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New version of TravellerWorlds

OjnoTheRed

SOC-13
Marquis
There is a new version of TravellerWorlds out. http://members.ozemail.com.au/~jonoreita/TravellerWorlds/.

In this update, you can now edit all the details of each star, Gas Giant and Asteroid / Planetoid Belt in the star system. That means you can now edit any object in the system except for Rings. Belts now have Belt Maps that show the size of the different Zones. More detail in the Change Log.

Remember, the easiest way to navigate to TravellerWorlds is via travellermap.com and click on a world, expand the details and select "Generate World Map" at the bottom.

As usual, please let me know of any bugs or malfunctions. I run the code many times before release but there are always combinations that I did not run.
 
Nice save! (That is to say, I like the "save star system" function.)

Is there a way to export/share it through the TW interface, or is the only option to download it and share the downloaded version?
 
I was thinking about this tbe other day. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to click on a link to a saved system and have it load up with TW?

I don't think I can make it happen because TW is entirely client-side; there's no server side code at all. At present the only option is to share the download and then someone else re-uploads it manually. But there might be a way in future.
 
I was thinking about this tbe other day. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to click on a link to a saved system and have it load up with TW?

I don't think I can make it happen because TW is entirely client-side; there's no server side code at all. At present the only option is to share the download and then someone else re-uploads it manually. But there might be a way in future.
Could you include a notice that indicates that a given world (say, if the inbound link is from Travellermap) has a Traveller Wiki entry containing an uploaded, edited file?

The idea is to park the file containing the edited version in the Wiki metadata page, then allow a link from there to reconstruct the TW page from the saved file.

This would require some verification, of course.
 
Oooh! Just had another idea. How about outputting details in Wiki format that cpuld be used as a skeleton for writing up a system that's compatible with the Traveller Wiki? Don't want to create chaos on the Wiki ... but if it helps with the calculations (which can be a drag doing by hand) ...
 
I would like to be able to generate and manage my own universe but strictly files on my side to avoid cross contamination…
Are you after something like a sector / subsector generator and editor where you can download and save data in a similar way as you can for worlds? I've got an experimental subsector generator up under the Generate menu.
 
Are you after something like a sector / subsector generator and editor where you can download and save data in a similar way as you can for worlds? I've got an experimental subsector generator up under the Generate menu.
More like I enter the data and utilize/tailor the systemgen elements.
 
More like I enter the data and utilize/tailor the systemgen elements.
I'm not sure if this suits your needs, but if you go to the Generate menu and choose "New Star System", you can enter a world name, UWP and other details yourself, and then click on "Make System and map." You can also enter just a few details and click Generate Missing World Details for the remaining details to be generated for you. You can then edit the generated system to your heart's content - deleting objects, changing values, editing maps and so on.

If you use it and find something that's annoying you'd like changed, let me know. If something different would suit better, also let me know!
 
Here's one for you ... Kinorb/Regina/Spinward Marches.

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~jonoreita/TravellerWorlds/?hex=2202&sector=Spinward%20Marches&name=Kinorb&uwp=A663659-8&tc=Ni&tc=Ri&iX=&eX=(C54%2B1)&cX=%5B7669%5D&pbg=622&worlds=7&bases=&travelZone=&nobz=BC&allegiance=ImDd&stellar=G7%20V&seed=22022202&place_nobz=1

Kinorb is supposed to be a Non-industrial, Rich world.
But then the map generates things like this using the seed included in the link from Travellermap ...

uvQWbGo.png


37H5qIu.png


And I look at those temperature numbers and think ... this world is NOT HABITABLE without resorting to extensive life support infrastructure.



Additionally, this link is still broken on every page generated.

CRqqqiL.png
 
Here's one for you ... Kinorb/Regina/Spinward Marches.

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~jonoreita/TravellerWorlds/?hex=2202&sector=Spinward%20Marches&name=Kinorb&uwp=A663659-8&tc=Ni&tc=Ri&iX=&eX=(C54%2B1)&cX=%5B7669%5D&pbg=622&worlds=7&bases=&travelZone=&nobz=BC&allegiance=ImDd&stellar=G7%20V&seed=22022202&place_nobz=1

Kinorb is supposed to be a Non-industrial, Rich world.
But then the map generates things like this using the seed included in the link from Travellermap ...

uvQWbGo.png


37H5qIu.png


And I look at those temperature numbers and think ... this world is NOT HABITABLE without resorting to extensive life support infrastructure.



Additionally, this link is still broken on every page generated.

CRqqqiL.png
TravellerWorlds is a random generator with full editing capability. In this case, my approach would be to lower the axial tilt, move the planet further from the star, and/or up the albedo if you are worried about the temperature. Alternately, the poles don't look too bad, so I'd edit the map to put the one town and the noble estate there.

Randomly generated results are rarely able to be used "as is". TravellerWorlds is intended to be a help to the Referee to crunch the numbers rather than produce authoritative results.

The link to Thomas' post would be broken because of the changes to Citizens of the Imperium. I am thinking of removing that paragraph entirely.
 
Hi. first of all, thanks for creating this great tool, it is a great resource for helping calculate many factors in the star system, for the more hard sci-fi oriented games.

With that said I'm having a little trouble with a few things that I encountered,
  1. When importing data from Traveller maps to create a new system using the "New Star System" button, the system created have the wrong number of planets. Because the total number of worlds should take in consideration the number of gas giants and the mainworld (if this world is not a satellite), for example, in the system of Regina in the Spinward marches subsector, the system is described as having 1 mainworld (satellite), 0 planetoid belts, 3 gas giants, and 8 worlds. So, the total number of worlds that are not gas giants should be 5 (as seen in the book from Classic Traveller, book 06 Scouts, pag 55), 8 worlds - 3 gas giants - 0 mainworld (because it is a satellite). But the generator uses the number 8 as a total, generating 8 worlds besides the gas giants, this can be easily fixed by manually correcting the imported value, so I don’t really see it as a bug, I just thought it was worth mentioning
  2. After generating the system from the imported data, if I press the “Regenerate system (current seed)” button the system changes even without changing anything else in the system, by exporting the data to JSON before and after the “Regenerate system (current seed)” button is pressed and then analyzing the results is possible to see that many changes occurred in the system code, most notably the seed actually changed from “19101910” to 19101910, which in turn makes many other changes to the system and to the JSON file. Like the changes in the star position, from being the F7V star as primary with the D star as secondary and the M3V star as a companion of the secondary, to the F7V as primary with the D star as a companion, and the M3V as a secondary, which is coincidently is the “canon” position of these stars in Classic Traveller as stated in the book 6 Scouts and in the mongoose 2md edition version as stated in Behind the Claw. Also clicking the “Regenerate system (current seed)” button scrubs one of the gas giants, even if theoretically the generator is still being told to produce 3 gas giants.
    Again this is not a game breaking bug but it annoys me a lot because it prevents me from using the “Regenerate system (current seed)” button because the current seed is not kept. Which I would really like to use to be able to change the position of the stars in the system, since we can’t change which star is primary which is companion and which is secondary manually.
  3. With the previous item in mind, controls that allowed to change the star position from primary to secondary to tertiary to a companion of any of the precious would be greatly appreciated.
  4. After exporting a system with multiple stars to JSON or saving the star system in the database (since this is actually the same process) and loading the system back by re-importing the JSON or loading the system in the database, the position of the stars get messed up, companions get tagged with primary making two primaries in orbit of one another, in the case of Regina with the seed “19101910”, or even worse copying the companion to both stars and changing them to primary making it a 4 star system in the case of Regina with the seed 19101910. To me this is the worst bug I have encountered so far, because it is really hard to continue working in the same system over multiple sessions if the save/ load function doesn’t produce the same result consistently.
  5. When generating maps for the worlds it seems that if the neighbor hexes of a certain hex don’t change much, the child hex that you get by clicking in the hex is always the same. In worlds with many resources and a jagged coastline this is not really an issue since the neighbor hexes change a lot but in worlds which have one type of the terrain that forms the majority of the planet like desert worlds for example, it makes the child hexes all the same. Also, features in the child hex never go to the border of the parent hex, making what should be a mountain range into many separated mountains when you look in the child hex, or a large swamp into many tiny swamps in a plain. I understand that making changes to the map making algorithm is probably a lot of work and that I can change this manually, just thought that it was worth mentioning because this reduces the usability of this function for a lot for parties that stay a long time in the same world going to many places there, or for games that use this for something akin to hexcrawl.
With all that said, sorry for the wall of text, and if I find any other bugs I can post them here if you want to see if you think that they are really bugs that are worth correcting (or just me not understanding how the tool should be used), and thanks again for this great tool.
 
Hi. first of all, thanks for creating this great tool, it is a great resource for helping calculate many factors in the star system, for the more hard sci-fi oriented games.

With that said I'm having a little trouble with a few things that I encountered,
  1. When importing data from Traveller maps to create a new system using the "New Star System" button, the system created have the wrong number of planets. Because the total number of worlds should take in consideration the number of gas giants and the mainworld (if this world is not a satellite), for example, in the system of Regina in the Spinward marches subsector, the system is described as having 1 mainworld (satellite), 0 planetoid belts, 3 gas giants, and 8 worlds. So, the total number of worlds that are not gas giants should be 5 (as seen in the book from Classic Traveller, book 06 Scouts, pag 55), 8 worlds - 3 gas giants - 0 mainworld (because it is a satellite). But the generator uses the number 8 as a total, generating 8 worlds besides the gas giants, this can be easily fixed by manually correcting the imported value, so I don’t really see it as a bug, I just thought it was worth mentioning
  2. After generating the system from the imported data, if I press the “Regenerate system (current seed)” button the system changes even without changing anything else in the system, by exporting the data to JSON before and after the “Regenerate system (current seed)” button is pressed and then analyzing the results is possible to see that many changes occurred in the system code, most notably the seed actually changed from “19101910” to 19101910, which in turn makes many other changes to the system and to the JSON file. Like the changes in the star position, from being the F7V star as primary with the D star as secondary and the M3V star as a companion of the secondary, to the F7V as primary with the D star as a companion, and the M3V as a secondary, which is coincidently is the “canon” position of these stars in Classic Traveller as stated in the book 6 Scouts and in the mongoose 2md edition version as stated in Behind the Claw. Also clicking the “Regenerate system (current seed)” button scrubs one of the gas giants, even if theoretically the generator is still being told to produce 3 gas giants.
    Again this is not a game breaking bug but it annoys me a lot because it prevents me from using the “Regenerate system (current seed)” button because the current seed is not kept. Which I would really like to use to be able to change the position of the stars in the system, since we can’t change which star is primary which is companion and which is secondary manually.
  3. With the previous item in mind, controls that allowed to change the star position from primary to secondary to tertiary to a companion of any of the precious would be greatly appreciated.
  4. After exporting a system with multiple stars to JSON or saving the star system in the database (since this is actually the same process) and loading the system back by re-importing the JSON or loading the system in the database, the position of the stars get messed up, companions get tagged with primary making two primaries in orbit of one another, in the case of Regina with the seed “19101910”, or even worse copying the companion to both stars and changing them to primary making it a 4 star system in the case of Regina with the seed 19101910. To me this is the worst bug I have encountered so far, because it is really hard to continue working in the same system over multiple sessions if the save/ load function doesn’t produce the same result consistently.
  5. When generating maps for the worlds it seems that if the neighbor hexes of a certain hex don’t change much, the child hex that you get by clicking in the hex is always the same. In worlds with many resources and a jagged coastline this is not really an issue since the neighbor hexes change a lot but in worlds which have one type of the terrain that forms the majority of the planet like desert worlds for example, it makes the child hexes all the same. Also, features in the child hex never go to the border of the parent hex, making what should be a mountain range into many separated mountains when you look in the child hex, or a large swamp into many tiny swamps in a plain. I understand that making changes to the map making algorithm is probably a lot of work and that I can change this manually, just thought that it was worth mentioning because this reduces the usability of this function for a lot for parties that stay a long time in the same world going to many places there, or for games that use this for something akin to hexcrawl.
With all that said, sorry for the wall of text, and if I find any other bugs I can post them here if you want to see if you think that they are really bugs that are worth correcting (or just me not understanding how the tool should be used), and thanks again for this great tool.
Thank you so much for taking the time to give detailed feedback.

1. Number of worlds vs. number of planets: I'm going by the T5 rules, where the "W" value (for worlds) is in addition to the gas giants, belts and the main world. It is generated by rolling 2D. The existing data on TravellerMap has been audited (the T5SS) and the W value is worlds in addition to the gas giants and belts. Satellites are on top of this value. Different editions have had a different approach to this: in Book 6 Scouts (p. 35) and MegaTraveller, Referee's Manual (p. 28) all available orbits around a star are filled after placing gas giants, belts, the main world, and empty orbits. This typically results in around 6 or 7 extra worlds on top of other objects - but it depends on several factors including the size of the star.

2. That is definitely a bug, thank for reporting it! I will investigate - I have an idea as to what might be the cause.

3. I will add that to my to-do list. You can already modify the orbit of a secondary, tertiary or quaternary star system to push it further or closer to the primary. But at present you cannot change a companion of any of those to another position. I will change this.

4. Oh, dang. That's a bad bug. I will look into that as soon as I can. It may be related to number 2 above.

5. Yeah - this is because I've just implemented the T5 rules as written, which produces the same overall pattern with only a few minor variations, and for many, many templates no variations at all. The T5 RAW are meant for a Referee who's after a quick solution to keep the game moving; we can do better with a random terrain generator. This is on my radar in a broad way, but I'll add it to my enhancement to-do list for sure.
 
1. Number of worlds vs. number of planets: I'm going by the T5 rules, where the "W" value (for worlds) is in addition to the gas giants, belts and the main world. It is generated by rolling 2D. The existing data on TravellerMap has been audited (the T5SS) and the W value is worlds in addition to the gas giants and belts.
That's not quite correct. The W value in T5SS data is computed as 1 (MainWorld) + GasGiants + Belts + 2D.

For example, Terra (SOLO 1827) has W=10, GG=4 and Belts=1, so conceptually a 4 was rolled on 2D. The system has 1 MainWorld (Terra itself), 4 Gas Giants, 1 Planetoid Belt, and 4 "other" worlds. (CT Book 6 includes Pluto.)

Regina (SPIN 1910) has W=8, GG=3, Belts=0, so conceptually a 3 was rolled on 2D. The system has 1 MainWorld, 3 Gas Giants, 0 Planetoid Belts, and 4 "other" worlds. Note that in the case where the MainWorld is a Satellite, the T5SS W count includes it even though GG satellites usually aren't - this differs from the description CT Book 6 which gives 8 worlds but doesn't count Regina itself. Possible errata for T5SS?
 
For example, Terra (SOLO 1827) has W=10, GG=4 and Belts=1, so conceptually a 4 was rolled on 2D. The system has 1 MainWorld (Terra itself), 4 Gas Giants, 1 Planetoid Belt, and 4 "other" worlds. (CT Book 6 includes Pluto.)

I'd argue that the Kuiper Belt is the replacment for Pluto - but that would mean Terra needs a second belt.
 
That's not quite correct. The W value in T5SS data is computed as 1 (MainWorld) + GasGiants + Belts + 2D.

For example, Terra (SOLO 1827) has W=10, GG=4 and Belts=1, so conceptually a 4 was rolled on 2D. The system has 1 MainWorld (Terra itself), 4 Gas Giants, 1 Planetoid Belt, and 4 "other" worlds. (CT Book 6 includes Pluto.)

Regina (SPIN 1910) has W=8, GG=3, Belts=0, so conceptually a 3 was rolled on 2D. The system has 1 MainWorld, 3 Gas Giants, 0 Planetoid Belts, and 4 "other" worlds. Note that in the case where the MainWorld is a Satellite, the T5SS W count includes it even though GG satellites usually aren't - this differs from the description CT Book 6 which gives 8 worlds but doesn't count Regina itself. Possible errata for T5SS?
I stand corrected! That's a bug in TravellerWorlds - I'll push out a correction (easy fix).
 
OK, working on the bugs and changes - I'll use Muji_k's list. There's some things in here that are doing my head in. But - I want to say, thanks again Muji_k for your great descriptions of the problems, it makes it really easy to replicate the problems. I also apologise for the number of worlds vs. number of planets matter - I was wrong. Thank you also to Josh for pointing this out.

No changes have been released yet.

1. Fixed this - easily done.
2. I have a partial fix on this - I have coerced the seed at every point into an integer; it will save in data files as JSON as a string, but when it is read back, it is definitely the integer every time, not a string, verified with console.log at the point where the seed is used to initiate the RNG. What's doing my head in is that now, the system generation (not the world map) is different every time I refresh the page with the "GET" data set to the Regina details. When I select "Regenerate System (current seed)" it changes it again! Then when I continue to select "Regenerate System (current seed)" it then regenerates without changes from that second version. And each time I have a message verifying it's the same seed as an integer being used. On the other hand, the world map is operating completely as expected: the map changes with a new seed, but the same map is always generated with the same seed. For the life of me I cannot see why the system generation is operating this way.
3. No coding as yet - but it is on my to-do list.
4. This was a case of using the string value saved in the JSON for the seed instead of converting it to an integer first; fixed. Saving and loading works now (in my own code, not released yet).
5. No coding as yet - but it is on my to-do list.
 
I finally figured it all out! I was not being careful about where generation started and making sure every last aspect happened only after the random number generator was initiated with the desired seed. Restructured the code to fix it.

New version has released with Muji_k's items 1, 2 and 4 fixed; 3 and 5 are now on my to-do list.

Having said this, I've run it on a few systems and I may be missing things. I've been staring at this for too long. I'd very much like other pairs of eyes over this to verify I've fixed these things. As always, please message me here or email me (contact details on TravellerWorlds) with any bugs or enhancement requests.

Many thanks again for the excellent descriptions Muji_k that let me replicate the problem and then fix it.
 
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