Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Containerization would be two basic types:
1. External environmental exposure
2. Hulled hold held
1. External environmental exposure
2. Hulled hold held
Orbital facilities and small starships
- Thread starter yallambie
- Start date
Yes and no. It's not supposed to be "Starships and Spreadsheets" -- the player-facing trade mechanics need only be plausible enough to enable suspension of disbelief. On the other hand, little details like this can accumulate over the course of a campaign into awkward questions...But again, Traveller is meant to played as a game for the purposes of entertainment ... not as a life (let alone economic) simulator.
Happens in every game system, pretty much. (Players -- and like-minded NPC parties -- continuousy looting dragon hoards should cause massive inflation due to excess gold supplies... And yes, this actually happened when Spain brought gold from the Americas back to Europe.)
In the RL case of the US which does import from China more than export to, the container people find bulk items like animal feed, plastic pellets or lumber to ship back. Even if at a loss, cheaper in time to get it back than lose business waiting on new containers.
I see things like that as both demonstrating player agency, creating a living world, and generating new opportunities and story lines.
That is what I was alluding to ... but what about a scenario in which China is shipping containers of TECHNOLOGY to THIRD WORLD Countries via AIR FREIGHT. Are you going to AIR FREIGHT Lumber back to China, or build cheaper one-way containers? We are talking about STARSIPS at Cr 1000/dTon per jump ($20,000 per 4 dT container per jump transportation cost) - that is closer to AIR FREIGHT pricing than CONTAINER SHIP pricing.
Or the containers are rented from the shipping company. I don't know about you, but I don't see many GE, Kellogs, or Lands End containers. I do see a lot with J B Hunt, and Maersk logos however.
Published, yes.
.77 exists but there are some corrections that need to made.
If anyone sees a mistake please, please, please, let me know over at the files conversation.
According to "What is Going on With Shipping?" y-tube channel, the port of LA ships about 50% empties back to China.
This suggests that in Traveller (without presenting a rules mechanism for it), some cargo shipping may be discounted just to move the containers back to where they're needed.
In that picture what our doughty ACS merchant heroes are doing is ‘last mile’ deliveries of the big lines, the scraps and leavings filtering down to their final destination.
There is a RL class of container ship that takes relatively small numbers of containers to and from smaller ports, breaking up the super shipments. I would expect those are the ones dropping off the main routes for ACS delivery to the backwaters.
Feeder ship - Wikipedia
As to container retrieval, consider the concept of the per Diem car- the container rental continues as long as the container is not back at container company base.
How did the per diem system work. - Trains Magazine - Trains News Wire, Railroad News, Railroad Industry News, Web Cams, and Forms
Trains magazine offers railroad news, railroad industry insight, commentary on today's freight railroads, passenger service (Amtrak), locomotive technology, railroad preservation and history, railfan opportunities (tourist railroads, fan trips), and great railroad photography.
cs.trains.com
That begs the question, aren’t shippers paying double for both an external mounted container that has to be fully hull rated and the actual jump hauling fee?
Suggests to me that container use is mandated else the pricing should make internal break bulk cargo holds cheaper. Unless the shipper has to eat port stevedore fees by speccing planet fall and in atmo transport rather then dispersal from high port.
Course that script can be flipped, maybe break bulk streamlined ACS traders are desirable precisely to sidestep the big line/container costs.
Or a lot of those cargo lots from small pop worlds to large ones are empties. That would actually already be modeled!
How about if the containers can be broken down? After being broken down, four containers take the space of one. I know this wont work with all containers, but should work with enough of them to make shipping them back to where they can be used again cost effective in most places?
(This idea comes from one of the Traveller rule sets)
(This idea comes from one of the Traveller rule sets)
But, see, in that case, arguably, those containers are "free".
The ship is going back to China no matter what. The costs are fuel (to haul the weight of the empty containers) and the time to load/off load.
But the big ticket item, the ship, it's going back to China.
This is a different problem than, perhaps, the typical tramp freighter in Traveller that may be hopping from port to port. These ships are on dedicated routes.
Ostensibly,Traveller freight is shipped by volume, and billed by the dTon. That means that shipping containers, full or empty, cost the same. The freight Captain has the same costs regardless of what's in the box, and will want to be paid and making the same margin.
Some could offer "20% discount" to haul back containers on a "space available" basis. That could work. Better 80% then 0% for an empty dTon going, well, anywhere.
You could probably pack them 5:1 like that. Maybe 10:1. The problem though, is that when broken down they...don't fit in a container! >.<
We can think about modern freight, that has every motive to be as efficient as possible, and I don't think they do this. Perhaps the ancillary costs of handling ill shaped freight is not worth the benefits.
You have to think of modern container ships like Traveller jump ships. They're, effectively, limited by volume. Obviously there's a true weight limit. Shipping containers of lead aren't going to work. But like most freight, it's volume that is the key limitation.
That said, better to ship back capacity in empty containers than 150% in broken down containers, and that 50% boost in density is enough to make it not work.
They're broken down containers, they don't need to be in another container, just tied down so they don't shift around during travel. What's one more hand wavium in a Traveller universe that's full of hand waviums?
In a place like the Imperium, with something like shipping the containers back in a 4:1 ratio (or more if desired) would be feasible and keep the trade moving while keeping the containers from piling up in a dead end star port. Might explain, in a hand wavium sort of way, why it only pays Cr1000 to move a dton of bulk cargo, since the containers are being shipped to where they can be used again.
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 5K
This is where ticket arbitrage comes in, via third parties. I've explained this concept elsewhere in other threads, but simply for the sake of simplicity, I'll repeat it here.
Let's say we've got a third party company that has invested in a lot of Cargo Boxes, but which owns no starships to transport them with. Instead, the third party company bids for transport capacity on the spot market when starships in port declare their next destination(s), so as to be able to place THEIR Cargo Boxes on those outbound starships (catch as catch can).
If starship operators are agreeable, the third party can charter interstellar transport capacity @ Cr900 per ton (interplanetary charters are priced differently, so let's stick to interstellar for right now). That transport capacity can be either internal (typical with most starships) or external (if the starship can dock with and tow Cargo Boxes externally). Needless to say, it's this latter possibility that I'm exploring in my Pondering Starship Evolution thread (what would it look like, how would it work, etc.).
The third party company would be able to sell tickets to load up their Cargo Boxes @ Cr1000 per ton to THEIR clientele.
So basically, if the third party isn't shipping stuff they own, they can net Cr100 per ton in profit by acting as middlemen for merchant starships capable of moving the Cargo Boxes.
Alternatively, the third party could charter interstellar transport capacity @ Cr900 per ton in order to transport speculative goods that the third party acquires and sells through local branch offices on different worlds. When you can earn MCr1+ in profits on speculative goods arbitrage, even shipping empty Cargo Boxes @ Cr900 per ton under charter is barely going to put a dent into the speculative goods arbitrage profit opportunities.
Beyond a certain tipping point, making a profit on the ticket revenues becomes "less important" than making a profit on the speculative goods opportunities. When you're making "enough profit" (reliably) on speculative goods, you can (as a business) "take the hit" of returning Cargo Boxes with nothing in them. You make a loss on the return journey, but still come out ahead (profit margin wise) on the entirety of the round trip voyage.
By definition, tramp freighters DO NOT have pre-determined dedicated routes that are plotted and planned in advance.
They may have a collection of star systems that they frequent routinely (so as to stay within a local grouping of star systems), but the question of "where to next?" will typically be determined by:
- Speculative Goods Arbitrage Opportunities
- Closest to 100% full shipping manifest opportunity
True.
Full containers contribute more to the bottom line (and net positive revenues) than empty ones do. However, if the Boxes cannot be filled, but they need to "return to base" they can always be transported empty. The ticket prices for transport capacity are the same, whether a Box is empty or full ... it's just that a Box that is loaded up to full has more opportunities to reach net positive revenue flow.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
In theory, if payment is made in advance, the shipper can invest the money, either at five percent return, or final demand bills.
Discounts on resales depend on current demand.
Discounts on resales depend on current demand.
and there is always the shipping container housing option. Though cutting windows in the hull-metal variety may prove challenging.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
I thought so too.
But apparently, some extensive refurbishing is required.
But apparently, some extensive refurbishing is required.
I would expect a lot of less stylish home containers would congregate around Starport D and E, and most spaceports.
