Moving past the 3rd Imperium

[aramis]

Pretty much ONLY TNE fanboys appreciate virus. Even MWM avoided it by going to the other end of the imperial timeline for T4. Hunter's poll back in the dawn of the T20 project was overwhelmingly anti-virus. Every poll I've seen shows a small (about (15±5)% of overall general traveller audiences) pro-virus, a large ((50±20)% anti-virus, and the remainder simply don't care, in two broad camps (Classic Period only, non-OTU homebrew).

Simply put, for maximum market penetration, virus needs to be a non-issue. You may like it, but it was a bad idea for the majority of the fanbase, and part of why TNE attracted a majority of new-to-traveller, whilst alienating a lot of extant fanboys.

And if a milieux is to be part of the OTU, it needs an exit strategy for the Cymbeline Organism storyline, including virus. It needs to answer several questions:
1) Does the Cymbeline Chip Organism still exist in the wild?
2) Does the Cymbeline Chip Organism still exist in the lab?
3) Does the weaponized version (the Virus) still exist? (keeping in mind, a yes turns off about half of the extant fanbase)
3a) If not, WHY not?
3b) If yes, how and where?
3c) If yes, will it have present impact?

I'm advocating for 1,2,3 the answer "Yes", and for 3b, beyond the rim on high STL ships, No on 3c.

I can also see it as an excuse for any particular revision to the Jump, gravitics, and psionics mechanics one really cares to make, courtesy of the empress wave.

 

[scrabble]

Pretty much ONLY TNE fanboys appreciate virus. Even MWM avoided it by going to the other end of the imperial timeline for T4. Hunter's poll back in the dawn of the T20 project was overwhelmingly anti-virus. Every poll I've seen shows a small (about (15±5)% of overall general traveller audiences) pro-virus, a large ((50±20)% anti-virus, and the remainder simply don't care, in two broad camps (Classic Period only, non-OTU homebrew).

Polls are rather meaningless, especially on the internet. Certainly there are a lot of people here on CotI who hate Virus and TNE, but they are not necessarily representative of Traveller fandom as a whole. Unless you want to claim that every Traveller player who has ever played is a member of CotI and responded to those polls. And personally, I could not really care less about the opinions of those who dislike Virus and certainly would not let them stop me from exploring a future that involved it and that extrapolated logically from 1248.

The fact is that Virus is there in the OTU, and its popularity is irrelevant to its existence.

Simply put, for maximum market penetration, virus needs to be a non-issue.

This is not a saleable product though, and never will be. Like all of these "thought experiments", it will be discussed for a while and then people will move on. Any argument involving "the market" is completely irrelevant to the disussion.

Either we want to objectively explore the possible futures of the OTU without bias, or we want to make up an alternative version where Virus did not happen or is removed in a very amateur manner solely because of the personal agendas of a few individuals. I was under the impression that the aim of the thread was the former option.

 

[far-trader]

...Either we want to explore the possible futures of the OTU, or we want to make up an alternative version where Virus did not happen or is removed in a very amateur manner solely because of the personal agendas of a few individuals. I was under the impression that the aim of the thread was the former though.

What makes you the arbiter of all possible futures of the OTU? Why does a future where Virus is removed not fit in one of those possible futures? Class act as ever eh?

And can you drop the whole superiority stance with all the snubbing "amateur" and "ridiculous" put downs?

Either we want to objectively explore the possible futures of the OTU without bias, or we want to make up an alternative version where Virus did not happen or is removed in a very amateur manner solely because of the personal agendas of a few individuals.

Oh that's even better: "objectively" and "without bias" needs to find a mirror.

(I know I know, I couldn't help it)

 

[Blue Ghost]

Just a thought, might anyone think that Virus's aftermath was an attempt to mimic ST:TNG? Just a passing thought.

 

[Lycanorukke]

As much as I might dislike Virus, waving it away via transcendence IS ridiculous. To some degree the results have to be lived with. So what happens when a Virus "settles down"?

Idle speculation ways -

Spike Em: The empress wave apart from screwing up jump space (wether briefly or long term), also has a 'spike' in it (say at the crest of the wave) which causes a "Fatal Interrupt" in computers circuitry. For ordinary computers organics just hit the reset button and reload after a few minutes, virus is wiped as if an organic brain was switched off. Eggs may still be a problem unless the wave spikes them as well.

Age: Virus can actually die of 'old age'. Having a viral entity on a system causes the circuits to slowly degrade. Over a few this isn't noticable but over a few decades/centuries the circuitry degrades, resulting in dementia like symptoms until it just stops altogether. Since no replacement parts are available to fix the decay (if they even notice they are going senile), and any group of vampires will turn on each other for spare parts to delay the inevitable (and generally fail).

Virus gets the Virus: As a rapidly evolving 'creature' virus bears some similarities to genetic algorithms. In experiments with such code, ocassionally "parasite code" pops up. Somewhere a class 5 virus breed a parasite by accident and a computer equivilant of meningitis hits virus (as it is a virus parasite, non infected computers are immune). Virus 'dies' in record numbers (especially given how it infects everything at whim, the virus virus could do the same). The rest run for "uninfected" lands (they headed beyond the rim (tm) and avoided all communications ).

 

[scrabble]

What makes you the arbiter of all possible futures of the OTU? Why does a future where Virus is removed not fit in one of those possible futures? Class act as ever eh?

I am not saying anything of the sort. I am merely saying that Virus should not be ignored.

And can you drop the whole superiority stance with all the snubbing "amateur" and "ridiculous" put downs?

Perhaps you could also lecture others who are referring to existing work done by the likes of SJG and TNE as "drivel"? Or is it acceptable to sneer at the things that you personally dislike?
And it is "amateur", in my opinion. Both in the sense that Whipsnade is not a professional publisher, and in my opinion at least his convenient removal of Virus is not very convincing. And why should others not be able to propose their own alternatives to his 1500 idea, or criticize it? His work has no more or less merit or worth than any other person's in this discussion.

The alternative I present is to extend from 1248. Some advanced virus strains have integrated peacefully into human societies, while others have become dangerous forces to reckon with by allying with/using the K'Kree. The former show that AI and human can coexist, and offer many possibilities previously unseen in Traveller because of what are in my opinion unrealistically high TL requirements for AI. The latter are still a threat that needs to be dealt with, though by 1248 they have suffered a severe setback. Both can be extrapolated from without waving them away with magical transcendence. By 1500 perhaps human societies have become much more "transhuman", or perhaps the Lords of Thunder have become resurgent once more, or maybe they remain contained.

Perhaps this may not appeal to "the majority", but I do not feel that is any reason to stifle alternatives such as this.

Oh that's even better: "objectively" and "without bias" needs to find a mirror.

(I know I know, I couldn't help it)

Perhaps you should be setting a better example as a moderator, instead of making personal attacks (particularly when "you know" that they are attacks)? I am not interested in your "put downs".

 

[mike wightman]

I like Virus.

Probably because I've spent a lot of time coming up (with help - thanks Mr. Whipsnade ) with:

a rational for how it works (no need for psionics to explain it either)

how it is eventually accepted as a race in its own right

how it saves humanity (this bit requires a slight re-write of the 1248 setting - get rid of the large fleet battles, a different explanation of the Star Vikings' necessary evil - this is based on stuff Dave Nilsen hinted at)

how it is dealt with in the post-Black Imperium setting.

I personally wouldn't have a 4th Imperium springing up immediately after the events of 1248 (I'd be tempted to move that forward a bit too). I'd play around with a few centuries of a Spinward Regency/RC expansion while pocket empires spring up in the old Imperium.

As to the Empress wave I have my own solution to that as well.

 

[Whipsnade]

Gents,

Interesting comments from nearly everyone which provide much food for thought.

Let me point out that Virus still exists in M:1500. As I originally wrote:

There are a few examples left in a few odd corners, some of the more eccentric Mother, God, and Hobbyist strains which simply weren't interested in passing through the Singularity...

Virus still exists. In fact, Virus exists in M:1500 much like it originally existed in TNE. I'm sure everyone remembers GDW's repeated suggestions throughout the Core Book and TNE other early materials that Virus should be encountered very rarely, that those encounters should be fleeting, and that GMs shouldn't involve Virus is every single session or even every single campaign.

(Of course GDW immediately ignored their own advice, slapped Virus into nearly everything they produced after the Core Book, placed the RC astride the Vampire highway, locked the Regency behind the (laughable) Quarantine, and produced a sourcebook detailing the posthuman, cybernetic hellworld of Promise. Do as I say and not as I do. )

All I'm suggesting is that we return Virus to it's actual roots, that two and a half centuries after the Viral infested heavens of late TNE and M:1248 Virus is again as rare and as fleeting as it was originally designed to be.

Any number of things may have happened and none of them preclude the others. Virus could have evolved into something that can live with other sophonts, Virus could evolved into something that died out, the Wave could have effected Viral strains, Virus could have used up it's "biome", Virus could have passed through a Singularity particular to it's specific nature. Anything could and anything probably did happen.

Virus is till out there. Sandman's children may live at peace with sophonts, at war with sophonts, or all alone any world you choose. Hobbyist, Mother, and God strains can still single-mindedly pursue their unfathomable agendas. There can even be a berserker or three roaming the spacelanes now that the Wave has receded.

Virus is still out there, but Virus is as rare as it always was supposed to be.


Regards,
Bill

 

[E.D.Quibell]

Gents,

Well, Ewan asked the 64 CrImp question so I suppose I'll put my musings out there.

snip

Try this thought experiment. Take out any sector map you wish and place a penny on every “shirtsleeve” system. That is every system in which a population could exist for years without any outside contact. Those worlds are the ones who will begin looking outward once the Wave recedes. More importantly, those worlds will contain any society, tech level, and government you care, or dare, to dream about.

Nice. I like this. Probably because it's much like my Traveller Universe

It's certainly started some discussion!!

Regards,

Ewan

 

[E.D.Quibell]

As much as I might dislike Virus, waving it away via transcendence IS ridiculous. To some degree the results have to be lived with. So what happens when a Virus "settles down"?

I agree. While I might not like it, Virus is there and it has to "evolve".

 

[E.D.Quibell]

Idle speculation ways -

Spike Em: The empress wave apart from screwing up jump space (wether briefly or long term), also has a 'spike' in it (say at the crest of the wave) which causes a "Fatal Interrupt" in computers circuitry. For ordinary computers organics just hit the reset button and reload after a few minutes, virus is wiped as if an organic brain was switched off. Eggs may still be a problem unless the wave spikes them as well.

Age: Virus can actually die of 'old age'. Having a viral entity on a system causes the circuits to slowly degrade. Over a few this isn't noticable but over a few decades/centuries the circuitry degrades, resulting in dementia like symptoms until it just stops altogether. Since no replacement parts are available to fix the decay (if they even notice they are going senile), and any group of vampires will turn on each other for spare parts to delay the inevitable (and generally fail).

Virus gets the Virus: As a rapidly evolving 'creature' virus bears some similarities to genetic algorithms. In experiments with such code, ocassionally "parasite code" pops up. Somewhere a class 5 virus breed a parasite by accident and a computer equivilant of meningitis hits virus (as it is a virus parasite, non infected computers are immune). Virus 'dies' in record numbers (especially given how it infects everything at whim, the virus virus could do the same). The rest run for "uninfected" lands (they headed beyond the rim (tm) and avoided all communications ).

I like these suggesttions. I was thinking along simmilar lines myself.

These are just some musings, I have'nt put much thought into them, so comments welcome.

I always thought that Virus had to have some psionic element, otherwise how can it cut new pathways in scilicon?

If it's psionic it can be effected by the wave. Those strains that are bordering on insanity could be pushed over the edge and suicide, and those that arn't might have their psionic bit "spiked" a little.

This might leave us with sain AIs in the Sandman fold who can't infect other computer systems (no psionics), so how do they reproduce? Much in the same way as any other speciese, two consenting AIs come together with a blank chip and thair mating causes their latent psionic abilities to "create" a new AI on the blank chip merging the code of the orignials. (It's a bit lame I know, but quite ironic don't you think?).

Combine that with the Ageing and Virus gets Virus above, and you have a new "Race", it also means that you can have Psionic Viruses from mating again, much like you can get psionic humans, vargr etc etc.

and to ansewer these:

1) Does the Cymbeline Chip Organism still exist in the wild?
2) Does the Cymbeline Chip Organism still exist in the lab?
3) Does the weaponized version (the Virus) still exist? (keeping in mind, a yes turns off about half of the extant fanbase)
3a) If not, WHY not?
3b) If yes, how and where?
3c) If yes, will it have present impact?

1) Yes, the natural strains would survive much like humans do
2) Yes, much like having a human in a lab
3) The technology would always exist, if you do it once i think it has to still be there.
3) b) it wouldn't matter because:
3) c) you can limit it's psionic ability to infect other computer systems by psionicly shielding them, just as you can with humans, so you can protect yourself from it if you so whish.

Having this type of Virus around would thus be much like the Psionic Suppressions of the old Imperuim, and you could play around with them much in the same way as any race in the OTU with the added beinfit that they can control technology.

It might be that they prefer to run around in robot bodies to give them more freedom than flying around in spaceships.

As I said, just some initial thoughts. Comments and suggestions welcome as always.

Best Regards,

Ewan

 

[E.D.Quibell]

I like Virus.

Probably because I've spent a lot of time coming up (with help - thanks Mr. Whipsnade ) with:

a rational for how it works (no need for psionics to explain it either)

how it is eventually accepted as a race in its own right

how it saves humanity (this bit requires a slight re-write of the 1248 setting - get rid of the large fleet battles, a different explanation of the Star Vikings' necessary evil - this is based on stuff Dave Nilsen hinted at)

how it is dealt with in the post-Black Imperium setting.

I personally wouldn't have a 4th Imperium springing up immediately after the events of 1248 (I'd be tempted to move that forward a bit too). I'd play around with a few centuries of a Spinward Regency/RC expansion while pocket empires spring up in the old Imperium.

As to the Empress wave I have my own solution to that as well.

Post! Post! Share ...

Regards,

Ewan

 

[rancke]

Oh, to be sure - but at a stroke, it allows one to sweep away many of the more nonsensical aspects of the OTU, from the airless, waterless rockballs with populations in the millions or billions to the random placement of bases and X-boat routes, let alone belief snappers like Virus. Almost a tabula rasa.

Sort of like chopping off the head to cure a headache. It really wouldn't need anything that drastic to fix those nonsensical bits while keeping the huge amounts of material that have accumulated over the years that does work. You just need a "Project Manager" who's willing to retcon the inconsistencies while refraining from invalidating everything else.

I moved right past the Third Imperium into a completely different Traveller Universe. One of my own making.

I thought about doing that too. But I decided I preferred to be able to use all the great stuff that lots and lots of people have created for the OTU over the years instead of having to make it all up myself.

life of me, can't understand why anyone would find the circa 1100 imperium limiting and would want to move on to something else. could spend a lifetime in the spinward marches alone and not exhaust the gaming possibilities.

QFT.

[Virus] snaps my disbelief suspenders too hard; I can only reconcile it as psionic in nature.

I had the same problem and came up with the same solution (Except that I decided that Virus weren't the computers themselves but disembodies psionic entities whose natural habitats were high-performance computers). But once you've used magic (sorry, psionics) to "explain" Virus, the problem goes away, at least IMO. So why not keep the Virus?

Mind you, it makes little difference to me personally, because I'm sticking to the Classic Era for my campaign, so I don't really sweat anything that comes after.

Hans

 

[rancke]

As you point out, the temporal depth and physical breadth of the OTU does provide more room to play than anyone could ever hope to use...

... but it used to be even larger.

And it still is. You proved that when you posted your T:1500 outline. All you have to do to make it work is spend a few weeks or months writing a couple of hundred thousand words developing the setting and Bob's your uncle. The only problem is that you may have to write them yourself, with no one else doing any of the work for you.

Or maybe not. Maybe there are others who feel sufficiently fired by T:1500 to jump in and start writing. Maybe you can convince Mongoose Matt to do a sourcebook. And if you can, well, good for you.

I'm probably not going to one of the people who contribute, though[*]. Like flykiller, I don't see much point in moving past the Classic Era when so much of it remains unexplored. Almost everything I've worked on for a long time has been set in the GTU in Year 1120, which makes it trivially easy to use 99% of it in the OTU in Year 1115. And I'm not moving forward as the JTAS Online's TNS newsbriefs advance. I'd much rather fill in another blank than start on a whole new canvas.

[*] Not unless I get an idea for an adventure that'd only work in Milieu 1500. It could happen. But it probably won't.​

The biggest problem that the Rebellion caused me was that people stopped working on stuff that'd fit into my TU. Note that I'm not blaming GDW for doing it, I merely wish they hadn't. At least a lot of the Rebellion stuff was somewhat useful. All the stuff that I could backdate was useful. As the timeline advanced into the Hard Times, it got less and less useful (I thought Hard Times was a brilliant book, I just didn't want to abandon all the work I'd put into my old campaign for the sake of doing a HT campaign).

The 70 year jump into the future that TNE performed made practically everything published for that setting useless.

Milieu 0 and Milieu 1000 can at least contribute some historical details. I like historical details. In fact, I was hoping for some T20 stuff set in the Marches. Ah, well...

Mongoose is going back to 1105. That's quite all right by me. I just think it preferrable that they add to existing canon instead of messing it up.


Hans


PS. I'm not 100% consistent about sticking to the Classic Era, and I make no apologies for that. I've done an adventure for Milieu 0, I've done a complete setting for Milieu 400, I have several more historical settings on back burners, I did a lot of work with the TML Pocket Empire Group for TNE, I have some stuff for Milieu 1000 cooking. But unless there's a particular reason to set an adventure in another time and place, I confine myself to the Classic Era(slash GTU Year 1120).

 

[Whipsnade]

Pretty much ONLY TNE fanboys appreciate virus. Even MWM avoided it by going to the other end of the imperial timeline for T4.

Wil,

This reticence to tackle Virus is why the OTU lost it's future. Since GDW's retirement and the end of TNE, only M:1248 has had the balls to face the subject.

Simply put, for maximum market penetration, virus needs to be a non-issue.

Hence my attempt to dial Virus back for M:1500. Virus is out there but there's no Massive Evil Cybernetic Empire with an undead Lucan on the throne, no Vampire Highway, no hellworlds like Promise in every subsector.

In M:1500, Virus more resembles what it was when TNE first began: Very rare and very fleeting as the vast majority of Virus has either evolved into something less dangerous, evolved into something unrecognizable, or died out.

And if a milieux is to be part of the OTU, it needs an exit strategy for the Cymbeline Organism storyline, including virus. It needs to answer several questions:

I avoided answering these earlier because I didn't want the thread derailed. Virus has taken over the thread as if it were a Deyo Transponder however, and the Usual Suspects have arrived too, so I'll answer your questions from the viewpoint of M:1500.

1) Does the Cymbeline Chip Organism still exist in the wild?

No. The Cymbeline highlands were extensively nuked remember? The sentient wild chips were also wholly dependent on the high quality silicon materials found in the wreck of the Terran cruiser from the 7th Interstellar War. Whoever nuked the Cymbeline highlands, and my money is on Lucan, did so in order to destroy any potential enemy's ability to the Deyo research project and it's weaponized aspects. The wrecked cruiser got smeared and any naturally occurring high silicon sources got smeared too.

There may be wild chips still existing somewhere on Cymbeline, but the sentient chips and the biome that produced them are long gone.

2) Does the Cymbeline Chip Organism still exist in the lab?

Lucan was nothing if not paranoid and he felt comfortable using Omnicron as bait. It stand to reason he had other batches of sentient chips and even Virus secreted away somewhere in his Safe. All of those locations would have fallen into the "hands" of whatever it was that arose behind the Black Curtain.

The entity or entities behind the Curtain may have placed the Cymbeline organism in a "reservation" of sorts for the same sentimental reasons we show concern over the fate of the great apes and would do so if H. habilis still existed. The original Viral strain is another matter however. That strain is suicidally insane and lives in the the same "biome" as the Black Curtain entity/entities. Original Virus may not be as deadly to them as it is to us, but it's still got to be some threat so it will not have survived long after falling into the control of the Black Curtain entity/entities.

So, no explorer in M:1500 is going to turn on an ancient pinball machine and kick off another Viral Holocaust.

3) Does the weaponized version (the Virus) still exist? (keeping in mind, a yes turns off about half of the extant fanbase)

As explained above, the weaponized version would have been a danger to whatever inherited the Core from Lucan, so that version would have been destroyed.

3a) If not, WHY not?

See above.

3b) If yes, how and where?

See above.

3c) If yes, will it have present impact?

No, and see above for my reasoning.

I'm advocating for 1,2,3 the answer "Yes", and for 3b, beyond the rim on high STL ships, No on 3c.

For M:1500, my answers would be for 1 "No", for 2 "Yes" like some Tanya Gorilla Reserve, for 3 "No" because I differentiate between the original purely weaponized Virus and the later strains, and for 3c a qualified "No".

I can also see it as an excuse for any particular revision to the Jump, gravitics, and psionics mechanics one really cares to make, courtesy of the empress wave.

I don't envision revising jump, gravitics, or psionics in M:1500 because the Wave is gone. During the Wave's passage jump was increasingly difficult and then impossible, gravitics were untouched, and psionics only experienced upsets noticeable to the general public during the Wave's height. (Heavily psionically trained and using societies, i.e. the Zhos, experienced the canonical low grade, long term feelings of dread which tore them apart.)


Regards,
Bill

 

[Whipsnade]

And it still is. You proved that when you posted your T:1500 outline.

Hans,

No it isn't and I proved nothing.

This is just one small thread among thousands of threads on one of dozens of active, moribund, or dead hobby chat boards, nothing more.

Nothing I post here - as in NOTHING - is of any practical use to anyone in the manner I've been writing about and that's because the materials are not published as an official supplement.

I've been talking about the OTU regaining it's official future, the future that has been lost since GDW's retirement and the end of TNE.

There are any number of fan-produced futures of varying extent and/or quality and none of them mean a damn thing.


Regards,
Bill

P.S. Glad to see you back and I hope your password issue gets resolved soon.

 

[Whipsnade]

But once you've used magic (sorry, psionics) to "explain" Virus, the problem goes away, at least IMO.

Hans,

I'm uncomfortable with using more "magic" to clean up an existing "magic" mess.

Virus was nothing but a rabbit GDW pulled out of it's collective hat(1) in order to "clean up" the Rebellion and Hard Times. So, I don't want to pull another rabbit out of my hat(2) to clean up after Virus.

I'd much rather use that old Traveller trick and twist perceptions and labels. Nilsen didn't create another IRIS to get rid of the existing IRIS mess, he simply changed our perspective instead and rendered IRIS moot.

As I've suggested for years, we can twist perceptions and labels to "explain" the canonical descriptions of Virus' suspender-snapping abilties, so why rope in more magic?

Likewise, we know Virus evolves like something out of a Gibson novel or a Sims game, so why not use that canonical evolutionary speed to help "remove" it?

So why not keep the Virus?

I have, and I've kept it more in the manner that early TNE suggested it should be kept.


Regards,
Bill

1 - Or perhaps a certain body orifice...

2 - Or perhaps a certain body orifice...

 

[rancke]

This is just one small thread among thousands of threads on one of dozens of active, moribund, or dead hobby chat boards, nothing more.

Nothing I post here - as in NOTHING - is of any practical use to anyone in the manner I've been writing about and that's because the materials are not published as an official supplement.

What you proved was that it's possible to come up with a setting that lies further down the timeline.

Apparently you feel that the OTU only has a future if some day an official product might be published that is set somewhere later in time. But how do you know that it's not going to happen some day? T:1248 came out. T:1500 could come out one day.

I hope you'll forgive me for saying that you're not making any sense. The OTU has every bit as much of a future as it had back in the days before MT. What happens if Mongoose one day publishes T:1500? Will that give the OTU back it's future? Or will it still not have one because no one is planning to publish T:1600?

A separate, albeit linked, issue is that IMO the OTU doesn't need a future, for reasons I tried to expound in my previous post.


Hans

 

[rancke]

Virus was nothing but a rabbit GDW pulled out of it's collective hat(1) in order to "clean up" the Rebellion and Hard Times. So, I don't want to pull another rabbit out of my hat(2) to clean up after Virus.

But once you're not bogged down in suspension of disbelief issues, Virus has a LOT of potential. A friend of mine did an absolutely magnificient convention scenario involving Virus some years back that was one of the best Traveller adventures I've ever played. The whole 'genealogy' of Virus is just loaded with possibilities. Doomslayers, Mothers, Hobbyists, Gods, etc. There's so much you can do with Virus that it would be a real pity to get rid of it.


Hans

 

[Whipsnade]

What you proved was that it's possible to come up with a setting that lies further down the timeline.

Hans,

Folks have been "proving" that ever since the First Three LBBs came out.

Apparently you feel that the OTU only has a future if some day an official product might be published...

No.

Once again, the OTU only has an official future if some day an official product is published.

There's been no official future since GDW retired and TNE ended.

What happens if Mongoose one day publishes T:1500? Will that give the OTU back it's future?

They'll ⌧ it up as usual, their rules are quite serviceable while their source books are utter shit. However, even if the OTU's future gets "Mongoosed", at least the OTU will have an official published future again.

A separate, albeit linked, issue is that IMO the OTU doesn't need a future, for reasons I tried to expound in my previous post.

The OTU had a future for longer than it hasn't. As I explained to Fly, it's matter of differing infinities. While the future-less OTU is infinite, an OTU with a future is more infinite.


Regards,
Bill