Mechs in Traveller?

[redwalker]

Several points:

1) When Gasaraki was mentioned as a source, I assume it was mentioned only with respect to size. I love Gasaraki as a story, although I normally shun giant robot stories. I couldn't actually run as Gasaraki-based campaign without several hours of music as cool as the opening and closing themes, though.

Gasaraki would be an interesting source for many things, but the mechs might require strange drugs or psionic talent to operate. Also you might have to slow down play to explain why the patron cut his eyes out with a katana.

2) The impractical, low-tech nature of mechs isn't necessarily out of place, considering that in Traveller nobles practice with cutlasses, as do Marines.

3) I thought about combining gravitics and legs. The legs would be a psychological war/crowd control measure. Start with an ordinary GCarrier, then add numerous clawed legs. They can be used to locomote, but their main function is to twitch around, demoralize opponents, and be deployed as lethal anti-personnel bludgeons in crowd-control and riot-control applications. (Of course, a microwave gun or high-pitched sonic cannon would be more efficient.)

 

[slyen2002]

and i though he only cut his eyes...

also i have gotten very far in the series (only disk 3) but i still like the "fakes" ive seen and the "origanal" was pretty cool also...

 

[slyen2002]

what about the pilots going insane? what of the computers going insane?

 

[marvo]

Yes, there are some pretty cool mechs in anime. My award for worst mech design has to be the ones in the final Matrix movie. The pilot sits totally exposed so the slightest piece of shrapnel will take down the whole thing. Must be the only mech that a well aimed pebble from a sling could take down.

 

[clementk]

Originally posted by slyen2:
what about the pilots going insane? what of the computers going insane?

Aside from just roleplaying I suggest ye olde Call of Cthulhu insanity rules from either original (BRP) or d20 book (the insanity rules are the same) or the slightly more generic version in Unearthed Arcana. Main thing is defining the severity of anything that might lead towards insanity and then what to do if a roll if failed.

CT doesn't really have a willpower, mental endurance, or similar stat anyway so a SAN stat would fit in just fine. You'd have to either adapt it to 2d6 or just use the insanity rules as is if you have the dice for it. (most of a standard d&d polyhedral set)

If you don't need that much detail some sort of check. Again some sort of SAN stat would be helpful here.

HTH,
Casey

 

[slyen2002]

APU units get shot to peices by snipers! those where the mechs in Martix 3

 

[slyen2002]

weren't we having a debate about it earlier in this string about wheter mechs are worth it with grav vehicles or not?

 

[Nurd_boy]

Originally posted by slyen2:
weren't we having a debate about it earlier in this string about wheter mechs are worth it with grav vehicles or not?

I skick with my opinion...once you develop grav-control, humaniod mechs (for combat) become obsolete....besides, a humaniod form is way too tall(the lowest posible siloette is always better than being 5 stories tall !!!), too many 'weak-pionts'(knees, hips, feet, etc).

but i will admit, on a world where a highly developted ritualized combat between 'warrior-nobles / houses' exists...sure, but not in general imperial use...light scout runners maybe, mining suits, high-pressure expiditionary protective devices (scout explorer units).

we have a deep-sea suit now that is like what i imagine..

 

[thorn]

I only have ONE question....

Are mechs really a necessary addition to the Traveller universe?

I mean, there are RPGs based around mechs, for gearheads, and in those campaign settings, hey, they fit. Do they belong wandering the streets and prowling the alleys on Regina?

I think not.

Thanks for my moment.

 

[clementk]

Originally posted by Nick Thorn:
I only have ONE question....

Are mechs really a necessary addition to the Traveller universe?

This is just a game, nothing's necessary to add to it.

If you don't want them in YTU cool. Some folk do want them in their Traveller universe and are working out ways to fit them in setting and rules wise. Also cool. It's a big 'verse.

FWIW even in the narrow US usage, Battledress and Cargo Loaders fall under the category of Mecha. It's not all Gigantor and Gundams. ^_^

Example: Shirow's landmates or the bug things from the Ghost in the Shell manga, tv shows, and new movie are very doable IMO alongside BD. Both technology wise and for not dominating the game.

As always YMMV and have fun!
Casey
[EDIT]I can type honest![/EDIT]

 

[Spiderfish]

People can have whatever they want (to a point of course).

IMTU things are often very different and not always by design. Sometimes I assume something about the Imperium or a certain faction which is wrong, but I sometimes prefer that assumption and dont change MTU when I find what its "supposed" to be like.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Armor is armor, whether it's an M1-A2 Abrams tank or a VF-1S Valkyrie of Macross. Myself, I lean towards the practicalities of using mechs, and that is I don't think they're worth it.

Could a mech really compete with an X, Y or Z-Gun armed G-carrier? Given enough armor or fancy doo-hickey defenses, then maybe. Though I would think a traditional mech (one represented in Japanese Manga/Anime), one armed with traditional missiles and rapid fire howizter, would be hard pressed to fight off a grav tank. Not that it couldn't be done, but if the players use the hard baseline technology from whatever fiction it is they're using, then it becomes problematic.

Having said that Traveller is about sci-fi adventuring, so why not toss a few mechs into the works?

Remember, Traveller was supposed to be a framework game so that people could visit far flung or alternate worlds where things science-fiction could come to life.

Additionally, there may actually be some use for an oversized metal man (or thing of your choice). Whether it's armed with a "handheld" meson gun (handheld for a mech, anyway) and black gobe, or an energy sword with a bunch of horn-like tributary blades sticking out at the end is really up to the gaming group.

When all is said and done I'm not a big fan of an "official" codification or ruling as to their place in the Imperium (or Zho, Aslan or Varg spce).

If one really wants mechs in their TU, then picking up a copy of GURPS Mecha would be a good place to start. Using the construction tables there, templated onto GURPS Traveller, would make a good start for a CT, MT or TNE translation.

"You see a fifty foot human-formed tank stomping your way."
"I whip out my LMG, hit the deck, and ask someone to act a loader. What're the modifiers, and what's it armed with?"
"I wouldn't worry about the mods. I mean, you can hit the thing, but you won't do much damage. And it's toating an EMG that shoots grav-cycle sized rounds at 30% the speed of light"

"Huh... what're the DMs again?"

 

[slyen2002]

one thing i was told by my father and a vetran on CT was that Grav repels gravity and minupulates it for movement but only for the existing gravity. What about mechs being used on a 0g world or on an astroid?

 

[savage]

Earlier discussions leaned towards TL12 mechs. That was a tech point where they would've been most effective. But messing with T20 and mechs makes me lean towards TL14+.

Assume that a Grav Tank and Mech are equally matched. Which is more terrifying for the opposing force or civilians. Perhaps integrating them is the key to success.

Savage

 

[Blue Ghost]

Using both CT and GURPS tech level comparison charts, and dipping into the GURPS Mecha book, it would seem that Mechs range between TL8 (gear and gas engine stuff) to TL12, though the weapons they carry seem to peak out at TL14.

I think part of the purpose of the mech (like all weapons) is to act as an extension of the human body. I think part of the theory behind a Mech is that, in some cases, it's supposidly easier for the pilot/driver to handle and manipulate, and move like a human body, such that the pilot/driver can act like an oversized soldier or warrior on the battlefield. Or that the suit itself, because it can move like the human form (coupled with its size and tougness), has somekind of innate advantage on the battlefield.

That's not always the case. A lot of Anime/Manga sometimes make it a point in the fiction that such vehicles (or suits) are hard to control, and require the most skilled and highly trained individuals. Compare that to the driver-loader-gunner-gunner/commander crew of a T-80 or M1, where everyone has a job to do, and is coordinated. I remember years and years back there was a trend in Anime/Manga showing several vehicles (with several pilots) coming together to form one massive mech ("Super Beastial Machine Dancougar" or "Voltron" as two examples). In those instances much coordination was said and implied to be able to operate the thing, but it's unknown as to how the skill and coordination were implimented (it is afterall only sci-fi

).

So given that let's assume that a mech crew and a tank crew are similarly coordinated. If that's the case, then the superiority question would boil down to simple hardware. Using DGP "101 Vehicle" stats we see a TL14 Trepida GravTank (turreted) is armed with a single Fusion RFX-14 gun (no mention of a coaxial gun, but an X, Y, or Z gun, or VRF Gauss might be a safe assumption), has approximately 1g acceleration (9.8 m/s^2) with a top speed of 1000kph, and has 40G armor in Mega Traveller-ese.

For a mech let's assume equivalent electronics (performance wise), and equivalent armor and adequate power. The tank beats out the Mech's mobility by being able to have almost jet fighter like performance. The mech which, unless it's similarly equipped for high speed flight, is relegated to the ground, in which case you might have a kind of WW1 or WW2 like scenario of a machinegun nest or AAA battery trying to gun down a Mustang, Zero or Meschersmitt (weapons depending).

The Grav Tank's advantage over a traditional aircraft is that it can traverse its turret. Then again presumably the mech can merely pivot in place, giving each vehicle the same opportunity to fire at one another. Thus each has approximately equal opportunity to fire at the other.

So, it boils down to TL. If both are the same tech level, then it's nearly an even match. I think it really comes down to targetting and weapon type, because each vehicle pretty much targets the other in like fashion. That is, to me anyway, it seems like a tank on tank situation is no different from a mech on mech or tank on mech situation. The guy who can get the better shot has a better chance of coming out on top.

But there again it depends on what kind of hardware each is toating. The tank mounted RFX Fusion Gun is a real nasty (and high penetrating) energy weapon. That verse the GURPS Mecha ironmongery which floats around the TL8-10 area. But that's GURPS, which means the Gauss weapons listed there are probably more TL11 or TL12 Traveller equivalents. Ditto with the plasma cannons, high end LASERS and particle beams, and other energy hardware.

So again it would appear to be an even match, given tech level equivalent hardware. Therefore the next layer of decision of who would be the victor comes down to skill level and luck of the dice.

When all is said and done I don't think a mech (or anything else for that matter) needs to be grav powered to defeat a grav tank. It'd help, but if it can spot, target, hit and do damage like the opposition, then both tank and mech are evenly matched

But that's just a thought experiment. It'd be interesting to see an actual scenario played between a grav tank and a TL equivalent mech.

*edited for clarity*

 

[Spiderfish]

You dont get 0G worlds Sylen.

A world or asteroid will always have some gravity. Hell even your body has gravity though virtually none compared to large celestial bodies.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I think he means a freefall environment.

 

[Straybow]

We all know that "zero-gee" is really "microgravity."

Most asteroids are too small to have enough gravity to compact themselves into a spherical shape. Even those that do have the minimal mass to circularize themselves can be treated as none. If you can achieve escape velocity with your leg muscles, it's "ZG."

 

[Spiderfish]

Sure ok I was being pedantic. But the Grav vehicle does have "some" gravity to work with. Probably not enough though...

 

[slyen2002]

I was meaning like on a space shuttle today, once you get into space there is no gravity.

as for planets having no grav, i agree all planets have gravitty but most of it is so small i don't see how you would be able to use grav on them. an example would be the moon.

besides don't you need to have an amtosphere for gravity?

also how come you cant have a Astroid with and atomsphere?