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Moving past the 3rd Imperium

How could virus be “done right” though?

As a whole, Virus not only kicked over the sandcastle, it glassed the entire beach. Everything else has been obliterated - about the only things left from ‘old trav’ which could be relevant are the UWPs. The Marches are not frontier anymore, but are the tech powerhouse of what is left of humanity. No more Zhos twirling their moustaches across the border as the Consulate was splatted by the empress wave, the Ihaeti are gone with the Heirate, and the Soli confed is history (literally and figuratively), and about the only ones who haven't changed much are the Vargr in the Extents.

Even jumping in the TARDIS and resetting 500 years in the future, the differences would be huge and 20+ years of slowly growing OTU material fleshing out worlds/sectors/power groups would have to be flushed down the toilet as it is no longer relevant. And the survivor groups (Marches/Hivers) would have to have a reason why they are now not Tech 17+.

To pick up the pieces after virus would require whoever does it to essentially rebuild the entire Trav “campaign universe” from scratch. While this could have benefits (clearing out canon conflicts, finally ruling on obscure factoids, resolving copyright issues, etc) it would almost be so different that it one may as well go the whole hog and cut completely from the 1I-2I-3I history.

This may possibly be why people shy away from it and take the “sidestep virus” problem, as rebuilding to the degree necessary it is not something which would be quick or easy.
 
I think the problem is that it is impossible to satisfy everyone with a solution.

Some people believe that SJG's OTU is "boring" (conveniently omitting events like the tensions happening in the Solomani Rim), when in fact it is exactly what one would expect if the Civil War or Collapse had never happened. One would think this would specifically appeal to those who loathe the Collapse so much, but apparently it this is not necessarily the case. And of course people who are not satisfied with the OTU as it stands would not feel much reason to go down this path.

Alternatively, the OTU could be wiped clean (and the purpose of Collapse and the Virus was essentially to create a new slate to work from), which satisfies those who believe that the OTU needed to change, but enrages those who believe that the OTU should remain constant and immutable.

Thus, we have stalemate. Nobody wins, and people are unhappy either way.

GDW tried to change the OTU, and received a lot of abuse from a minority of very vocal "fans" who did not approve of the changes. As a result, publishers tend to be afraid to significantly change the OTU, which is why the OTU has all but fossilized. For it to change, I think that the "old guard" need to either die out or step aside and let people do what is necessary to move the OTU forward without fear of abuse and harrassment.
 
For it to change, I think that the "old guard" need to either die out or step aside and let people do what is necessary to move the OTU forward without fear of abuse and harrassment.

Hoping that us "old guard" should all die out? :) That's pretty harsh. Possibly darn right abuse and harassment.

Here's hoping that us 40-somethings stay Traveller fans into our 80's until we die out. Boy wouldn't that just ruffle the feathers of the "Young Guard" if we stuck around for another four decades? :p

Back on topic:

Anyone can change the Traveller universe into whatever they want it to be. Don't like where it is going? Change it for your own game. Your game amongst your group of friends is in no way controlled by how the Old Guard are playing their game down the street at the receiving home.
 
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Here's hoping that us 40-somethings stay Traveller fans into our 80's until we die out. Boy wouldn't that just ruffle the feathers of the "Young Guard" if we stuck around for another four decades? :p

Yes, but the "Young Guard" will still be around for a few more decades than you. Either way, you die out first ;).

Regardless, the point was that those who are opposed to change must move aside (somehow) if the OTU is to change at all. Otherwise... it simply will not change.
 
This whole old guard/new blood re changes thing is a fallacy. More divisive rot we don't need. It was the old guard who made the sweeping change that was Rebellion/Virus/Empress Wave, and it was not just the old guard who shouted it down but some who were new to the game as I recall it. And rightly so in many ways...

...simply put the changes were too big. It changed the focus of the game from the players and a "one person can make a difference, or at least make a go at a life" to "only the mighty can survive and will count" to too large a degree. Oh sure the rules were still to create a simple character trying to make a go of it with a small ship, but in the end it really didn't matter. In their attempt to wipe the slate clean and allow more personal level adventures the changes made any attempt at it pointless. Rebellion destroyed whole systems and the Imperium (et al) were no more. I recall an early call to arms involving a choosing of sides. Who will your characters back in the Rebellion War? It didn't matter of course. It wasn't like it would make a difference. Virus was lurking everywhere ready to enslave or destroy. And then the Empress Wave came along and really messed up everything.

And as for the new blood making big changes, well Mongoose and many of their fans are the new blood, and they seem happy to work with the oldest base assumptions there are for the OTU. And it seems to be working nicely for everybody.

Besides, haven't you heard? Immortality will happen in our life time ;) The old guard will never die :D
 
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GDW tried to change the OTU, and received a lot of abuse from a minority of very vocal "fans" who did not approve of the changes. As a result, publishers tend to be afraid to significantly change the OTU, which is why the OTU has all but fossilized.
I've never found any of the publishers to be excessively intimidated by this so-called vocal minority. Nor have I found any lack of new ideas to develop in the OTU (Well, most of my work has been in the GTU, but very little of it has not been backdatable to pre-1116 and thus the OTU). My problem is that I find it difficult to finish my projects. I have, by my latest count, about 50 different works in progress. Saying that the OTU/GTU has become fossilized seems to me to be like complaining that nothing ever happen on Earth.

For it to change, I think that the "old guard" need to either die out or step aside and let people do what is necessary to move the OTU forward without fear of abuse and harrassment.
Yeah, because Mongoose is just too afraid of us grognards to change anything without our approval.


Hans
 
This whole old guard/new blood re changes thing is a fallacy. More divisive rot we don't need. It was the old guard who made the sweeping change that was Rebellion/Virus/Empress Wave, and it was not just the old guard who shouted it down but some who were new to the game as I recall it. And rightly so in many ways...

I think that "old guard" is less to do with age and more to do with mentality. It is represented by those who like things the way they are, and who do not like anything changing, and make certain that everyone around them knows about it. They have many reasons for doing so, some valid and some not, but I think that sort of attitude is what has held Traveller back and kept it largely unchanged for all these years. When you look at it, the OTU as presented in GURPS Traveller, T20, and Mongoose Traveller is not really much different to what it was when it was presented in CT.

Again, GURPS Traveller was an attempt to satisfy people like that, by bringing the OTU back to what it was without the Collapse and Civil War. Though despite those intentions people still attempted to marginalize it by claiming that it "wasn't Traveller" because of differences in the game engine. Again, there is no satisfying people, even when they get what they want.


...simply put the changes were too big. It changed the focus of the game from the players and a "one person can make a difference, or at least make a go at a life" to "only the mighty can survive and will count" to too large a degree.

I would suggest that you have seriously failed to understand TNE then. TNE was all about "one person making a difference" (e.g. the crew of single ships could rescue survivors, bring important trade to worlds cut off from everywhere, and topple dictators), while CT was all about "you are a tiny ship in a vast universe in which nobody is noticeable and nobody can make a difference".

And as for the new blood making big changes, well Mongoose and many of their fans are the new blood, and they seem happy to work with the oldest base assumptions there are for the OTU. And it seems to be working nicely for everybody.

But they are changing things nonetheless, and some people really do not like that. Especially on this board.
 
Yeah, because Mongoose is just too afraid of us grognards to change anything without our approval.

I have hope for Mongoose Traveller precisely because they do not care what the "grognards" say.
 
I'm not sure I understand where all the latest exchanges are going. But, to the "moving forward" verse "fossilization" topics, I recall the Leviathan Adventure. In that adventure it was the referee's job to create worlds and situations as the Leviathan trail-blazed new trade routes in unexplored (Imperial?) space. The world generation system could've generated barren pre-historic worlds, to lush high tech jungle worlds, to tech 30 with whatever it is that's beyond personal disintegrators in terms of weaponry.

To me, that seems to be a pre-Virus iteration of Traveller, which makes me scratch my head even more about some kind of shake up of the official milieu. I think each new version of the backdrop is interesting, but I for one have treated it more as lore than history etched on a holographic cube. I'm not sure I have too much more to say about this topic.

But I guess I'm just repeating myself now. Anyway, I hope my thoughts have helped with some insight.
 
I think each new version of the backdrop is interesting, but I for one have treated it more as lore than history etched on a holographic cube.

I may as well expand on my 0.2 creds with then. I tend to use it as history more than lore. But with a some clarification and caveats...

The CT/MT traveler set the environment for about 30 years game time - from 1100 to 1130, the major events were set out with some minor sinews attached (minor events during the 4th & 5th wars, etc) via TAS articles and the odd non-specific module. The major events were known in advance - yes the Zhodani would lose the war, Strephon got his brains blown out, but they were major events - checkpoints if you will - which the PC's could not effect in anyway at all. But IMHO far from constricting PC’s, it made the ride more enjoyable and gave the GM a lot more possibilities.

This isn't a game of D&D were players stride across the universe as demi-gods and they ARE the checkpoints, but in the Trav universe “Checkpoints check you!” But just because there are set checkpoints it doesn’t mean the journey is a straight line between them. Now this is where I squeeze the players in. Just because they can’t discuss imperial policy with the Emperor over tea and scones, or personally smite the entire Zhodani fleet with the ship they stole from Grandfather doesn’t mean there can’t be far reaching consequences to their actions. In fact knowing in advance what happens makes it all the easier to keep your world in line with the OTU and yet still remain personalised.

<<Anecdotal tale – ignore if you like>>

As an example from years ago my group was hired to find a missing daughter (Vera). And eventually they found her in the clutches of an evil villain, and rescued her. Standard cliché crap? Not quite.

The lesser noble was ‘fond of children’ and had quite a few in his ‘care’. The locals had made numerous complaints about him but the investigations were always ‘inconclusive’ or ‘not worth pursuing’ as he was being covered by his relative who was a Duke. The PC’s when they found out during the rescue blew his brains out. The action was popular with the locals, but one doesn’t shoot nobles. When dragged to trail the PC’s ranted and raved about how the system had failed ‘Vera’, showed graphic images, the nobility was corrupt and had turned a blind eye out of expediency, etc etc. They knew they were screwed anyway so go out with a bang so to speak. The stony faced arbiter seemed shaken but still pronounced the death sentence – but they manage to escape with the help of the locals.

So what’s the point already you ask?

A few months game time later the PC’s get the news of the assassination. Watching the video feed they suddenly realize the arbiter they had mouthed off to was Archduke Dulinor. And during his speech of why he shot Strephon, he held up a holo of Vera and said she had been saved because a group of good people had stood up to the rot infecting the Imperium and did what was necessary no matter the cost. And now it was he who had to stand up and do what was necessary. So the PC’s are watching this feed and thinking ‘Oh f**k, we gave him the idea to blow Strephon away…oh man…oh crap…we are so screwed…”. The PC’s changed the course of the Imperium (and trillions of people) in a roundabout way, and in my opinion a much more satisfying than simply splatting Teddys and getting saving the Universe (again) before breakfast. And this could not have been done without a skeleton to work with. Dulion would shoot Strephon but the actual reasons were always a bit vague beyond 'for the masses'. I used that grey zone between the checkpoints to entertain the PC's in the game and to give them a sens of accomplishment (unwanted as it was at the time).

To paraphrase the Gman from halflife - "The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world", but without a framework the GM can't know when the 'wrong place' is.

<<Anecdotes off - resume normal rambling>>

And this is where I have a bit of a problem with the newer products. Striking out on their own gives them new options but no framework – a skeleton of jelly rather than a solid structure, while linking them back into OTU unless done well makes them stand out as ‘add ons’ like the proverbial Vargr balls which brings down _both_ products.

TNE tried to break away with a new setting, and it could have worked, but instead of gradually bending people into the campaign it basically said ‘the universe blows up’ and its now 70 years later, the framework (such as the RCES’s 5 year plan) was sketchy at best and with no link back to the previous frameworks to support it, so it collapsed in a heap. I can’t say a lot about GURPS Trav (I don’t have it), but the TNS at SJ-JTAS reads like someone twittering a news feed – 118 “Strephon took a dump, said he was satisfied”, 123: “Princesses starship refuels yet again”, 245: “New paint dries on the grand palace”. While there is the odd interesting one such as some events going on in the Confederation, it never seems to be followed up. They have a skeleton, but it is starting to fray at the edges a bit. Compare the last few (game) years of SJ-TNS to a same time frame TNS collection in Survival margin.

Other peoples play/GM style may differ – and I expect they do and they may say that I am full of it. But a framework gives the GM something to work with as a coherent whole for a long term campaign as opposed to a series of one offs with no connection whatsoever - freestyle can only work so long before it trips over its own feet. So if someone wants to build a “new traveler universe” more power to them – but the caveat is that the OUT exists whether they like it or not, and they either have to ignore it completely (in which case why call it traveler?) or they have to work with it and the people who like the OTU. And from a purely practical standpoint - if the product is a coherent whole which adds to the OTU instead of subverts it, more product is sold (and the old farts are usually the ones with the money to blow ;)).

Sure, they could wait until the “old farts” drop dead but that may take some time (and by the time they do the so called new blood are the new old farts), but the old farts also contain a vast amount of information on the “older traveler” and where the problems turn up which saves the company from re-inventing the wheel for the umpteenth time. Youth and exuberance may move things forward, but its age and experience which points out the foolishness and traps.

And for the record while I could technically be ‘old guard’ (using CT/MT), I wouldn’t put myself there. I’d put myself as the guy having a smoke and a beer while watching the fights. Still I have to admit some of the 'active' old guard have a nasty swing to their canes at times. :D

Well, enough from me - I'll shut up now as I've probably annyoed both old guard and new blood alike. (crawls back under rock)
 
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TNE tried to break away with a new setting, and it could have worked, but instead of gradually bending people into the campaign it basically said ‘the universe blows up’ and its now 70 years later, the framework (such as the RCES’s 5 year plan) was sketchy at best and with no link back to the previous frameworks to support it, so it collapsed in a heap.

I would argue that GDW did "gradually bend people into the campaign"... via Megatraveller. It is not as if nobody had any warning that the Imperium would ultimately fall, given that there was first a Civil War and then Hard Times in the MT era. Survival Margin was even f I recall specifically a transitional MT/TNE product. I do not think that anybody who was paying any attention at the time can honestly claim that they were unprepared for things to at least remain bad (if not worse) for the Imperium.

I would say that by the end of the Megatraveller era the Imperium was falling regardless. Virus was just a nail in the coffin... one that certainly swept things away, but people seem to forget that what it was sweeping away was ashes and rubble after years of Civil War anyway. If you look at the history in Avenger's 1248 books (that are well worth it just for that) that filled in the gaps of what happened in and around the Imperium between the Assassination and the Collapse, you will see that the situation was very bad all across in Known Space even before Virus came along.

If Virus had not happened then we would most likely have been looking at a Long Night setting after Hard Times. That would certainly not be the stable, safe Imperium that is typified by the CT era. True, there would be no fleets of AI ships roaming around conquering or levelling planets, but technology would still probably collapse to some extent, and societies would fall into barbarism or tyranny to some extent as well. I do not really see much of a difference between the style of gameplay that this would entail, and the style of gameplay that TNE focussed on.
 
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Well, as much as I hate to suggest rewriting history, but, should Virus have had such a catastrophic effect? I mean, it seems like Virus would have been better if it had both destroyed vast tracks of space, but also have left vast tracks of space untouched. I mean, isn't that how REAL viruses work?

Not always... Some rage like wildfires on the prairie... everything gets scorched... the question is if the critters got dug in in time to weather it out, or manage to run around the fire to the scorched area and avoid being burned. Further, like Janta virus, TNE's virus is harmless to some groups, and absofreaking lethal to others.

The only thing GOOD I can see about how virus is written in TNE is that it answers the question, "Can computers be psionic?"... mostly because if not, then Virus can't propagate the way it's portrayed in rules.
 
I would argue that GDW did "gradually bend people into the campaign"... via Megatraveller. It is not as if nobody had any warning that the Imperium would ultimately fall, given that there was first a Civil War and then Hard Times in the MT era.

On this I quite agree. The Hard Times era (1125-1128 and I will admit my favourite time frame) had the CT third imperium as pretty much stone dead. Things were falling apart, worlds were dying, others were barely hanging on, etc. Though some of the side bars in HT hinted that it would be 'The short dusk", rather than "A long night" and the developer documents seem to support this - with rebuilding going on when the Black Imperium goes berko with cyber-Lucan at its head 30-40 years later.

If you look at the history in Avenger's 1248 books (that are well worth it just for that) that filled in the gaps of what happened in and around the Imperium between the Assassination and the Collapse, you will see that the situation was very bad all across in Known Space even before Virus came along.

Indeed. I have the 1248 books - but the catch is I have them _now_, not then. For example I rather liked the idea of the United Worlds - a small pocket empire set up on pure guts and determination (standard adventurer traits) who told the all-so-wonderful RC to get stuffed. But then everything was Reformation Coalition - the Regency barely got an outline, the Guild was a bad joke, and pocket empires seemed pretty much an afterthought. They released a few supplements later (Regency sourcebook and Guilded Lilly IIRC) but by then the damage was long done.

The idle pocket empire I had considered setting up later on turned out to be smack bang in the middle of the "vampire highway" - nice of them to tell me where the highway actually was. :nonono:

I do not really see much of a difference between the style of gameplay that this would entail, and the style of gameplay that TNE focussed on.

Which is part of the point. At the end of Hard times everything was a mess, but there were points of light here and there. Automonous polities and the tiny safes in a sea of darkness. After Virus you had one or two points of light in a sea of darkness.

The difference? At the end of HT you had people clawing their way out of the rubble, they looked at that rubble and asked 'what did we do wrong?', 'what happened?' or 'we're f**ked'. They could "hold" the rubble in their hands and have a connection with it - they could look back and see what was. And if the PC's were so inclined they could help rebuild, make a killing on trade, or laughed as they watched the world burn if they wanted. Virus and TNE however turned everything to rubble and then dropped the PC's into the middle of it, handed them a shovel and said "Good luck. Oh and mind the killer robots". Sure the GM/PC's could improvise, but with the lack of framework one was fairly limited to the 'cannon' setting - the RC - without running into a myraid of problems when the next published book turns any alternative setting on its head (eg: Solee).

In both cases the PC's could be "heros" if they wanted to but the far greater choice was with HT. The smoking ruins of the Imperium had black, white and a myraid of grey zones everywhere. TNE had black, more black and a bit of (very specific) white to pick from.

One fan article I found 'Imagine Virus' or 'Imagine the Fall' (I think, I cant remember the name) had a lot of potential. They laid out what it would be like to live through virus - watching ships fall out of the sky, fighting off looters, trying to survive the winter, working out what this mysterious disease called 'dysentry' is, fixing your ship to escape the cannibal populace, etc (being in the scout service would be a huge bonus in these situations other than a way to score a free ship). That would have been good for TNE - it's now personal for the PC's. Give them a reason to be doing things other than "shoot up a pack of Zippers and steal their stuff for *wink wink* the greater good". And when the PC's finally get their ship running with baling wire and gum after stealing said gum from a band of Rippers, and once again fly off to the stars after being stuck in a hellhole filled with people who want to rob/kill/eat them, their satisfaction will be immensely greater than sitting aorund waiting for the Hivers to drop by and say 'Hi guys. Wanna lift?". Hence one of my major gripes with the 70 year "okay everything got destroyed now here you are" gap.

Of course this is purely my opinion ;), and no doubt yours differs a lot. But I have probably wasted enough of everyones time with my off the cuff speculation, and more than probable topic drifting. My bad.
 
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Gents,

We're getting off topic here. The idea isn't to rehash for the millionth time MT, the Rebellion, Hard Times, TNE, Virus, and everything that has already occurred. The idea also isn't to rehash or fix the OTU in whatever manner.

Instead, the idea is to give the OTU a future again.

Traveller used to have a living story. Over thirty-plus years that living story progressed in small steps and huge leaps as TNS items appeared, as new products were written, and as new versions were released. Then, after GDW retired, that living story died.

Every version of Our Olde Game since GDW's retirement has either explored Traveller's past or an alternate time line. T4 presented M:0, T20 presented M:1000[/i], GT branched off from the Golden Era while MgT is repeating the same. No post-TNE version has addressed the OTU's future and only one product, M:1248, has had the stones to even attempt that(1).

As many have pointed out, there is an awesome temporal depth and physical breadth to the OTU which can provide a nearly unending supply of setting materials. What the OTU cannot provide however is a future. The OTU's future is walled off from us and, whether you set the wall at 1130, 1201, or 1248, that wall exists just the same.

I've pointed out that the OTU is primarily a time saving device. It allows a GM to quickly tap into a deeply detailed background which they then can use to enrich their own settings. The OTU is also a touchstone, a point of commonality. The closer fan-created materials are to the OTU more easily other fans can use them.

Our touchstone has walled off and all but ignored it's future since the end of TNE. I think it is past time we remedied that fault.


Regards,
Bill

1 - How successful or even canonical M:1248's attempt was is open to debate and that debate is outside the topic at hand. I believe that, while it was only partially successful and partially canonical, M:1248 should be lauded for trying in the first place.
 
While I've had fun in playing in the OTU, I've had problems with it since very early on, starting with the absurdly slow pace of technological development. And while there's been a lot of nifty work done over the years in fleshing out the OTU, a lot of it has dealt with trying to explain away things that simply don't make sense, or don't follow from the core assumptions of the setting's technology.

I think it's time to put the 3I setting to bed, and build something new, taking advantage of the lessons learned over the last 30+ years.

But I suspect I'm in the minority. I view the Traveller game as defined by the rules, and not the setting, while other folks view the setting as integral to the game itself.

(All that said, I think a movie based on the last mission of the Bard Endeavor would rock.)
 
FWIW, I liked MgT. I also liked Hard Times, as it handles the collapse of a star-spanning civilization in what I think is an effective and logical manner. Virus was a PITA as far as I was concerned, and although I bought TNE and some supplements I found I really didn't like the RCES concept. There seems something patronizing about it. :nonono:

Although MTU followed the course of the general Virus-era OTU, the players operated from the Commonwealth, a pocket empire/polity left isolated from Virus. They found and helped worlds left shattered more by the experiences of the HT collapse than the depredations of nutso AI computers and robots. It was a very satisfying campaign.

IMO the existence of a number of different interstellar states and polities would be a more logical development of the OTU. Every empire in history left a collection of disparate states on its death. There's no reason why a largely human-based one like the 3I would be any different. It would give scope for plenty of interaction between the various states and players could choose which to use or make their own, as I suspect many of us do. In future many of these may coalesce into a 4th Imperium.

A J
 
As many have pointed out, there is an awesome temporal depth and physical breadth to the OTU which can provide a nearly unending supply of setting materials. What the OTU cannot provide however is a future. The OTU's future is walled off from us and, whether you set the wall at 1130, 1201, or 1248, that wall exists just the same.

I've pointed out that the OTU is primarily a time saving device. It allows a GM to quickly tap into a deeply detailed background which they then can use to enrich their own settings. The OTU is also a touchstone, a point of commonality. The closer fan-created materials are to the OTU more easily other fans can use them.

Our touchstone has walled off and all but ignored it's future since the end of TNE. I think it is past time we remedied that fault.

Bill, that sounds like the start of a plan!

OK: The OTU circa 1500 (250 year into the future), 1248 as the base, in the Spinward Marches, T5 is the rule set ...

What's Occurring?

Regards,

Ewan
 
The difference? At the end of HT you had people clawing their way out of the rubble, they looked at that rubble and asked 'what did we do wrong?', 'what happened?' or 'we're f**ked'. They could "hold" the rubble in their hands and have a connection with it - they could look back and see what was. And if the PC's were so inclined they could help rebuild, make a killing on trade, or laughed as they watched the world burn if they wanted. Virus and TNE however turned everything to rubble and then dropped the PC's into the middle of it, handed them a shovel and said "Good luck. Oh and mind the killer robots". Sure the GM/PC's could improvise, but with the lack of framework one was fairly limited to the 'cannon' setting - the RC - without running into a myraid of problems when the next published book turns any alternative setting on its head (eg: Solee).

In both cases the PC's could be "heros" if they wanted to but the far greater choice was with HT. The smoking ruins of the Imperium had black, white and a myraid of grey zones everywhere. TNE had black, more black and a bit of (very specific) white to pick from.

But you are forgetting the Regency, are you not? That was a setting that was much closer to what came before than the RC region. The argument that all one could do in TNE was fight for survival or fend off the "killer robots" is simply not correct.
 
[...]Virus can be good, done right.

QFT.

it is impossible to satisfy everyone with a solution.

QFT.

I've never found any of the publishers to be excessively intimidated by [a particular group of Traveller fans]. Nor have I found any lack of new ideas to develop in the OTU[...]. My problem is that I find it difficult to finish my projects.

QFT.

But you are forgetting the Regency, are you not? That was a setting that was much closer to what came before than the RC region. The argument that all one could do in TNE was fight for survival or fend off the "killer robots" is simply not correct.

QFT. What comes after must resolve into interstellar government(s) of some kind.

The only thing GOOD I can see about how virus is written in TNE is that it answers the question, "Can computers be psionic?"... mostly because if not, then Virus can't propagate the way it's portrayed in rules.

Now that is very interesting.

[...]
Even jumping in the TARDIS and resetting 500 years in the future, the differences would be huge and 20+ years of slowly growing OTU material fleshing out worlds/sectors/power groups would have to be flushed down the toilet as it is no longer relevant. And the survivor groups (Marches/Hivers) would have to have a reason why they are now not Tech 17+.

To pick up the pieces after virus would require whoever does it to essentially rebuild the entire Trav “campaign universe” from scratch. [...]

The differences can be significant... on the macro scale, where setting is thin anyway. Worlds are still worlds, though, and the timeline is the timeline. We actually don't lose much, unless the worlds we know are unrecognizable -- that's not going to happen. Why bother?

And, I think a TL17+ setting is not a major problem. If it's TL17, then it's TL17. The rules have to work, but that's a mechanics issue.
 
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