Multiclassing

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by princelian:
Let's look at your level 10 character there. Academics have a BAB of +1/4 levels, so an 8th level Academic has a BAB of +2. Other classes with a +1/4 BAB progression are Diplomat, Engineer, Entertainer, Medic, Merchant, and Professional. The others all have at least a +1/2 BAB, so if this character has only 2 levels in ANY of the others, he'll have a +3 BAB. Therefore, the only possible character combination that, at 10th level, has a +2 BAB must be Academic/other_non_combatant_class.

However, the effect you're talking about comes from the early +0 in any class on the BAB progression. I recommend you do what I do, which is to add up all the fractional BAB's and then round off at the end.

Nope. After I warn them about Multi-classing and how it never appears to work as well as people think it will and I give them my thoughts on how to best create successful characters (such as pick a handful of skills they want to be good at and specialize in those), if they want to go the multi-classing route, and scatter things all over the map, it is on them and I don't see the point of making allowances for it. I am leaving the rules for that alone, you get your +1 when the class gives you the +1 and when you get into a bar fight, you better hide under a table or hope the Marine in the party can clear the room before you get hurt. Besides it isn't just a matter of BAB, it is also how the skills fall.

Like I said it is a matter of choice and timing. It is funny that after playing a while, the multi-classing generally stops. I have only seen one character take levels in two different classes after mustering out. (The Scout/Ace Pilot.)

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by Savar:
1 level of the class named in the prior history per 2 or 3 terms sounds good

Actually I do it as for every three levels you take, one must be in the class associated with the prior history track you are in. You can't base it on terms, as that can drop to only one level per two or three terms, or early on, 2-4 levels per term. So it is one level out of three levels that I restrict. (And it rarely comes up as most people pick a career based on what they want their primary class to be.)

 

[stofsk]

Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
BTW Rogue/Merchant doesn't work well and isn't what people really want when they choose that combination, almost strictly based on the class names. Properly timed Mercenary/Merchant is the Han Solo type.

What do you base this on? Han Solo is a smuggler, an ace pilot, who's good in a fight and in the gunner's seat. What he doesn't do is fly a large trader, make deals, broker cargo and so on. (The Millenium Falcon is only good for passengers and light cargo, as well as smuggled goods - it's a lot like the Type S)

The class breakdown would look like Rogue/Merc and maybe a little bit of Ace Pilot thrown in. But the Rogue part is important.

Although to follow Han Solo the character as closely as possible, you could even add a level of Navy in there as well, to reflect how he was a pilot in the Imperial Starfighter Corps.

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by stofsk:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
BTW Rogue/Merchant doesn't work well and isn't what people really want when they choose that combination, almost strictly based on the class names. Properly timed Mercenary/Merchant is the Han Solo type.

What do you base this on? Han Solo is a smuggler, an ace pilot, who's good in a fight and in the gunner's seat. What he doesn't do is fly a large trader, make deals, broker cargo and so on. (The Millenium Falcon is only good for passengers and light cargo, as well as smuggled goods - it's a lot like the Type S)

The class breakdown would look like Rogue/Merc and maybe a little bit of Ace Pilot thrown in. But the Rogue part is important.

Although to follow Han Solo the character as closely as possible, you could even add a level of Navy in there as well, to reflect how he was a pilot in the Imperial Starfighter Corps. </font>[/QUOTE]In the name of the class perhaps, but as far as demonstrated skills, the skills he appears to have are Mercenary Class skills.

The Rogue Class skills he appears to posses are also Mercenary Class skills, making Rogue in this case redundant. I personally have never considered him a Merchant. After all, in none of the movies did he ever deliver passengers or cargo to the intended destination.

There is plenty of indication to call him a Mercenary though.

You can call him a Rogue, but that doesn't have the same meaning as Rogue class. He isn't a thief, in fact he lacks most of the traditional skills associated with the Rogue class.

I would be more inclined to grant him Merchant status than Rogue Status. (It is supposedly a Merchant ship, even if it is never used in that manner during the movies.

)

Don't let the names of the classes fool you. Look at what the classes actual advantages and disadvantages are.

For example to gain typical Special Forces stealth skills for either Army or Marines, add a couple of levels of Mercenary. That doesn't necessarily mean that the Marine was actually a Mercenary while serving on active duty as a Marine, but the skill set came from Commando experience. (That combination is one of the few combinations where the classes are sufficiently parallel that the player doesn't suffer much from the second class.) Even with that combination I wouldn't take more than 2 levels as a Merc while going through Marine Prior History and get most of the levels as a Marine.

 

[stofsk]

Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
In the name of the class perhaps, but as far as demonstrated skills, the skills he appears to have are Mercenary Class skills.

The Rogue Class skills he appears to posses are also Mercenary Class skills, making Rogue in this case redundant.

Not quite. The Rogue has several feats - I'm thinking of Smuggling in particular - available to it and not the Merc or Merch classes. So I don't think it's redundant, because Han is a smuggler.

I personally have never considered him a Merchant. After all, in none of the movies did he ever deliver passengers or cargo to the intended destination.

There is plenty of indication to call him a Mercenary though.

You can call him a Rogue, but that doesn't have the same meaning as Rogue class. He isn't a thief, in fact he lacks most of the traditional skills associated with the Rogue class.

Rogue doesn't necessarily mean thief. He's also a merc too, but like I said before he's also a smuggler - that's why he had secret compartments on the Falcon. In some of the better EU books, Han and Chewie sneak around and steal shit - note that in ROTJ Han boasted to Leia "Chewie and I have snuck into more heavily guarded places than this."

I would be more inclined to grant him Merchant status than Rogue Status. (It is supposedly a Merchant ship, even if it is never used in that manner during the movies.

)

I'm just comparing the two classes - Rogue and Merch - and their feats, and the Merch doesn't have much similarity to his character. Han isn't seen bartering, or brokering, or playing the stock market, or acting like a steward onboard a large Merchie ship. The Falcon is a civilian transport, but it's not really set up to carry large cargo most of the time (a bulk cargo container is meant to be 'grabbed' in between those two pointy things at the front of the Falcon.) so it probably gets by with smuggled goods, light cargo, and passengers.

Don't let the names of the classes fool you. Look at what the classes actual advantages and disadvantages are.

I have I just don't see Merch in him.

Rogue/Merc (with Rogue being his initial class to reflect his upbringing) comes closest to describing Han. Add in Ace Pilot and also a single term in the Navy which he failed the survival roll on (roll the mishap as dishonourable discharge - sticking up for Chewie cost him his career but at least he got a walking rug as a friend out of it).

 

[Lochlaber]

Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Lochlaber:
Excuse me but I don't agree about the getting the extra skills and feats only once. Specific mention is made in a large number of the classes that you don't get the extra feats/skills while multi-classing (Traveller, Noble, Academic, Professional), there are a number, Belter, Marine, Navy, Army which do not make this distinction and AFAIK, nothing changed this.

I don't believe I saw it in the Errata but Hunter mentioned it somewhere on here. It does not appear in the intention of the rules. It is covered in the D20 CORE rulebook that you don't get the 4 x skills. </font>[/QUOTE]It isn't in the errata that I've seen so it isn't canon. If Hunter did mention it, I haven't seen it, nor has it been used to modify the errata and I go by the written version, until over-ruled by more written versions from the source. It isn't to say I don't trust this belief but until I see written evidence to the point, I consider it simply IYTU andn ot canon.

As for the core D20 rulebook, there are lot of things that don't translate directly, especially when dealing with the classes and character generation, so I follow the T20 rules for these, other why have them at all.

I will admit I have never thought of multi-classing in more than 2 core classes was a good idea but since by the rules (D&D) there was the nasty exp penalties that made sense. Of course elite classes make it easy to expand your character but even then don't go to far.

 

[GypsyComet]

The 4x skill points happens exactly ONCE, at CHARACTER LEVEL ONE.

The other aspects of taking a new CLASS apply each time that happens, so the bonus feats associated with a level 1 Rogue (as opposed to a level 1 *character*) do not stop you from getting the bonus feats associated with taking your first level of, say, Mercenary.

Despite the uneven application of statements to this effect, it does apply universally, exactly as the D&D PHB (the D20 core rulebook T20 was written to, because D20M didn't exist yet) describes.

Allowing multi-class characters a second or third incidence of the 4x skill point boost of a 1st level character drops a huge skill advantage in their laps, penalizing specialists severely. This is why D&D doesn't allow it, and neither does T20.

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by Lochlaber:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Lochlaber:
Excuse me but I don't agree about the getting the extra skills and feats only once. Specific mention is made in a large number of the classes that you don't get the extra feats/skills while multi-classing (Traveller, Noble, Academic, Professional), there are a number, Belter, Marine, Navy, Army which do not make this distinction and AFAIK, nothing changed this.

I don't believe I saw it in the Errata but Hunter mentioned it somewhere on here. It does not appear in the intention of the rules. It is covered in the D20 CORE rulebook that you don't get the 4 x skills. </font>[/QUOTE]It isn't in the errata that I've seen so it isn't canon. If Hunter did mention it, I haven't seen it, nor has it been used to modify the errata and I go by the written version, until over-ruled by more written versions from the source. It isn't to say I don't trust this belief but until I see written evidence to the point, I consider it simply IYTU andn ot canon.

As for the core D20 rulebook, there are lot of things that don't translate directly, especially when dealing with the classes and character generation, so I follow the T20 rules for these, other why have them at all.</font>[/QUOTE]Except that when T20 changes something from the Core D20 rules it specifically states so. In this case it doesn't so state. However, YTU do what you want.

However since you want to play by the written rules, what are you going to do when the TGP comes out and clarifies everything so the intention is the same as the written rules?

 

[Lochlaber]

Grandfather the characters previously generated of course. I am not going to go back and re-do 2 year old characters who have a 10+ character year experience.

As for the specifically changing things, they did. They specifically said some characters could not multi-class and gain the advantage, which must mean those not specifically forbidden to do so, could.

Since the entire character generation rule set was set out for T-20, I followed the specific rules as I do all rpg's. It may have been a mistake but what the heck, it worked for my characters.