Weaponry chapter, page 29.
No, that is not a chapter. That's a Major section subheader. I feel you once again are kind of making up definitions that suit you as you go. The chapter begins on page 20. The tables on pages 24 and 25 that all have the word "Weapons" in their title are the sections that most succinctly deal with weapons. The "Weaponry" major subheader follows on page 29. It is divided into subsections dealing with Batteries, Major Weaponry, Bay Weapons, Turrets, and Screens (although these are not, strictly speaking, weaponry). These sections describe the rules for how to implement how the weapons described in the tables work in starship design.
So you are saying that title of a section has no bearing on the contents that follow...
No; pretty much YOU said that when you said that because the "emphasis" of the batteries section should be batteries, that somehow the EXPLICIT statement that batteries are defined as being comprised of one to ten turrets, did not belong there and therefore, in your view, must obviously mean weapons. I said that this view was a misinterpretation of what the rules actually say. Certainly the header has bearing. And that bearing in this case is that: BATTERIES = 1 to 10 turrets. You're the one that has a problem with what the rules actually say, not me. Again, not WEAPONS, as you propose; TURRETS, just like it says.
Was discussing a Battery within the Battery section of the rules. This battery is a #1 laser sharing a turret with other #1 batteries. The battery may be as few as one turret, which this one is.
But the rules don't say that. They don't say weapon, weapons, lasers, fusion guns, or anything else. The rules say TURRET. As few as one turret means as few as one single turret (and all the unmixed weapons within), as few as one double turret (and all the unmixed weapons within), as few as one triple turret (and all the unmixed weapons within). This is why you need the "mixed turret" rule, and the rule on how batteries in mixed turrets must be arranged. Since different weapons cannot be arranged into a battery, an exception had to be specified, and a rule made on what to do in that case.
Not quite, Batteries are made up of individual weapons. The only reference to turrets in the 'Batteries' section does not indicate that turrets are sub-units. Its a convenient way to organise them, but thats it. The route to a Battery USP involves counting weapons not turrets.
No. Rules. Page 29. Sentence 3. No mention of individual weapons is made AT ALL. You are completely reading that into the rules. The rules state one to ten turrets.
The ONLY REFERENCE TO TURRETS IN THE BATTERIES SECTION THAT REFERS TO TURRETS SPECIFICALLY NAMES TURRETS AS THE SUB-UNIT!! What the heck else does "A battery may be as few as one turret, or as many as ten,..." mean if it doesn't mean that??
Ahhh, the group think approach rather than the rules based approach.
No, the "we all read it, and that's the way it is", rather than the "I'm a stubborn old bugger [to paraphrase your own description of yourself], and no matter what anyone else says I will persist in my view" approach.
Now, mind you, you are certainly free to play your campaign under any interpretation of the rules you want, but my reading, and the reading of the rules by many longtime players and experienced grognards of the board disagree with your reading. Just because we all collectively disagree with you does not mean that we are "group thinking". It means we all independently arrived at the same conclusion. If you posit that we are all fairly intelligent, which I am willing to do, certainly if nine people read something one way and the tenth reads it another, the most simple explanation is that #10 is misinterpreting what he's reading. Is it possible we (I) am wrong? Sure, but it's unlikely, given the nature of the question, the absence of your interpretation in any known and published example of any ship, and the collective experience of the group here.
Saying it's group think is dismissive of years of collected experience.
You are having to make this up! I refered to the Turret section, where did you get your 'mount refers to the function of the turret' definition!
"Weapons may be mounted in turrets emplaced on the hull." To be mounted in a turret a weapon requires a weapon mount (singular, fits one weapon). A turret houses both weapon and mount (& targeting, stabilisers, electronics, etc) within an armoured housing. Its function is to protect the contents, not act as a mount.
It also says in the next paragraph that turrets are [highlight]"installed on hardpoints with single, dual, and triple configurations and allow the mounting of lasers, (etc)..."[/highlight]
What the heck else does that sentence mean? It says IN BLACK AND WHITE that the turret IS the MOUNT! It says that turrets are installed AT hardpoints and MOUNT weapons! Plain as day!
Hmmm, thought I had covered all your points. If its important post it again, you have been prolific in your posting!
Yea, I am OCD. Can't let it go.
But... what is a weapon mount.
Um, a turret, a bay, a spinal location.
I note with interest you are using the phrase 'mount' in preference to 'weapon mount' which is the key phrase in question.
I note with interest that you have pretty much made up a distinction between "mount" and "weapon mount" that does not exist in the rules.
Whoe, back up. Where did this concept come from! Please explain, I've suggested nothing of the sort.
You claim you never confuse weapons with turrets?
You certainly have. Sentence 3. "A battery may be as few as one turret, or as many as ten,..."
Your whole argument rests on replacing the word "turret" with the word "weapon", to make your single weapon battery. The rule says TURRET. A turret
by definition (see above) mounts one to three weapons. Weapons <> turrets. If you agree this is true, your interpretation cannot stand.
If I have a ship with one double turret, and I want to specify batteries, and batteries are comprised of turrets, then it's ONE battery with TWO total weapons. If those weapons are fusion guns, and I look at the pretty chart called "Turret Weapons", I see that 2 weapons in a fusion battery are going to be one factor 4 battery. Not complicated at all.
I can tell you from experience that rules writers don't remember thier rules 5 minutes after they get thier teeth stuck into a new project, let alone after 30 years. I'll be surprised if he comes back with anything other than 'it says what it says'.
It still comes back to the question of what is a 'weapon mount'. Is it a turret or is it a mount within a turret for a single weapon.
Anyway, we are playing postal catch-up & I appear to be 2 or three posts behind yours! I'll do my next catch-up tomorrow.
Marc, I think, pretty much lives
Traveller. I doubt that anything more than a quick review of the section would allow him to divine the original intent. He is however a Busy Man, working on T5 and other projects, so..
He has dispatched his loyal minion (sorry Don
) to make the ruling, and as the designated agent and FFE representative, I will be happy to abide with whatever he decides.
Been nice to spar with you.
