Overtonnage

[mike wightman]

Just when you thought sentient chips used as transponders is tantamount to slavery, now the rules allow you to put organic brains in there too

 

[kilemall]

Insofar as including brains in consoles... I've been fiddling with this path:
A console and a Mod/0 computer are pretty much the same thing per the rules
Consoles need deck space so a user can use them, and if they're all packed together it stresses people
So... looking at like 2 tons a piece.

Mod/0 computers do not need deck space. There's no controls.
So....
Install a console called "engineering" that controls:
4 Computer/0m+brain machines , with brain skills in Engineering/Power, Life, Manuver, Jump ...

Now your Engineer can log into the console, check with the AI's doing the work, and if something is getting freaky they can directly control things.

And a total of 2 tons for the console, and 1 ton of computers.

Whew, that’s kinda crazy space for an interface to engineering controls. The kind of space I would expect for maybe an analog control in TL6.

 

[Baroun Tardis]

Whew, that’s kinda crazy space for an interface to engineering controls. The kind of space I would expect for maybe an analog control in TL6.

Minimum is like 0.5 dtons per console, but then there's ergonomics issues. If you want optimum crew sanity, you give them more room....
You can have a console support more than one system, but then it's multi-tasking, and splits it's C+S over the number of tasks. So if you have a TL12 ship, and one console running Jump, Manuver, Power and Life, 4 tasks, then it's got C+S of 3 each... and only a 50/50 chance of doing even routine tasks when on its own. Not good for when the crew wants to take a nap.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Insofar as including brains in consoles... I've been fiddling with this path:
A console and a Mod/0 computer are pretty much the same thing per the rules
Consoles need deck space so a user can use them, and if they're all packed together it stresses people
So... looking at like 2 tons a piece.

A console is a (computer assisted) workstation for a sophont. A task enabler. It controls machinery through control panels.

A computer is a main-frame. A task resolver. It controls consoles, and can resolve task a task enabled by a console. It can resolve as many simultaneous tasks as the model number, so a m/0 can't resolve any tasks (B2 p250).


A console with an in-built brain becomes an independent task resolver, i.e. it can do stuff. Stupid brains are cheap enough to include by default.


At least as far as I understand...

 

[kilemall]

Minimum is like 0.5 dtons per console, but then there's ergonomics issues. If you want optimum crew sanity, you give them more room....
You can have a console support more than one system, but then it's multi-tasking, and splits it's C+S over the number of tasks. So if you have a TL12 ship, and one console running Jump, Manuver, Power and Life, 4 tasks, then it's got C+S of 3 each... and only a 50/50 chance of doing even routine tasks when on its own. Not good for when the crew wants to take a nap.

I could get one console that is 1dton max, and having a mix of .5 to 1 dton ones around, but a single 2dton stretches credibility to me.

I’m coming at this from having helped design computer room console areas and doing 12 hour shifts in them.

1 dton would provide an average of 6 screens stacked with plenty of room for backplane electronics for dedicated system support. Or some combination of hardware buttons/switches/dials/readouts replacing one or more screens. Potentially enough room for two people to work given a 3 meter front.

A typical manned warship console would be .5 dton with 3 screens/controls stacked, strictly one person, but still comfortable compared to many such consoles in use in RL.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

You can have a console support more than one system, but then it's multi-tasking, and splits it's C+S over the number of tasks. So if you have a TL12 ship, and one console running Jump, Manuver, Power and Life, 4 tasks, then it's got C+S of 3 each... and only a 50/50 chance of doing even routine tasks when on its own. Not good for when the crew wants to take a nap.

I assume that only one C+S+K is used, either the workstation's or the user's, whether the user is a sophont, a brain, or a computer.

I believe a m/4 computer can resolve four simultaneous tasks, using four consoles and the consoles' C+S+K, just like four sophonts or four brains could.

 

[Baroun Tardis]

I could get one console that is 1dton max, and having a mix of .5 to 1 dton ones around, but a single 2dton stretches credibility to me.

I’m coming at this from having helped design computer room console areas and doing 12 hour shifts in them.

1 dton would provide an average of 6 screens stacked with plenty of room for backplane electronics for dedicated system support. Or some combination of hardware buttons/switches/dials/readouts replacing one or more screens. Potentially enough room for two people to work given a 3 meter front.

A typical manned warship console would be .5 dton with 3 screens/controls stacked, strictly one person, but still comfortable compared to many such consoles in use in RL.

Yeah, I agree and can dig it.
I've rationalized that it's also the control runs and secondary equipment behind the scenes, but... hey, it's the way the rules are written. (shrug)

 

[Baroun Tardis]

I assume that only one C+S+K is used, either the workstation's or the user's, whether the user is a sophont, a brain, or a computer.

I believe a m/4 computer can resolve four simultaneous tasks, using four consoles and the consoles' C+S+K, just like four sophonts or four brains could.

BBB2 p88 - Multi-Tasking. Any number of Control Panels, Mechanisms, or Functions can be assigned to one Console; a Console Multi-Tasks by dividing its available C+S.
And, yeah, if the User's C+S is more than the consoles tech level then the User's is used.
There's something in there that the "Ease of Use" on the QREBS for the console is a bonus on the user's C+S too.


Computers, yeah, they get their model number of full C+S tasks. Consoles, not so much

 

[RogerD]

Thanks for all the great info. Time to rethink my console setup (which was sketchy at best anyway). I'm leaning towards dropping many of the surface mount sensors in favor of having sensor missiles, and I'm thinking about replacing the hybrid turret with a straight up missile turret - there is no planned mission for the sandcaster and the only mission for the laser is possibly some asteroid mining.

I'm not sure I like the brain for every console idea for a number of reasons, but it is clear to me now that the most consoles you need is the number of crew members + the number of computer cells you have installed. For a minimally staffed ship, there should be 1 crew per three consoles. I think I like the 1 shift concept a bit better. The note about multi-tasking splitting the C+S is a great reminder and I'll think about different phases of the assigned mission to see how many crew are really needed.

Crew themselves don't need to take up all that much space these days, and I'll take a hard look at that too. Essentially it seems you can pick the crew you want and then pick the comfort level you want and just buy the fittings as you see fit (essentially for role-playing reasons)

 

[Ulsyus]

Thanks for all the great info. Time to rethink my console setup (which was sketchy at best anyway). I'm leaning towards dropping many of the surface mount sensors in favor of having sensor missiles, and I'm thinking about replacing the hybrid turret with a straight up missile turret - there is no planned mission for the sandcaster and the only mission for the laser is possibly some asteroid mining.

I'm not sure I like the brain for every console idea for a number of reasons, but it is clear to me now that the most consoles you need is the number of crew members + the number of computer cells you have installed. For a minimally staffed ship, there should be 1 crew per three consoles. I think I like the 1 shift concept a bit better. The note about multi-tasking splitting the C+S is a great reminder and I'll think about different phases of the assigned mission to see how many crew are really needed.

Crew themselves don't need to take up all that much space these days, and I'll take a hard look at that too. Essentially it seems you can pick the crew you want and then pick the comfort level you want and just buy the fittings as you see fit (essentially for role-playing reasons)

Don't forget that you've still go the BBB2 p222-6 Tech Stage tables that could give you some changes to how the items fit into your designs.