MGT Only: Mercenary Second Edition Playtest - Force Organisation

[aramis]

I


The seriously odd thing is that the US Army used Sections too in certain cases. I was with the 111th Army Group (Det) and several Engineering units had section listed in their TOE, and actively refereed to them as such.

In old US usage a Section was an intermediate between an Inf Plt and squad, each section having 2 Squads. That has long since been outmoded.

Only if, by "long since" you mean "since the late 1990's" - the Alaska Army National Guard still used sections of 2 squads with assigned Section Sergeants in at least some of the units in the early 90's. It was in phase-out when I entered the army in '87, but was not completely phased out through at least 1994, when members of my gaming group, squad leaders themselves, made mention of their section sergeants.

Note that Traveller has always used:
Fireteam (ø)
Squad (•)
Section (••)
Platoon (•••)
Company (|)
Battalion (||)
Regiment (|||)
Brigade (X)
Division (XX)
Corps (XXX)
Army (XXXX)
Army Group (XXXXX)


It would be nice if the half-company (••••), aka Column, got mentioned as an optional unit as well. At present, it's not used much save for a few third world nations that use 8-10 columns to the battalion, and the two I saw that used that as a non-ad-hoc didn't use companies at all - each column was 8-10 squads of 8-10 men.

The only truly universal levels seem to be the Company of 100-200 men, the squad of 8-20, the Regiment of 2000-5000. And those are the medieval prototypes. (Battalion is derived from medieval as well, being 1/3 of the forces present at a battle for a given side... but could be as low as one company or as high as 30.)

Even then, there's a huge raft of variance in how things get organized - The US had sections as a default standing unit level from the 1820's to the early 1970's, but the fire team as a formal organizational element were post vietnam (but use as a tactical unit dates back earlier); even still, while formalized, it's assignment is usually local decision at the platoon or company level.

In all seriousness - avoiding Britishisms would be a good practice. Use of the much more broadly utilized NATO standards, and the (already canonical for the OTU) US 1970's era hierarchical structure makes for better compatibility with prior editions.

 

[Condottiere]

Companies tend to be manned at a monkey spheric level, which makes them the most flexible formation.

 

[Kilgs]

Not to be a pain but... this is Third Imperium. They could call the squad a "monkey-fist" if they wanted to, amirite?

 

[Dagrill]

Continuing with our release of playtest material for Mercenary Second Edition, Planet Mongoose presents the rules for organising your new recruits into a cohesive force!
Again, all comments welcomed.

Hi Matt,

I like the Striker concept of building from the fire team, rather than the section/squad, it let's you include or exclude NCO's in the team.

Kind Regards

David

 

[Dagrill]

It can be fixed easily - delete the reference to section (a section is, in all the systems I've read about, comprised of 2-3 squads, if the term is used at all), change the clause "any military force" to "most modern military forces".

Have you read any English publications? In the UK a Section is 2 Fire teams and an NCO ( 9 personnel), ther are no squads.

Kind regards

David

 

[rancke]

Note that Traveller has always used:
Fireteam (ø)
Squad (•)
Section (••)
Platoon (•••)
Company (|)
Battalion (||)
Regiment (|||)
Brigade (X)
Division (XX)
Corps (XXX)
Army (XXXX)
Army Group (XXXXX)

I don't recall ever seeing the section mentioned anywhere. The description of the 4518th in JTAS9, p. 12-21 has platoons made up of three squads and companies made up of three platoons and battalions made up of five companies (That's for infantry; the grav tanks are organized a bit differently). The units in Troops in the FIFTH FRONTIER WAR (in JTAS10) starts a the battalion level and goes up as your list shows, except that the Army Group isn't mentioned.

The units mentioned in Mercenary, p. 19 are fire team/vehicle/gun, squad, platoon, company, battalion, regiment, brigade, force, and division.

Perhaps it would be best to detail the most common organization(s) for mercenaries in the Third Imperium but emphasize that this is just one of many different schemes. Possibly (if there is room for it) mention a couple of other schemes. I don't think it would be worth cutting something else for that, though.


Hans

 

[Dagrill]

Do we want this level of detail/players worrying about this, or would it be better to assume that is all 'handled'?

It gives a use for tactics (military).

Also a reason to target command & communications (referred to as C3 in some publications),

the Greek types can always moan at the Spartan types for having to many officer's...

Regards

David

 

[aramis]

I don't recall ever seeing the section mentioned anywhere. The description of the 4518th in JTAS9, p. 12-21 has platoons made up of three squads and companies made up of three platoons and battalions made up of five companies (That's for infantry; the grav tanks are organized a bit differently). The units in Troops in the FIFTH FRONTIER WAR (in JTAS10) starts a the battalion level and goes up as your list shows, except that the Army Group isn't mentioned.

The units mentioned in Mercenary, p. 19 are fire team/vehicle/gun, squad, platoon, company, battalion, regiment, brigade, force, and division.

Perhaps it would be best to detail the most common organization(s) for mercenaries in the Third Imperium but emphasize that this is just one of many different schemes. Possibly (if there is room for it) mention a couple of other schemes. I don't think it would be worth cutting something else for that, though.


Hans

Striker page 10.

[quote="Striker p.10']from the squad, or may be one of the men in one of the teams of the squad.
4. Section: A section consists of two squads. Players are not required to
group their squads into sections, but have the option. A section has an NCO, who
may be either one of the squad NCOs or a separate individual.
5. Platoon: A platoon [...][/quote]

 

[rancke]

Striker page 10.

Right you are. Sections are listed as an option in Striker. I've never seen them mentioned in any Third Imperium setting material though.


Hans

 

[Condottiere]

Probably because it sounds too old fashioned for a scifi setting.

 

[aramis]

Right you are. Sections are listed as an option in Striker. I've never seen them mentioned in any Third Imperium setting material though.


Hans

They were used in several 3rd party licensed bits during the CT era.

Sections are also used in the artillery organization of the 3518th, Battery Epsilon. See SMC, 37 & 39.

 

[Piper]

...Well, that is the beauty of the system as it stands. While we feature a 'standard' organisational model to follow, there is absolutely nothing to stop players organising their forces into any system they want.

They could have basic organisational structures of 22 men called Teapots, if they wanted, with 47 Teapots to a Serving Spoon, and 7 Spoons to a Grand Dinner Service.

You really can use this system any way you want (alternatively, if you see something you cannot do, let me know and we'll make changes!).

I'm willing to follow this through to the combat system to see how it pans out but I'm seeing a possible issue.

Let's say I want to form a teapot consisting of 2 four-man rifle units with a two-man support unit. This corresponds (roughly) to a modern rifle squad. It seems as though this unit might suffer some inefficiency or does it simply require an additional roster?

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

Have you read any English publications? In the UK a Section is 2 Fire teams and an NCO ( 9 personnel), ther are no squads.

Kind regards

David

Minor point, but it's 8 men in a the current british section. The corporal in charge in also charlie fire team leader. I think the change happened about the same time the Warrior came into service (It may be possible that the IFV wasn't able to hold the old 9 man section? not sure)

 

[McPerth]

and I seem to recall the whole infantry concept is a Spanish word, named after the Spanish for princess, so someone saying they are in the infantry is saying they are in the princesses...

Regards

David

An infante (fem: infanta) in Spanish is a King's son not expected to reign (wither becaus he's not legitimate, because he has an older brother or because she has a brother, no matter if older or younger). See as exapmle that nowdays the two Infantas (SAR¹ Elena and SAR Cristina) are both older than the Prince, but the preference for the male makes them not Princesses, but Infantas, while the Prince's wife is the Princess (disclaimer: only as example to clarify the terms, any discussion about that should belong to the Pit).

So to say, the only Prince in Spain is the Crown's heir, any others being Infantes/Infantas.

How this derivated to infante as non mounted troops, I don't know...

SAR: Su Alteza Real (his/her Royal Hightness)​

 

[Condottiere]

Since the core book will likely be based on Imperium military veterans, they'll organize themselves along army or marine formations, which are likely analogues of whatever fads the US military is finding fashionable.

Whatever technology and the size of battle taxis that the mercenaries have available should play a part in mercenary unit's organization.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Right you are. Sections are listed as an option in Striker. I've never seen them mentioned in any Third Imperium setting material though.

Worth remembering that the black cover books support 3I, but are not 3I. Entirely possible we will do a book detailing 3I mercenary units in the future. This one, however, remains setting-free.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Let's say I want to form a teapot consisting of 2 four-man rifle units with a two-man support unit. This corresponds (roughly) to a modern rifle squad. It seems as though this unit might suffer some inefficiency or does it simply require an additional roster?

You are free to break things down as you wish and, if you have certain groupings already written up - say a squad - in most cases you will be able to do new groups on the fly - say, by breaking the squad down into two fire teams.

You will need a roster for every seperate group of mercs (you can have one roster for an entire army!). In practice, you will have rosters for every unit that generally gets used in play.

For example, if your mercenary force consists of just a squad, you will likely have a roster covering the entire squad, but also the fire teams within it.

If you are working at company-level, you _may_ have prepared seperate rosters for each squad (and, if you have OCD, every fire team - wouldn't take that long to do, and they will all fit on a spreadsheet). In practice though, many players may have two rosters, covering a platoon a piece, while the third platoon (the one the players generally lead personally) is broken down into squad rosters and, yes, possibly fire team rosters too.

The perspective of the players should be kept in mind - if they are _directly_ leading a platoon, they will be sending Squad A over there, Fire Teams from Squad B over here, and so on. However, Platoons 2 and 3 are way over there, have their orders and will be led by their own officers - so, just one roster needed to resolve whatever difficulties they meet.

Now, bearing in mind we are not trying to replicate a wargame, this is just a suggested method of play, and you can break everything down into small units as you see fit - the system will handle it. Alternatively, a group may decide they don't want any of that detail and just have a single roster for the entire company, making one set of dice rolls for the lot.

It all depends on the level of magnification/resolution you want in your games. The intention from our side is to provide a simple set of rules that will scale to match your level in the games you want to play.

Let me know if we succeed

 

[Dagrill]

Minor point, but it's 8 men in a the current british section. The corporal in charge in also charlie fire team leader. I think the change happened about the same time the Warrior came into service (It may be possible that the IFV wasn't able to hold the old 9 man section? not sure)

Thanks,

I was using 80's data, seemed appropriate for Traveller, but it was 10 men in WW2 (in theory) and as you say 8 now.

Kind Regards

David

 

[McPerth]

Since the core book will likely be based on Imperium military veterans, they'll organize themselves along army or marine formations, which are likely analogues of whatever fads the US military is finding fashionable.

Whatever technology and the size of battle taxis that the mercenaries have available should play a part in mercenary unit's organization.

But even the mercs in 3I can find themselves (to give you an example) as cadres in a planet with totally different military organization...

And remember that, according to MT:V&V (page 37), the Vilani use a sistema where the base is 2, instead of the 3 we are used to, where 2 subunits make a unit.

And all of this is still in OTU...

 

[Condottiere]

Not familiar with that work, but it could easily be incorporated:

Army - 2 Corps (plus support)
Corps - 2 Divisions
Division - 2 Brigades
Brigade - 2 Regiments
Regiment - 2 Battalions
Battalion .... 2 Squadrons
Squadron - 2 Companies
Company - 2 Platoons
Platoon - 2 Sections
Section - 2 Squads
Squad - 2 Teams
Team - 2 Buddy system packs
Buddy system pack - 2 buddies