Missing skills

[Brandon C]

I've noticed that some careers are missing skills they really need.

For example, it's not possible to generate a Navy doctor because none of the Naval skill tables include Medic. Do they rely on Marines or civilians for medical care?

The same is true of Merchants (guys that explains why low berths are so risky) and the Free Trader specialist can't get gunner (explains why pirates exist, as the crews can't shoot back).

The easiest answer, of course, is just to replace questionable skills on the tables with these more important skills. For example, for Merchants replace Zero G with Medic.

Any fixes from others?

 

[nats]

Cant you get the relevant skills from events?

 

[RandyB]

Cant you get the relevant skills from events?

Wouldn't that make these skills unnecessarily rare?

 

[rancke]

In a similar vein, I've noticed that my characters from Regina, a TL12 society, can't get Flyer (grav) skill¹ but can get Driver (wheeled or tracked), skills that must be respectively very common and relatively rare on a world with ubiquitous grav vehicles.

¹ Unless they pursue a career that offers it.​

Hans

 

[Brandon C]

Cant you get the relevant skills from events?

That seems to be an odd way to qualify people for crew positions.

 

[CosmicGamer]

I've discussed this elsewhere

Chargen Marines
- Change the Marines Service Skills Table Tactics (any) to Zero G.
- Change the Marines Advanced Education Table so that the second of the two Medic skills is now Tactics (any)

Chargen Army
- Change the Army Service Skills Table Athletics (any) to Zero G
- Change the Army Personal Development Table Medic to Athletics (any)

Reason :
Know why those asteroids and other no or low gravity places are so wild and crazy? No army, and no typical ground or support marines can operate there! I feel the troops should be capable of going to all types of worlds.

Similar issues with Scouts. A courier gets Zero G and vacc suit but explorers and surveyors only set foot places where atmo and gravity are optimum? I haven't decided how to tweak the scout tables yet.

Also, in a discussion with hiro on the mongoose forums in this thread http://forum.mongoosepublishing.com/viewtopic.php?f=89&t=65698

Numerous issues with Scouts from the core rules such as Zero G and Vacc Suit skill on a nice cozy courier but the scouts who actually go exploring must only go to pleasant places with gravity and standard atmosphere because those skills are not on the Service skills or Specialist table for Exploration or Survey.

If and when I do finally give it more thought, there would be numerous changes and I'd also consider changing Scout basic training to:

Unlike other careers, a Scout gains level 0 skills
from the appropriate Specialist table instead of
the Service Skills table in basic training.

But to address your proposal, on the Specialist Exploration table you could join the two pilots into one, Pilot(spacecraft or small craft), so that you can add Survival there.

 

[McPerth]

I've noticed that some careers are missing skills they really need.

For example, it's not possible to generate a Navy doctor because none of the Naval skill tables include Medic. Do they rely on Marines or civilians for medical care?

If you use HG they can easily acheve it, by taking the support (medic) branch. I don't talk about merchants, as I don't own Merchant Prince.

In a similar vein, I've noticed that my characters from Regina, a TL12 society, can't get Flyer (grav) skill¹ but can get Driver (mole, wheeled or tracked), skills that must be respectively very common and relatively rare on a world with ubiquitous grav vehicles.

¹ Unless they pursue a career that offers it.​

(bold part is mine, as you forgot this speciality, even if it's even more absurd)

Easy house rule: for background skills vehicle is exchanged for flyer at TL 10+ (or higher, as you see fit)

 

[CosmicGamer]

I've noticed that some careers are missing skills they really need.

I can understand every single MOS not being covered in a simple set of tables that covers one career and three specialties.

The easiest answer, of course, is just to replace questionable skills on the tables with these more important skills. For example, for Merchants replace Zero G with Medic.

Certainly. Also the creation of additional specialties could be warranted in some circumstances.

For example, it's not possible to generate a Navy doctor because none of the Naval skill tables include Medic. Do they rely on Marines or civilians for medical care?

Book 2 high guard details 10 careers each with 3 specialties. One is the support career with a Medical specialty.

The same is true of Merchants (guys that explains why low berths are so risky)

The big liners probably recruit a practicing doctor or medical school graduate and don't train from within. Average crewing for medic on a ship is one per 120 passengers. So, the medic is not required on the small merchants who might want to save the cost and stateroom space, and again, those small merchants are probably not going to train their medics.

and the Free Trader specialist can't get gunner (explains why pirates exist, as the crews can't shoot back).

I don't see small merchants somehow providing quality training for every possible skill that might be needed. Learn by doing - events. Or likely hiring people that have had other careers. Seek out the ex Army support medic, the Merchant marine that used to work a massive hauler.

Note that in Book 7 Merchant Prince the Free Trader Career has three specialties. Still no medical skill in the tables. Two specialties have Gunner.

Lastly, for some skills note that one could get by with the use of expert programs or other technologies.

 

[rancke]

Easy house rule: for background skills vehicle is exchanged for flyer at TL 10+ (or higher, as you see fit)

I was going to point out that ease of house-ruling a rules flaw does not redeem the flaw, but then I thought that perhaps you weren't suggesting that it did but were merely being helpful.

My house rule would be to have one mode of transportation available at each tech level, possibly overlapping a bit. A riding animal or cart at TL 0-4, wheeled vehicle at TL 4-9, and grav vehicle at TL 9+.

I'm sure that isn't a possiblity Mongoose would accept for MgT, since homeworld skills are linked to trade classifications, so short of getting them to introduce a 'Mid-tech' classification to fill the space between Low-tech and High-tech that would be a deal-breaker. But that's how I would house rule it.

Perhaps an extra rule at the bottom of the paragraph to the effect that the referee should define one such mode of transportation for each world?


Hans

 

[McPerth]

Another skill that (IMHO) should be in the background skill list is Atlethics, as it is a quite common hobby for many people.

 

[McPerth]

I was going to point out that ease of house-ruling a rules flaw does not redeem the flaw, but then I thought that perhaps you weren't suggesting that it did but were merely being helpful.

You were right in my intent. I agree that when house rules must be used, sonething is flawed...

My house rule would be to have one mode of transportation available at each tech level, possibly overlapping a bit. A riding animal or cart at TL 0-4, wheeled vehicle at TL 4-9, and grav vehicle at TL 9+.

I'm sure that isn't a possiblity Mongoose would accept for MgT, since homeworld skills are linked to trade classifications, so short of getting them to introduce a 'Mid-tech' classification to fill the space between Low-tech and High-tech that would be a deal-breaker. But that's how I would house rule it.

Perhaps an extra rule at the bottom of the paragraph to the effect that the referee should define one such mode of transportation for each world?

Fully agreed too

 

[Limburger59]

I've noticed that some careers are missing skills they really need.

For example, it's not possible to generate a Navy doctor because none of the Naval skill tables include Medic. Do they rely on Marines or civilians for medical care?

I'll admit that I don't own MgT - though if I could afford to I'd love to try it. That said, I would think that the way to get a Navy medic is through a NROTC program, similar to what is done today. I assume MgT has that option. I know that as far as the U.S. Navy you must have a B.S. degree to get in, and it seems that most of them are NROTC BSN grads. If you are coming out of high school the best you'll get is Medic-0.

 

[CosmicGamer]

Please have fun playing the way you want. Including criticizing the rules if that's how you have fun.

Personally I don't expect the core rules to cover everything.

Mongoose seams to recognize that the first portion of chargen with a few tables with 6 skills in it might not give everything one might want. It provides a couple other ways of gaining those "missing" skills during chargen via events, changing careers, connections and the skill package. Alternate chargen systems like Point Allocation are covered in the core rules.

There is supplemental material that goes into careers in more detail for those who want it. There is supplemental material that covers schooling such as university or military academy.

People are encouraged to make house rules. That is in the rules. Here is just one example.

Referees are encouraged to customise characteristics and events for their campaigns.

 

[Brandon C]

In a similar vein, I've noticed that my characters from Regina, a TL12 society, can't get Flyer (grav) skil but can get Driver (wheeled or tracked), skills that must be respectively very common and relatively rare on a world with ubiquitous grav vehicles.

Hans

Given that an air/raft costs almost 50x as much as a ground car, that might be reasonable ...

 

[Brandon C]

If you use HG they can easily acheve it, by taking the support (medic) branch. I don't talk about merchants, as I don't own Merchant Prince.

Right now, the only interest I have in HE is for building ships up to 5,000 tons, which doesn't seem like a good value. I'm better off using the drive potential table from CT Book 2 , even given that the CT and MgT tables don't match up at 2,000 tons.

No interest at all in Merchant Prince (I was cured uf that after playing a session run by a business major ...).

 

[rancke]

Given that an air/raft costs almost 50x as much as a ground car, that might be reasonable ...

MT:Referee's Companion says that land, sea, and air transportation merge with the invention of grav vehicles. I assume that on worlds with grav technology no one invests in the infrastructure to support ground vehicles.


Hans

 

[pendragonman]

MT:Referee's Companion says that land, sea, and air transportation merge with the invention of grav vehicles. I assume that on worlds with grav technology no one invests in the infrastructure to support ground vehicles.


Hans

Hans,

The world has gyrocopters that cost about as much as a car, are nearly all weather, and will fold up into a standard garage. Did we abandon the automobile?

We have nuclear powered ships. Did we abandon diesel ships?

The advent of a new technology does not mean that all tech before it is useless and therefore abandoned. The previous poster explained why. The common man could not afford a grav vehicle, so why abandon the ground car just because grav technology became available?

 

[rancke]

The world has gyrocopters that cost about as much as a car, are nearly all weather, and will fold up into a standard garage. Did we abandon the automobile?

No, but then, we haven't had 1000 years in which to do so.

We have nuclear powered ships. Did we abandon diesel ships?

No, but then, diesel ships do not require a multi-billion credit infrastructure to support them.

The advent of a new technology does not mean that all tech before it is useless and therefore abandoned. The previous poster explained why. The common man could not afford a grav vehicle, so why abandon the ground car just because grav technology became available?

Because the infrastructure to support the ground car was deemed too expensive to keep up? Or some other reason? After all, MT:Referee's Companion says that land, sea, and air transportation merge with the invention of grav vehicles, so apparently there is one.


Hans

 

[pendragonman]

No, but then, we haven't had 1000 years in which to do so.


No, but then, diesel ships do not require a multi-billion credit infrastructure to support them.


Because the infrastructure to support the ground car was deemed too expensive to keep up? Or some other reason? After all, MT:Referee's Companion says that land, sea, and air transportation merge with the invention of grav vehicles, so apparently there is one.


Hans

You still haven't refuted the cost issue. Or in your universe there are no middle class and lower people?

 

[rancke]

You still haven't refuted the cost issue. Or in your universe there are no middle class and lower people?

Refute is too strong a word, but I believe that I cast doubt on it when I brought up the infrastructure costs. I'm not convinced that the cost issue is quite as simple when you factor in the cost of roads.


Hans