Nobility
- Thread starter tjoneslo
- Start date
Something got misaligned when you updated the table for Baronets [Soc=12(c)]
The table currently reads:
| Code | Ranking Noble | Social Rating |
| c Baronet | C (12) | B (11) |
It should read:
| Code | Ranking Noble | Social Rating |
| c Baronet | Baronet/Baronetess | C (12) |
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
The prior definition of High Noble, as put forth in GT Nobles, translates to the new term of Landed with the exception of the exceptions, seen in a short paragraph on page 12.
To wit:
There are Landed Knights now, as they replace the older system of a High Baron on (most) every world, and
There have been non-Landed Archdukes, though there is only one family line so documented, they were converted to Landed status by Strephon, and were arguably so special a case as to be unique.
A few other significant changes in the Noble structure are not applied to the High/Landed directly:
The Landed Peerage (which does NOT include Landed Knights) are the only Nobles with automatic membership in the Moot; the Ceremonial/Rank and Honor Nobility are not members of the Moot as a group, though a few specific Ceremonial Noble positions have been granted that membership over the years, or been granted a minor Landed position to accomplish the same end. Landed Knights are not voting members of the Moot but do have Right of Entry to the Moot Spire. This perk is rarely used since most Landed Knights are homebodies by inclination and job description.
All other Nobles and non-Nobles must technically be invited, though this can be as informal as accompanying a Moot member into the Spire.
Did you mean Emperor Artemsus (who established the 6 original Domains and their Archducal overseers), or am I misunderstanding completely?
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
Artemsus and the Grand-Arch-Old Dukes is a bit different, coming as it did during the shakedown period of the early Imperium.
The case I'm thinking of is the Adair family. Granted what was essentially a Rank/Ceremonial Archducal status as Warden of the Sol Marches following the Rim War (and thus during the period when the Domains were essentially just a paper distinction), they were effectively the Archdukes of Sol in all save the specifics of their title. Strephon fixed that as part of restoring the Domains.
This is new detail as of Imperiallines 7. Archduke Kieran Adair is the first "Archduke of Sol" despite being the fourth generation of the rank in his family. This also plays into his narrative (in GT Nobles) of moving the Domain capital and displacing a Sector Duke to fill the role himself.
The case I'm thinking of is the Adair family. Granted what was essentially a Rank/Ceremonial Archducal status as Warden of the Sol Marches following the Rim War (and thus during the period when the Domains were essentially just a paper distinction), they were effectively the Archdukes of Sol in all save the specifics of their title. Strephon fixed that as part of restoring the Domains.
This is new detail as of Imperiallines 7. Archduke Kieran Adair is the first "Archduke of Sol" despite being the fourth generation of the rank in his family. This also plays into his narrative (in GT Nobles) of moving the Domain capital and displacing a Sector Duke to fill the role himself.
Look at the percentages of Nobles in the UK vs Imperial Germany/pre-Imperial Germany, China, Japan (Daimyo/Hatamoto/Kuge) as a percentage of the population. The UK had a "more successful" nobility since they were a smaller percentage of the population. Essentially by the 3rd Generation, unless you were in direct line, you became a commoner, compared to the German method of "once a noble, always a noble" where you had a bloated noble class.
*** The T5SS codes for nobility (i.e. BEF), what do they represent? ***
*** I think of them as "Local Nobility", specific to a world, but are they rank or honor nobility? ***
*** What would be the best title for them? ***
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
*** I think of them as "Local Nobility", specific to a world, but are they rank or honor nobility? ***
*** What would be the best title for them? ***
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
The Noble codes in T5 UWPs are the Imperial High/Landed titles associated with that world. They do not represent Honor or ceremonial titles, or place any limits on those. "Local" rulership is going to be entirely based on local government type. A world could have the whole gamut of titles represented in the local government, but not a one of them is necessarily represented by the Noble codes in the UWP.
So a "BEF" code means the world has an Imperial Knight ("B") in residence, is the seat of a High/Landed Count ("E") who may have reach and responsibility across several worlds, and is important enough to also have a Landed Duke ("F") in residence, with responsibility for the subsector or some similar area about the same size (though that would usually be shown as "f"). "In Residence" theoretically means this world is their home and location of their primary offices and staff. The Knight probably doesn't travel much, but the Count may move around his worlds and the Duke around his. One of them may also spend a lot of their time at Capital representing the area in the Moot.
So a "BEF" code means the world has an Imperial Knight ("B") in residence, is the seat of a High/Landed Count ("E") who may have reach and responsibility across several worlds, and is important enough to also have a Landed Duke ("F") in residence, with responsibility for the subsector or some similar area about the same size (though that would usually be shown as "f"). "In Residence" theoretically means this world is their home and location of their primary offices and staff. The Knight probably doesn't travel much, but the Count may move around his worlds and the Duke around his. One of them may also spend a lot of their time at Capital representing the area in the Moot.
Drakon
SOC-14 1K
GypsyComet defined the nobility code specifics. My understanding is that these are the Imperial representives, who vote in the moot (except the knights) and act as intermediary between the Imperium and the world in question. This is the kind of noble the T5 rules talk about, primarily.
This noble may or may not be part of the local government, or have a title in the local government. Arguments can be made both ways, depending on the needs of the GM.
How important that Imperial go between is depends on the population of the world. The baron of a planet with a population in the thousands would be of more importance than on a planet with the population of a billion. Smaller population colonies would be more reliant on interstellar trade and the Imperium, than larger population worlds.
At least that is my take.
The Local Nobles are folks who are nobles only on their own worlds and not the greater Imperium. High, ranked and landed nobles are really the same. High nobles are granted estates to serve as the imperial noble's paycheck, while they take care of Imperial business.
The honor nobles are not landed, nor required to work as the Imperium's representative. Honor nobles are folks like Sir Elton John and Sir Paul McCartney, elevated based on the popularity of their talents or their importance in Imperial culture.
For Dukes, its "Your Grace" for Counts to Baronets its "My Lord" or "My Lady", and Knights are called "Sir' or "Dame".
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
A High Pop world *might* still have a Baron, but it will also have a Count or Viscount. The table is in T5.
Agent changes this somewhat...
Last edited:
Thank you, Jim.
Please take a look at this:
External Link: [http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Miku_(Vl_1743)_(world)) ]
*** Should the world entry that now reads "local nobility" be rephrased in your opinion? Would "Imperial High (Landed) Nobility" be more accurate? That essentially means "rank nobility", correct? ***
Great Explanation. Thank you again!
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
Last edited:
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
High = Landed
Rank = Ceremonial
That world is at 1734. There is no 1743.
The full UWP for Miku lists only a Knight, so the only High/Landed Nobility directly associated with Miku is that Knight. Knighthoods are not hereditary by default. Miku might also fall under the less direct influence of a Marquis, Viscount, or Count, and is of course within the territory overseen by a Duke. While the higher Landed Nobility from nearby might have an office at the Port, it will be a business office and mail drop more than anything.
A world like Miku might also have a Rank/Ceremonial Noble in residence, but they are not going to be reflected in the UWP. Miku's impact on the Imperium is likely as a smallish specialty shipyard and exporter of exotic chemicals. With that TL it might well be a regional source for specialized chemically resistant goods such as protective clothing, shelters, and shipping containers. The need for a Ceremonial/Rank Noble in such a place is dubious, but hardly out of the question for a Referee to justify.
With a population of 100,000, the potential for one or more families of Honor Nobility also seems like a stretch, but hardly out of the question. The descendants of a Knighted industrial chemist, or some Navy hero who just happened to grow up here. The family might bear a higher Honor title than the world warrants, but if they have any Landed Title above Knight that Title bearer holds it for another world (which makes one wonder why the family stays here...). The Landed Knight in residence here might even be a member of such a family, though in most cases he'll have come by his Knighthood honestly, and the Knights that preceded him and who will follow him in the position may not be relatives.
As for truly "Local" nobility, the world is listed as Balkanized. Multiple monarchies seem unlikely with only 100,000 people total, since the separate nations are going to be Pop 4 at best, and the atmosphere works against the idea of many small settlements that have evolved past what were probably corporate origins, if only because every settlement takes a lot of effort just to not die in an Insidious atmosphere. Potentially quite amusing in that Girl Genius "Kingdoms Under Paris" sort of way, but not terribly likely.
Last edited:
Drakon
SOC-14 1K
True, but how important is that Count or Baron on the world's government and culture? That will vary depending on the population and needs of the GM.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
No argument.
Possibly true. We have to remember that AotI ends centuries before the Golden Age. It's possible, however unlikely, that nobility chose to change the addressing at some point in later 3I history.
How few have been led by one whom calls himself king?
I have no idea how many were on the British isles, and how many called themselves 'King,' throughout its history, but I don't think that stopped them any.
And...
Mookmen!!! Seize her!!
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
I doubt the Imperium is quite as catholic about titles as some think, either. The "Imperial Culture" is a thin skin over ten thousand worlds, quite a few of which have been continuously occupied for thousands of years, and at least a thousand of them in relative cultural and linguistic isolation.
123-1105; Hour 7 in the household of Knight Resident Sir Kadidae of Miku.
"House, what appointments are pending for today?"
*click*"Executive for Life Gingri of Northern Mines is scheduled at 10 to discuss import duties."
*click*"Boss-King Corleon of Dawnlake Skimming & Refining is scheduled at 13 for vague threats and cajoling."
*click*"Dame Isilaa (OEG) has requested a meeting at 15 for what she described as 'family matters'."
*click*"End of Appointments for Today."
"Great. Money, politics, and a marriage proposal all in one day. Confirm all appointments and set out the receiving formals. Warm up the East Viewing Room for the 10, and add a scents of Terran Pine and mustelid to the room for the 13. Warm up the Dining Room for the 15."
