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Missile fix

xevus11

SOC-7
I have heard many people complain about the low power and high cost of missiles in mongoose edition so I have rebalanced all the missiles and added many of my own.

Basic missile – 1d6 damage – 2,000 Cr. - TL 6

Nuclear Fission bomb – 4d6 + 2 rad. hits – 30,000 Cr. - TL 6

Nuclear Fusion bomb – 6d6 +1 rad. Hit – 30,000 Cr. - TL 8

Long Range missile – 1d6-1 – 3,000 Cr. - TL 7 – Thrust 15 rather than 10

Multiple warhead missile – 1d6x1d6 – 14,000 – TL 8 – Thrust 8

Shockwave missile – polarizes sand clouds deployed this turn, rendering them useless – 12,000 Cr. - TL 10

Chaff missile – Deploys a variety of radar reflective strips, hot particles and a small grav pulse that forces a ship to make a comms/sensors check for ANY exterior operation and at a -1 DM (excluding NAZ) or -2 for very high quality versions – TL 10 – 11,000 Cr. - 50,000 Cr.

Antipersonnel missile – This covers a variety of fire bombs, gas missiles, and fragmentation bombs. AP missiles do nothing when the target still has hull remaining, however once it is breached, the missile can cause significant damage to the crew, however the method. - 1d3 crew hits – 5,000 Cr. - 10,000 Cr. - TL 6+

Armour piercing missile – 1d6-1 damage, ignores 2 Armour – 8,000 Cr. - TL 8

Empty missile – A missile that is nothing more than a engine and a compartment

Drop pod missile – A missile designed to safely carry a small drone to the surface of most planets – 2,500 Cr. - TL 7

Hologram missile – This missile will display any hologram it is programmed with at its predetermined destination until it runs out of power (2 weeks normally) – 8,000 Cr. - TL 11, 12, 13

Relay missile – A simple missile with a radio repeater and a narrow cast relay – 7,000 Cr. - TL 19

Operator Guided missile – Can only be used at short range – operator can add his dex mod to the final to-hit roll as well as the bonus from the initial launch – 6,500 Cr. - TL 7

Ortillery missile – 5d6+6 damage – 17,000 Cr. - TL 9 – Thrust 2, 4 turns endurance

Jump-breaker missile – Missile suffers a -8 to all jump rolls this turn – 100,000 Cr. - TL 13

EMP missile, Mk1 – This missile emits a EM pulse that shuts down unshielded electronics for 1d3+2 star ship rounds (electronics in the engineering bay are always shielded – 13,000 Cr. - TL10
EMP missile, Mk2 – As Mk 1 but destroys unshielded electronics – 30,000 Cr. - TL 11 – Generally illegal to posses

Flair round – -2 to all lock on attempts this turn – TL6 – 3,500 Cr.

Flack missile – 1d4 damage to all fighters/bombers within 250m – TL7 – 8,000 Cr.

Stealth modification, Mk1 – This modification includes radar reflective skin and interior EM dampening systems well as a modified propellent system. Stealth forces a ship to make a sensors check every turn the missile is in flight at a -2 or a -4 if only using passive sensors. Due to the nonstandard shape and additional material damage is reduced by 1. can't be mounted on fission bombs - +5,000 Cr. - TL 8
Stealth modification, Mk2 – As Mk 1, but contains a grav fuzzer to jam densometers as well. Can be mounted on all weapons reduces damage by 1 - +6,000 Cr. - TL 10
Stealth modification, Mk3 – As Mk 1 but does not reduce damage. - +8,000 Cr. - TL 11
Stealth modification, Mk4 – As Mk 2 but does not reduce damage - +10,000 Cr. - TL 12

Vislight Chameleon – Stealth hides a missile electronically, however on some rare occasions it can be desirable to make invisible missiles - +15,000 Cr. - TL 8

“Smart” modification – may keep making attacks until destroyed, can be applied to any missile – x2 cost – TL 8 minimum
“Genius” modification – as “Smart” but with a +1 to hit – x3 cost – TL 10 minimum

Protected circuit modification – Protects smart missiles from jamming and all missiles from EMPs – 2,000 Cr. – TL 8 min
Grapple line – Close range or shorter – see scoundrel for details – 250,000 Cr. Each (reusable) – TL 9
 
I have heard many people complain about the low power and high cost of missiles in mongoose edition so I have rebalanced all the missiles and added many of my own.

[a bunch of really cool ideas]

How does it change the game, if any?

I can see a ton of really interesting tactical ideas in xevus11's list. "Hologram missiles", sems to me, is the nugget of an interesting-sounding adventure in two words.
 
It doesn't. It is designed to make missiles a viable tactical option for starship combat, as well as give missiles a more utilitarian use like the relay missiles or drop-pod missiles.

So missiles are a viable tactical option now? What were they before? And the game isn't changed whatsoever?
 

IIRC In CT missiles did 1D6 hits instead of 1 for lasers. In MT missiles take ages to reach their target, can be defeated by countermeasures, do poorly against armoured targets, have a limited number of shots each of which you have to pay money for and do only the same damage as lasers.

They have a whole list of disadvantages and no redeeming features.

Simon Hibbs
 
They have a whole list of disadvantages and no redeeming features.

Simon Hibbs

That's because given their purported size you can't reasonably expect more. I mean you can't even design one using the MTG space propulsion rules. As far as speed goes, how fast do you want them and, how do you want to propel them?
 

Well, looking at CT non-Bk5:
Missile does 1d6 hits
Beam Laser does 1 hit
Pulse Laser does 2 hits (per errata/Starter)
Sp.Sup.3 alters damages for missiles
Each 300mm (3 G-turns) of vector: +1 damage except for nukes
HE: 1 hit per 5kg of warhead
Focused Force: 1 hit per 2.5kg of warhead
Nukes (Fission & fusion): 10hits +2 radiation hits per 0.1KT
Enhanced Radiation Nukes: 8 rad hits per 0.1KT, 0-5 standard hits per 0.1KT (0 if standoff, 5 if contact)

Looking at MGT Core Rules
Missile does 1d6 damage
Nuclear Missile does 2d6 damage + Crew Hit
Pulse Laser does 1d6 damage
Beam Laser does 2d6 damage

Note that this totally changes the relationship. Missiles are underpowered by a factor of 3.5 or more in MGT.

In CT, esp. with the vector rule from SS3, missiles can destroy ships readily. I once had a salvo of 3 missiles totally kill the drives of a Type C Cruiser...
 
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With regards to your CT non-Bk5.

Which adventure gives the damage equivalence for a PA as 4d?

I've never been able to pin that one down.
 
With regards to your CT non-Bk5.

Which adventure gives the damage equivalence for a PA as 4d?

I've never been able to pin that one down.

ISTR it being one of the third party ones.

Note that JTAS 4 gives "heavy laser with a +2 DM" - but CT has no "heavy laser"...

ISTR it being a ship weapon annotation of a HG-79 ship. I think it was a GW (UK) source.

Noting that GDW revised many items between printings, and the PDF of Adv 1 is 3rd printing... it might have been an earlier printing... and it was a GW product under GDW labeling.

IISS Ship Files also uses the term "Heavy Laser" but for Fusion Guns:
Fusion Gun: Counts as a heavy laser, and uses the laser fire rules with a DM of +1 to hit. Fusion guns may be used in the Laser Return Fire role. They are, however, short range weapons, and may not be employed if the range exceeds 150’’
Nuclear Damper Screens: To simulate this defensive measure, use the ECM computer program rule, but nuclear missiles are destroyed on a throw of 6+ (Book 2). Ordinary missiles with High Explosive warheads are unaffected.​

So, not IISS Ship Files.
 
The Gazelle write up in JTAS 5 also mentions treating the PA as a heavy laser.

Hmm, I wonder if there was ever a version where instead of single-triple lasers you had small medium and large?

Also of note is that in both the Kinunir and Gazelle data blocks the PA is neutral/charged.
Neutral for space use and charged for atmospheric use?

I've house ruled the PA doing 2+2 - two normal hits and two radiation hit using the damage tables in SS3. I can't remember where I got the total number 4 from.
 
That's because given their purported size you can't reasonably expect more. I mean you can't even design one using the MTG space propulsion rules. As far as speed goes, how fast do you want them and, how do you want to propel them?

I can reasonably expect them to have at least some redeeming features that make them more than useless. I don't think the design sequence was really meant for vehicles as small as a munition. I want gem to go at a useful speed and to be propelled sufficiently to achieve that.

However, l'll have a stab at providing more than that. Suppose they're really rail gun launched warheads with terminal propulsion and guidance systems. They wouldn't need to be all that big. Propulsion is by a quasi stable over optimised thruster unit capable of tens of Gs of acceleration but that burns out after a few turns, too dangerous and expensive to scale up or use in a vehicle.

Simon Hibbs
 
The Gazelle write up in JTAS 5 also mentions treating the PA as a heavy laser.

Hmm, I wonder if there was ever a version where instead of single-triple lasers you had small medium and large?

Also of note is that in both the Kinunir and Gazelle data blocks the PA is neutral/charged.
Neutral for space use and charged for atmospheric use?

I've house ruled the PA doing 2+2 - two normal hits and two radiation hit using the damage tables in SS3. I can't remember where I got the total number 4 from.
I've always used 3 normal and 1 radiation since SS3.
4 prior, but with a +2 on the location roll...
 
Well, looking at CT non-Bk5:
Missile does 1d6 hits
Beam Laser does 1 hit
Pulse Laser does 2 hits (per errata/Starter)
Sp.Sup.3 alters damages for missiles
Each 300mm (3 G-turns) of vector: +1 damage except for nukes
HE: 1 hit per 5kg of warhead
Focused Force: 1 hit per 2.5kg of warhead
Nukes (Fission & fusion): 10hits +2 radiation hits per 0.1KT
Enhanced Radiation Nukes: 8 rad hits per 0.1KT, 0-5 standard hits per 0.1KT (0 if standoff, 5 if contact)

Looking at MGT Core Rules
Missile does 1d6 damage
Nuclear Missile does 2d6 damage + Crew Hit
Pulse Laser does 1d6 damage
Beam Laser does 2d6 damage

Note that this totally changes the relationship. Missiles are underpowered by a factor of 3.5 or more in MGT.

In CT, esp. with the vector rule from SS3, missiles can destroy ships readily. I once had a salvo of 3 missiles totally kill the drives of a Type C Cruiser...

Thanks for answering. It does look like a game-changer. Don't know why someone would think it didn't change the game. Otherwise, why edit the stats?
 
However, l'll have a stab at providing more than that. Suppose they're really rail gun launched warheads with terminal propulsion and guidance systems.


Then, you won't fit into teeny tiny turrets that the rules say they do. In short, they have to have SOME type of propulsion that is listed in the rules. Either vehicle size or small craft size. They don't....
 
Then, you won't fit into teeny tiny turrets that the rules say they do. In short, they have to have SOME type of propulsion that is listed in the rules. Either vehicle size or small craft size. They don't....

The turret rules have never made much sense in Traveller, so it's a bit unfair to single out missiles in that way. If you really want to start a discussion about turret realism go ahead, but that way lies madness.

I just dont think that single shot disposable munitions, with an expected service life of a couple of turns and no safety requirements are in scope for the vehicle or small craft rules, so I don't see why missiles should be restricted to the same limitations.

Simon Hibbs
 
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