Mechs in Traveller?

[far-trader]

As to grav vehicle performance in different gravity...

I've always played that air/rafts are popular with the Scout service because they are useful in a wide varity of gravity and atmosphere.

I see vehicle grav modules being rated and built for 1 gravity. On worlds with less gravity the weight of the vehicle is reduced in direct proportion with the loss of performance so the vehicle still works the same. Simplistic but easy.

Naturally such vehicle grav modules are as useful in surface micro-gravity as they are in sub-orbital micro-gravity, that is they have no useful thrust. This is why most of the Seeker conversions swap the air/raft for the miner buggy, a six or eight wheeled crawler built for prospecting on asteroids.

Somewhere its mentioned that the best way to travel over a micro-gravity surface is heavy and slow with as much ground contact as possible, or by hops if using legged propulsion. This might have been inspired by the Apollo lunar mission broadcasts though and that's hardly micro-gravity. Our moon is about a size 2 world in Traveller (though by gravity its closer to a size 1).

 

[far-trader]

I think my answer above, typing while you posted, answers some of your questions slyen2. I'll try the others here.

You don't need an atmosphere to have gravity though the two usually go hand in hand. Its more you need significant gravity to keep an atmosphere. It also seems you need a strong magnetic field or solar wind will erode the atmosphere over time, effectively blowing it away into space.

An asteroid, at least any normal asteroid, won't have an atmosphere because it lacks both signigicant gravity and a strong magnetic field.

Now of course such an anomolous asteroid (one with an atmosphere) would be worth investigating. Is it natural or maybe artificially maintained through gravplates and shielding? Lots of good adventure possibilities.

 

[marvo]

Originally posted by slyen2:
one thing i was told by my father and a vetran on CT was that Grav repels gravity and minupulates it for movement but only for the existing gravity. What about mechs being used on a 0g world or on an astroid?

That's the way I understand it too. But on a 0g world a mech or a grav tank would pretty useless. If it's 0g it's also going to have 0 atmosphere. That atmosphere is the only thing stopping a starship of any size getting close to you.

 

[Spiderfish]

Unless they have some sort of close range anti starship defence system...

 

[slyen2002]

thats why they have Pulse Lasers

no but they would mostlikly be equiped like fighters.

the question for the astaroid was inspiered by The Twilight Zone's episode #7 "The Lonely" where, if you don't know, a man was sentance to life impresentment on an astroid with reagular supply drops and news from earth about once every month. on the supply trip the captain is a friend of the convict's and brings him this Android to keep him sane for a while more and to give him something to do. the Android also has the capacity to learn also. well the guy puts it together and finds out the Android is a "she". he is in the proccess of teaching "her" the supply ship returns once more and delivers news: he can go home. well the guy have become so attached with the robot thinking that it was actually alive, and to make the man undersand that the robot wasn't alive he shot it in the face revialing its core and the robot ceased to function. not to mention the delima of not being able to take "her" with him because of feul constrants and the problem of the aproching meter storm that was going to come in a few hours the guy got on the ship when he realized that it was just a machine like all the others he had on the astroroid.

 

[Tikon2000]

Why would you choose mechs over grav tanks? Well, why would you choose a revolver over a laser pistol? Access to technology. It's always mentioned in Traveler that diferent planets have different tech levels. Maybe mechs are a viable alternative till the production of grav tanks.
For mech game systems I prefer Heavy Gear & Jovian Chronicles (Gundam) type campaigns. Where they have plausible explanations for their mech tech.
As for weight issues, wouldn't they be able to fabricate ultra light frames and armor materials at appropriate TL's.
Although I agree past certain TL's that grav tanks would outstrip mechs. But they would still have some advantages. Infantry types being more adaptive than a floating gun platform.

 

[Blue Ghost]

What, no one read my posts?

 

[slyen2002]

i would take a revolover over a laser pistol...

as for the grav tank it can (as well as convetional tanks) deal damage to a mech. though at lower tech levels this is minimal. think of this: would you send an Abehrams against a giant humaniod walker?

 

[marvo]

Originally posted by Spiderfish:
Unless they have some sort of close range anti starship defence system...

In T20 the Mech would be a vehicle and the starship, well a starship. The +/- 5d damage increase/reduction in favour of the starship would be an overwhelming advantage.
As someone pointed out, the Mech could be armed similar to a fighter, but then we get into the question of Mech/Fighter advantages. I guess you could design a fighter in a mech shape, but then it would be a dispersed structure.

 

[slyen2002]

don't manuver drives go faster than Grav?

 

[Slink182]

Originally posted by slyen2:
think of this: would you send an Abehrams against a giant humaniod walker?

Why not? Weapon TL standards aside, a 155mm HEAPDS is the same regardless of the delivery system (eg., a mecha toted "hand" cannon versus a mounted tank gun). If the argument goes that the mecha has faster reaction times, then that's a fallacy - any gearing/feedback system that would allow for a short reaction time in a mecha's servo could also be applied to a vehicle mount (turret gearing rings), and likely at lower cost to boot.

What tanks have is simplicity of design (armored box with gun) and a low profile, something that mechs cannot boast. In a combat environment, the most desired weapons and vehicles are the easiest to maintain (for a given TL) and the simplest to operate (minimum requirements in training), yet still delivering good killing capacity.

Mechs are like highly specialized modern combat fighters - complex, requires lots of maintenance, and a highly trained/proficient pilot.

 

[marvo]

How about someone take a Poll on this subject?

 

[slyen2002]

already set one up sort of...

its based off of wether or not you agree or disagree with the idea of mechs in Traveller.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Grrr... I did this analysis.

 

[slyen2002]

????

 

[Flynn]

slyen2,

Blue Ghost made the same analysis and drew the same conclusions on page 8 or 9 of this thread that Slink182 made at the beginning of page 11. I think that's what he's refering to.

Blue Ghost, is that correct?

Hope this helps,
Flynn

 

[vutpakdi]

I think that what it comes down to is that sylen2 is absolutely convinced that mechs make sense in Traveller, and there are a number of people who think that the idea doesn't given grav tech. I don't think that either side is going to convince the other, so why don't we just drop the argument?

It's sort of like a religious argument or a political argument except that, in this case, we're arguing using evidence/arguments that really are ground in "made up stuff".

Ron

 

[Blue Ghost]

Flynn; yeah

I'm kind of neutral on mechs. I think the real issue comes down to practicality. Traveller has always prided itself on realism, and as cool as I think mechs are I just don't see them fitting in the official story material.

Still, a set of rules addressing them would be kind of cool

 

[Slink182]

Personally, I'm with Blue Ghost. Cool, yes... fitting for Traveller, no (ok, not to the extent that Sylen2 is proposing, anyway).

And I still believe that Sylen2 is using the wrong game system if he wants mecha.

 

[slyen2002]

i have probly what will be my last question on this topic

givin that with the published works we are dealing with a Empire that spands 11,000 worlds and it is one of the highest technological empires in the universe. givin that the time of the 5th Frontier war and the 1100 year was in about 5000 AD. givin that and the idea that you could create you're own universe that is in any time period. Tell me what is so unappealing about mechs in a differant universe? is it the fact that they are big? is it the fact that its little more than an oversized robot? Is it that at TL 12 (i think) grav actually is pefected enough to go onto vehicles transforming the tank into an aircraft? I mean Isn't Traveller supposed to be a game of high Science Fiction? if so why ban them out of the game for not being "realistic" when come on some very unrealistic things are in the game as it id, like the Pulse laser. a laser is a cohernet beam of light and the only way to achieve a "pulse" is to flip it on and off rapidly which i think the rules says that you can only fire once per turn with a laser (haven't read all the way through starship combat because i haven't needed it yet). Also if you look at the Tech Tree you get lasers early on but when you get plasma weapons they're made obsolete with still being backpack mounted powerplants which by tech level 15 rolls around the Imperium should have designed some more compact verson.

anyway that should be about it.