, and other d20 / OGL goodies (or find the house rules thread).
In general UA is nice in that not only does it present a rules variant but it discusses why you might want to adopt the variant and what effect it would have on the rest of the game.
If you want to add defense bonuses ala d20 Modern they are in there and progression is based on broad categories based on armor proficiencies. Easily adaptable.
Armor as damage reduction might work, though it may need some tweaking with T20's AR. Personally I prefer the version in the new Conan OGL game which also has some new rules for damage to armor and weapons.
I like the saving throw check for fast damage results similar to Silhouette but I haven't had time to check how different it is from the version in Mutants & Masterminds. I think that version gives a wider range due to having more factors go into the final DC used.
Casey
In general UA is nice in that not only does it present a rules variant but it discusses why you might want to adopt the variant and what effect it would have on the rest of the game.
If you want to add defense bonuses ala d20 Modern they are in there and progression is based on broad categories based on armor proficiencies. Easily adaptable.
Armor as damage reduction might work, though it may need some tweaking with T20's AR. Personally I prefer the version in the new Conan OGL game which also has some new rules for damage to armor and weapons.
I like the saving throw check for fast damage results similar to Silhouette but I haven't had time to check how different it is from the version in Mutants & Masterminds. I think that version gives a wider range due to having more factors go into the final DC used.
Casey
We tried the fast damage rules, and found that it made an encounter last over twice as long, because it's easy to make the DCs that are given, and if you fail, it's often by less than ten.
It works better with the M&M high damage, so that the DCs are higher and it's possible to miss by ten or more.
Just some of our observations,
Flynn
It works better with the M&M high damage, so that the DCs are higher and it's possible to miss by ten or more.
Just some of our observations,
Flynn
Thanks for the clarification, guys!
Side note -- I agree w/ Casey that the SW D20 system seems a better match to T20 than D20 Modern, now having dabbled in both. Myself, I've borrowed the SW rule about Fortitude saves after each Wound/Lifeblood damage result; I think it's a better mechanic to model the potential effects of shock than T20 uses.
Side note -- I agree w/ Casey that the SW D20 system seems a better match to T20 than D20 Modern, now having dabbled in both. Myself, I've borrowed the SW rule about Fortitude saves after each Wound/Lifeblood damage result; I think it's a better mechanic to model the potential effects of shock than T20 uses.
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