Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
It seems that your Martial Arts skill would also cover martial-arts-type-specialized weapons...unless a character has to have a separate skill for those.
Melee Combat....STR....CT...
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Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
It seems that your Martial Arts skill would also cover martial-arts-type-specialized weapons...unless a character has to have a separate skill for those.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
I've already "kinda" got a penetration roll--without acutally requiring a separate roll.
For example, a STR-8 character in my game, with Dagger-1 would make a Standard UGM (8+) roll to hit another character.
2D +mods for 8+.
Let's say this guy is trying to strike an opponent wearing Cloth Armor (and let's say the opponent is fighting without a weapon and has Brawling-1).
The mods of this roll are:
(+1) Possible UGM natural ability mod for STR.
+1 Dagger skill.
+2 Advantageous STR mod with Dagger.
(-2) Possible Weakened Blow mod.
+2 Short Range mod.
-1 Opponent's Brawling skill.
-1 MT Block mod.
(-2) Possible extra action mod (multiple action penalty).
If our hero hits, he'll roll damage.
Dagger damage is: 2D +mods.
Damage mods--
-4 Armor mod (Cloth vs. Dagger)
-5 Armor mod (Base AV for Cloth Armor)
+2 Advantageous STR mod
So, if our hero slices the bad guy across the torso with his dagger, damage will be 2D -7.
What's the point of all this? To show you that the "penetration" is built into the system (because I'm using Striker AVs).
On our hero's 2D damage throw, if he throws 7 or less, his dagger will not penetrate the Cloth armor. If he throws 8+, he'll penetrate. His damage will range from 1 point to a max of 5 points.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
I've already "kinda" got a penetration roll--without acutally requiring a separate roll.
For example, a STR-8 character in my game, with Dagger-1 would make a Standard UGM (8+) roll to hit another character.
2D +mods for 8+.
Let's say this guy is trying to strike an opponent wearing Cloth Armor (and let's say the opponent is fighting without a weapon and has Brawling-1).
The mods of this roll are:
(+1) Possible UGM natural ability mod for STR.
+1 Dagger skill.
+2 Advantageous STR mod with Dagger.
(-2) Possible Weakened Blow mod.
+2 Short Range mod.
-1 Opponent's Brawling skill.
-1 MT Block mod.
(-2) Possible extra action mod (multiple action penalty).
If our hero hits, he'll roll damage.
Dagger damage is: 2D +mods.
Damage mods--
-4 Armor mod (Cloth vs. Dagger)
-5 Armor mod (Base AV for Cloth Armor)
+2 Advantageous STR mod
So, if our hero slices the bad guy across the torso with his dagger, damage will be 2D -7.
What's the point of all this? To show you that the "penetration" is built into the system (because I'm using Striker AVs).
On our hero's 2D damage throw, if he throws 7 or less, his dagger will not penetrate the Cloth armor. If he throws 8+, he'll penetrate. His damage will range from 1 point to a max of 5 points.
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
WJP, what about without the dagger, though? I thought that was your initial question.
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
WJP, what about without the dagger, though? I thought that was your initial question.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
You're right. That's was my initial question. I don't know why I picked dagger in the example. I opened up the Traveller Book, and it was the first hth weapon I saw.
But, what I wrote for dagger applies to "hands" as a weapon too--it's just different DMs.
We'd have to go with a STR-9 guy to get the Adv bonus, so the attack roll would go like this:
STR-9 Brawling-1
Opponent at Short Range, weaing Cloth armor. Opponent has Brawling-1.
2D +mods for 8+.
(UGM roll, Standard Difficulty)
Absolute To-hit Throw mods:
+1 Brawling skill level.
+1 Short Range mod.
-1 MT Block mod.
-1 Opponent's skill level.
Situational To-hit Throw mods:
+1 If STR is 9+ (could fall with wounds).
-2 If STR is 6- (could fall with wounds).
+1 If UGM natural ability (STR) mod made on natural throw.
-2 If this attack is a Weakened Blow.
-2 If this attack is an extra action (mutiple action penalty).
If this dude hits, his damge roll for "Hands" would be:
1D +mods
Situational Damage Throw mods:
+1 If attacker STR is 9+ (could fall with wounds).
-2 If attacker STR is 6- (could fall with wounds).
-5 If opponent hit where protected by armor (Base AV).
-4 If opponent hit where protected by armor (Cloth armor vs. Hands).
+1 If opponent hit where not protected by armor (Nothing vs. Hands).
-2 If this attack is a Weakened Blow.
I use a hit location chart. This opponent is where cloth armor that protects his torso. So, if the opponent is hit in the chest, our brawler could do no damage to him--his "hands" can't penetrate the protection provided by Cloth armor.
At best, his damage roll is:
1D -8
(+1 for STR, -9 for armor DMs)
(Hands cannot penetrate Cloth armor).
See...the "penetration" is built into the damage roll--no need for a second roll.
But, if our brawler can land a blow on a body part that is not protected by armor, damage is possible. The best roll he could have is:
1D +2
Damage range of 3-8.
(+1 for STR, +1 for no armor)
-----------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------
Let's say the opponent had a heavy leather jacket on (Jack armor), covering his torso and arms. If the opponent is hit in the arm, the best our brawler could do with his hands is:
1D -1
Damage range: 0-5
(+1 for STR, -1 Jack armor, -1 Hands vs. Jack)
-----------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------
And, what if everything goes against our brawler?
---> He's taken some blows himself, and his STR drops to STR-6. (-2 to damage)
---> He's tiring in the fight, having used all his combat swings. (-2 to damage)
---> Opponent is hit in the torso, and Jack armor protects him. (-2 to damage).
1D -6
As you can see, this guy can't "penetrate" jack armor in order to hurt the opponent when our brawler is both wounded (STR 6-) and tired (all combat blows expended).
What he can do is (1) try to hit the guy in a non-protected body area (or roll head or legs on the hit location chart), or (2) he can save his energy an not attempt any more than one action during the round (one roll to-hit).
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
You're right. That's was my initial question. I don't know why I picked dagger in the example. I opened up the Traveller Book, and it was the first hth weapon I saw.
But, what I wrote for dagger applies to "hands" as a weapon too--it's just different DMs.
We'd have to go with a STR-9 guy to get the Adv bonus, so the attack roll would go like this:
STR-9 Brawling-1
Opponent at Short Range, weaing Cloth armor. Opponent has Brawling-1.
2D +mods for 8+.
(UGM roll, Standard Difficulty)
Absolute To-hit Throw mods:
+1 Brawling skill level.
+1 Short Range mod.
-1 MT Block mod.
-1 Opponent's skill level.
Situational To-hit Throw mods:
+1 If STR is 9+ (could fall with wounds).
-2 If STR is 6- (could fall with wounds).
+1 If UGM natural ability (STR) mod made on natural throw.
-2 If this attack is a Weakened Blow.
-2 If this attack is an extra action (mutiple action penalty).
If this dude hits, his damge roll for "Hands" would be:
1D +mods
Situational Damage Throw mods:
+1 If attacker STR is 9+ (could fall with wounds).
-2 If attacker STR is 6- (could fall with wounds).
-5 If opponent hit where protected by armor (Base AV).
-4 If opponent hit where protected by armor (Cloth armor vs. Hands).
+1 If opponent hit where not protected by armor (Nothing vs. Hands).
-2 If this attack is a Weakened Blow.
I use a hit location chart. This opponent is where cloth armor that protects his torso. So, if the opponent is hit in the chest, our brawler could do no damage to him--his "hands" can't penetrate the protection provided by Cloth armor.
At best, his damage roll is:
1D -8
(+1 for STR, -9 for armor DMs)
(Hands cannot penetrate Cloth armor).
See...the "penetration" is built into the damage roll--no need for a second roll.
But, if our brawler can land a blow on a body part that is not protected by armor, damage is possible. The best roll he could have is:
1D +2
Damage range of 3-8.
(+1 for STR, +1 for no armor)
-----------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------
Let's say the opponent had a heavy leather jacket on (Jack armor), covering his torso and arms. If the opponent is hit in the arm, the best our brawler could do with his hands is:
1D -1
Damage range: 0-5
(+1 for STR, -1 Jack armor, -1 Hands vs. Jack)
-----------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------
And, what if everything goes against our brawler?
---> He's taken some blows himself, and his STR drops to STR-6. (-2 to damage)
---> He's tiring in the fight, having used all his combat swings. (-2 to damage)
---> Opponent is hit in the torso, and Jack armor protects him. (-2 to damage).
1D -6
As you can see, this guy can't "penetrate" jack armor in order to hurt the opponent when our brawler is both wounded (STR 6-) and tired (all combat blows expended).
What he can do is (1) try to hit the guy in a non-protected body area (or roll head or legs on the hit location chart), or (2) he can save his energy an not attempt any more than one action during the round (one roll to-hit).
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
WJP, I think I see your process.
Sigg, how about in your system? Would a penetration check work?
Sigg, how about in your system? Would a penetration check work?
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
WJP, I think I see your process.
Sigg, how about in your system? Would a penetration check work?
Sigg, how about in your system? Would a penetration check work?
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Hi there Fritz.
I don't use penetration as such any more. I use the T4/T20 "armour removes damage dice then damage" system.
This means I can still describe what the wound would have been and therefore its location, but the armour prevents the worst from happening.
Two rolls*, that's all I want to be making to resolve a combat action.
A penetration roll could be added, but I prefer the dice deduction method because it works fast in play.
* there is the need for an additional roll of 1d on an exceptional success to determine which characteristic takes the whole of the damage (I apply the first blood rule on an exceptional success rather than the first wound - I've read too many reports of people not even realising they've been shot for the first blood rule to be considered realistic anymore).
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Hi there Fritz.
I don't use penetration as such any more. I use the T4/T20 "armour removes damage dice then damage" system.
This means I can still describe what the wound would have been and therefore its location, but the armour prevents the worst from happening.
Two rolls*, that's all I want to be making to resolve a combat action.
A penetration roll could be added, but I prefer the dice deduction method because it works fast in play.
* there is the need for an additional roll of 1d on an exceptional success to determine which characteristic takes the whole of the damage (I apply the first blood rule on an exceptional success rather than the first wound - I've read too many reports of people not even realising they've been shot for the first blood rule to be considered realistic anymore).
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
By the way, the way I allow degree of success to influence damage is based on the natural roll of the dice, before DMs are applied.
Depending on the natural to hit roll, one of the rolled damage dice can be replaced - after it has been rolled - by a set amount of damage instead:
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">natural replacement
dice roll damage
8 2
9 3
10 4
11 5
12 6</pre>[/QUOTE]
Depending on the natural to hit roll, one of the rolled damage dice can be replaced - after it has been rolled - by a set amount of damage instead:
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">natural replacement
dice roll damage
8 2
9 3
10 4
11 5
12 6</pre>[/QUOTE]
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
By the way, the way I allow degree of success to influence damage is based on the natural roll of the dice, before DMs are applied.
Depending on the natural to hit roll, one of the rolled damage dice can be replaced - after it has been rolled - by a set amount of damage instead:
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">natural replacement
dice roll damage
8 2
9 3
10 4
11 5
12 6</pre>[/QUOTE]
Depending on the natural to hit roll, one of the rolled damage dice can be replaced - after it has been rolled - by a set amount of damage instead:
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">natural replacement
dice roll damage
8 2
9 3
10 4
11 5
12 6</pre>[/QUOTE]
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Ah, that's right! I'd forgot your method. So you would be stuck with some kind of DM for STR.
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Ah, that's right! I'd forgot your method. So you would be stuck with some kind of DM for STR.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
All I've done, really, is modify the damage roll.
Damage is rolled on the number of dice indicated by the weapon.
And, this damage is modified by various factors.
....DM.... CT Armor mods are subtracted or added to the damage roll (see charts in CT).
....DM.... Striker Armor values are subtracted from the damage roll.
....DM.... CT Advantageous or DisAdvantageous STR is subtracted or added to the damage roll (see charts in CT).
....DM.... CT Weakened Blow mod is subtracted to the damage roll when appropriate (see charts in CT).
....DM.... Multiple Action penalty is subtracted from the damage roll (I use multiple actions in my game, and every action after the first is penalized with a -2DM).
PENETRATION: Any amount of damage that makes it past these DMs (and ends up a positive number)...this indicates that the armor has been penetrated, and damage is reduced appropriately.
So, given this system, damage will vary, depending on if the attacker is fight-fatigued (weakened blow), is strong or weak physically (Adv/DisAdv DM), hits opponent's body location protected by armor (the two armor DMs), or if this attack is rushed (multiple action penalty).
Some, all, or none of these DMs may apply to a damage roll.
--------------------------------
---------------------------------
The other thing I didn't mention is that one die in every damage roll is typically applied randomly to a target's stats (any other damage dice are applied as the defender wishes).
When the attack throw is even, we don't bother with the hit location chart as the hit is assumed to have hit the target's torso.
But, if the attack throw is odd, we roll on the hit location chart.
1D
1...Head
2...Torso
3...Left Arm
4...Right Arm
5...Left Leg
6...Right Leg
HEAD--
When the Head is hit, disregard the highest damage die rolled (other than the random die), and count the random die twice as if it were two dice showing the same result. Head hits require two die randomly placed on a target's stats.
TORSO--
Torso hits require a single random die of damage applied to the target's stats.
ARMS--
Arms do not require a random die of damage.
LEGS--
Legs require a single random die of damage only 50% of the time.
Spectacular Success on a combat to-hit throw? Add one random damage die to that required (Head hits will have three random dice; Torso hits will have two random hits; Arm hit will have one random hit; and Leg hits will have one random hit).
Note that adding random dice does not mean that a weapon's total number of damage dice is increased. It only means that more of these dice are applied randomly.
So, if total damage dice is 1D (Hands), then the maximum number of dice rolled for damage is still 1D, but that 1D can be applied to the target's stats randomly.
==================================
I'm like Sig. I want two rolls in combat: A to-hit throw and a Damage throw.
Each of these two throws is modified by various factors.
I even get away without having to roll hit location half the time by using the rule where all "even" numbered attack throws hit the torso.
(But, on the "odd" throws, I've got to roll a third die...the hit location roll).
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
All I've done, really, is modify the damage roll.
Damage is rolled on the number of dice indicated by the weapon.
And, this damage is modified by various factors.
....DM.... CT Armor mods are subtracted or added to the damage roll (see charts in CT).
....DM.... Striker Armor values are subtracted from the damage roll.
....DM.... CT Advantageous or DisAdvantageous STR is subtracted or added to the damage roll (see charts in CT).
....DM.... CT Weakened Blow mod is subtracted to the damage roll when appropriate (see charts in CT).
....DM.... Multiple Action penalty is subtracted from the damage roll (I use multiple actions in my game, and every action after the first is penalized with a -2DM).
PENETRATION: Any amount of damage that makes it past these DMs (and ends up a positive number)...this indicates that the armor has been penetrated, and damage is reduced appropriately.
So, given this system, damage will vary, depending on if the attacker is fight-fatigued (weakened blow), is strong or weak physically (Adv/DisAdv DM), hits opponent's body location protected by armor (the two armor DMs), or if this attack is rushed (multiple action penalty).
Some, all, or none of these DMs may apply to a damage roll.
--------------------------------
---------------------------------
The other thing I didn't mention is that one die in every damage roll is typically applied randomly to a target's stats (any other damage dice are applied as the defender wishes).
When the attack throw is even, we don't bother with the hit location chart as the hit is assumed to have hit the target's torso.
But, if the attack throw is odd, we roll on the hit location chart.
1D
1...Head
2...Torso
3...Left Arm
4...Right Arm
5...Left Leg
6...Right Leg
HEAD--
When the Head is hit, disregard the highest damage die rolled (other than the random die), and count the random die twice as if it were two dice showing the same result. Head hits require two die randomly placed on a target's stats.
TORSO--
Torso hits require a single random die of damage applied to the target's stats.
ARMS--
Arms do not require a random die of damage.
LEGS--
Legs require a single random die of damage only 50% of the time.
Spectacular Success on a combat to-hit throw? Add one random damage die to that required (Head hits will have three random dice; Torso hits will have two random hits; Arm hit will have one random hit; and Leg hits will have one random hit).
Note that adding random dice does not mean that a weapon's total number of damage dice is increased. It only means that more of these dice are applied randomly.
So, if total damage dice is 1D (Hands), then the maximum number of dice rolled for damage is still 1D, but that 1D can be applied to the target's stats randomly.
==================================
I'm like Sig. I want two rolls in combat: A to-hit throw and a Damage throw.
Each of these two throws is modified by various factors.
I even get away without having to roll hit location half the time by using the rule where all "even" numbered attack throws hit the torso.
(But, on the "odd" throws, I've got to roll a third die...the hit location roll).
mctesla
SOC-10
Sorry for the late response. 
WJP wrote:
Fritz88 wrote:
The number of combat blows limited to END, and then the weakened blow penalty kicking in, seemed like a fun place to "play" without causing too much disruption to CT. The damage bonus part (which is what prompted this whole topic) came in as part of the same sort of discussion that WJP had with his players. Our solution was reasoned a little differently, and we wanted to minimize the changes to CT combat as much as possible. We have a few players who still disapprove of anything that isn't pure D6 for damage... {grumble grumble adds and subtracts grumble}
WJP wrote:
Correct-- there would be a different skill for those weapons, just as dagger is a different skill, etc. We felt that fit with the "feel" of CT best-- Brawling and Martial Arts were both sort of oddball skills in that respect.
Fritz88 wrote:
Thank you.
The number of combat blows limited to END, and then the weakened blow penalty kicking in, seemed like a fun place to "play" without causing too much disruption to CT. The damage bonus part (which is what prompted this whole topic) came in as part of the same sort of discussion that WJP had with his players. Our solution was reasoned a little differently, and we wanted to minimize the changes to CT combat as much as possible. We have a few players who still disapprove of anything that isn't pure D6 for damage... {grumble grumble adds and subtracts grumble}
mctesla
SOC-10
Sorry for the late response.
WJP wrote:
Fritz88 wrote:
The number of combat blows limited to END, and then the weakened blow penalty kicking in, seemed like a fun place to "play" without causing too much disruption to CT. The damage bonus part (which is what prompted this whole topic) came in as part of the same sort of discussion that WJP had with his players. Our solution was reasoned a little differently, and we wanted to minimize the changes to CT combat as much as possible. We have a few players who still disapprove of anything that isn't pure D6 for damage... {grumble grumble adds and subtracts grumble}
WJP wrote:
Correct-- there would be a different skill for those weapons, just as dagger is a different skill, etc. We felt that fit with the "feel" of CT best-- Brawling and Martial Arts were both sort of oddball skills in that respect.
Fritz88 wrote:
Thank you.
The number of combat blows limited to END, and then the weakened blow penalty kicking in, seemed like a fun place to "play" without causing too much disruption to CT. The damage bonus part (which is what prompted this whole topic) came in as part of the same sort of discussion that WJP had with his players. Our solution was reasoned a little differently, and we wanted to minimize the changes to CT combat as much as possible. We have a few players who still disapprove of anything that isn't pure D6 for damage... {grumble grumble adds and subtracts grumble}
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