General Percept Scale
- Thread starter bjjones37
- Start date
Okay, nice start.
So with a break point on 2D6 of 7 or greater ~42% of people will either be autistic (6), retarded (5), or crippled (2-4) in some manner?
No thanks.
That boat sailed a long time ago.
For heaven's sake, why?
ShawnDriscoll
SOC-14 1K
Kind of reminds me of the psychic twins studies done in 1987-1989 by the CIA.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Welcome aboard 
A lot of thought has gone into this, do you use it often in your games?
A lot of thought has gone into this, do you use it often in your games?
Welcome aboard
A lot of thought has gone into this, do you use it often in your games?
I wish, need some one to play with to do that. I'm sure it still need development. Right now I am trying to write the mongoose stuff into algorithms. I will probably start out coding it in quickbasic for testing, years long project before I actually get to play. But I am getting to test the chargen module pen n paper with my wife occasionally.
It was watching Auggie on Covert Affairs that made me think it might be interesting to have a character with a disability in an RPG.
And thanks, glad to be here.
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If you can't properly process sensory data, your intelligence and education are effected.
While I'll need cites for those numbers, your own rules don't model your own numbers at all. Assuming you're using 1D12 because your list runs from 1 to 12, you have 16.67% of the population lacking one or two primary senses - sight, hearing, smell, taste, and touch - with another 16.67% experiencing deficits with one or more of those senses.
That's a wee bit more severe than 1 in 3 adults experiencing tinnitus due to headphone use.
You then have 8.33% "not fully aware of surroundings" - retarded in some fashion - and another 8.33% "insensitive to others" - autistic. Again, both of those percentages are far higher than those in reality.
Adding it all together, your "perception" scale has half the population operating under some sensory or psychological deficit of some sort with nearly 17% lacking one or more senses. That perception of the population is faulty.
That explains quite a bit.
No. ADHD is wildly over diagnosed and Ritalin is passed out like Pez.
They are issues of intellect if you can't properly perceive or process data from your surroundings. It's simply a matter of "Garbage In, Garbage Out". The alleged condition of the machinery in between the faulty input and faulty output doesn't matter.
Yet you provided no rules for doing so. You go to the effort to list things like blindness, deafness, anosmia, ageusia, hypoesthesia, and a lack of empathy but fail to provide any rules for players wanting to model those deficits.
You may have thought you were rolepaying a human but, like those people thinking they're playing an alien, you were only playing yourself. That means all your characters have been autistic.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
So an extra stat on the character sheet. Have you seen T5 and how it allows you play around with the core characteristics that make up the UPP?
In the far future would some of these differences have been identified at the genetic or neurological level and 'treatment' made possible for ADHD rather than just pumping full of drugs?
Hearing and sight impairment are pretty common, we wear glasses, contacts and have eye surgery to correct vision, but correcting faulty hearing is often much more difficult - audio implants are not uncommon these days, I have two friends fitted with them.
I agree, I have taught many students on the spectrum and with ADHD.
I have looked through T5 somewhat, but it is going to requires lots and lots of looking before I can do anything with it. Mostly I am working with Mongoose.
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Not sure what the point of this.
Just saying as one of the broken humans first not sure why I would want to play someone who is also broken. I play games to be something better and more powerful and with agency in their world, saddling my character with a disability seems like a step back in my power fantasies not forward.
Second, I disagree that perception or its lack affects intelligence. It may affect decisions made with faulty sensory data but intelligence is its own thing. It doesn't depend on sensory data to function.
Last, isn't this covered already in Awareness? Seems like duplicate effort for less pay off. What's the advantage for me? What does it grant that aids me? Honestly, it looks like a way to saddle characters with more problems than benefits. I mean, there is already disability chances with Survival and Aging rolls taking their hits on the character, this seems to add very little benefit for the potential costs.
On the other hand, it sure will keep the Timmii patrol off it. So, kudos on that.
Oh, one last thing, who uses a "spiritual" basis for psionics? First I've heard of such a thing. Not saying some folks don't just I've never come across it, not in Traveller anyway.
Just saying as one of the broken humans first not sure why I would want to play someone who is also broken. I play games to be something better and more powerful and with agency in their world, saddling my character with a disability seems like a step back in my power fantasies not forward.
Second, I disagree that perception or its lack affects intelligence. It may affect decisions made with faulty sensory data but intelligence is its own thing. It doesn't depend on sensory data to function.
Last, isn't this covered already in Awareness? Seems like duplicate effort for less pay off. What's the advantage for me? What does it grant that aids me? Honestly, it looks like a way to saddle characters with more problems than benefits. I mean, there is already disability chances with Survival and Aging rolls taking their hits on the character, this seems to add very little benefit for the potential costs.
On the other hand, it sure will keep the Timmii patrol off it. So, kudos on that.
Oh, one last thing, who uses a "spiritual" basis for psionics? First I've heard of such a thing. Not saying some folks don't just I've never come across it, not in Traveller anyway.
A simple way to reduce those percentages to a more likely ones would be to make a roll initially to see if your character is affected (e.g., for MgT as bbjones seems to play, 4- to be affected, with DMs for TL as if it was a stat).
I give DMs for TL because I believe (hope?) those imparements will diminish to near none s the TL advances and they may be treated somewhat, be it with regeneration, implants, psicological advances, or whatever it may be.
OTOH, this (mostly sensitive impairments, but maybe also psycological effects) may result from damages, so, while (hopefuly) healable, it would take time and money to heal them (one way I've used to avoid players to be too prone to violence, as to be killed just means to spend a time rolling a new character, is to either apply them some permanent damage or to keep them out of play, healing, for a while. most players would not be too affected to start a new character, but to have to play one who is so impaired, or to be out of play for a while, is enterily another matter)
Well, some people might find it challenging, or even fun...
Just two points here:
I give DMs for TL because I believe (hope?) those imparements will diminish to near none s the TL advances and they may be treated somewhat, be it with regeneration, implants, psicological advances, or whatever it may be.
OTOH, this (mostly sensitive impairments, but maybe also psycological effects) may result from damages, so, while (hopefuly) healable, it would take time and money to heal them (one way I've used to avoid players to be too prone to violence, as to be killed just means to spend a time rolling a new character, is to either apply them some permanent damage or to keep them out of play, healing, for a while. most players would not be too affected to start a new character, but to have to play one who is so impaired, or to be out of play for a while, is enterily another matter)
Well, some people might find it challenging, or even fun...
Just two points here:
- you don't always play yourself, if you're a good roleplayer. After all the main point to play them (aside of having a good time) is either to find ourselves on situation we would never in real world or to roleplay other people.
- operating within the autism spectrum does not mean to be autistic. Autism spectrum includes other syndromes too
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
If you have the raw percentages then converting to a dice throw is not a problem, just post them and I can do the conversion.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
For the purposes of nervous system, I always use DEX.
DEX 2 would be a semi-functional toddler, and an adult would be very challenged to do most anything- below that with permanent damage or aging rolls, bound to a hoverchair.
You could say that DEX 2 is due to blindness or other sensory issues as per the original post- it's the sort of thing that I would have players choose to play rather then a roll.
So if I were to derive PSI power from stats with the original logic of neurological condition, I wouldn't create a new one, just average DEX and INT. INT would provide the control and sort out physical from psionic ability.
Or maybe DEX and other stats for specific powers/schools.
DEX+ SOC/2 for Telepathy (assuming SOC as social intelligence)
DEX+ END/2 for Awareness
DEX+ EDU/2 for Clairvoyance/Clairaudience
DEX+ INT/2 for Teleportation
DEX+ STR/2 for Telekinesis
DEX 2 would be a semi-functional toddler, and an adult would be very challenged to do most anything- below that with permanent damage or aging rolls, bound to a hoverchair.
You could say that DEX 2 is due to blindness or other sensory issues as per the original post- it's the sort of thing that I would have players choose to play rather then a roll.
So if I were to derive PSI power from stats with the original logic of neurological condition, I wouldn't create a new one, just average DEX and INT. INT would provide the control and sort out physical from psionic ability.
Or maybe DEX and other stats for specific powers/schools.
DEX+ SOC/2 for Telepathy (assuming SOC as social intelligence)
DEX+ END/2 for Awareness
DEX+ EDU/2 for Clairvoyance/Clairaudience
DEX+ INT/2 for Teleportation
DEX+ STR/2 for Telekinesis
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Naw, don't give up just cause you aren't up on game mechanics.
We're here to help that.
Just, expect some hard critiquing and take it as a challenge to improve your system.
Yeah, more things I don't get.
That is why I play in a high tech TU because it can be place where no one has to be born broken. And starships and rayguns.
But then, I am bad. Timmii for life! :devil:
That said, still think it has too many deficits and not enough benefits. And still a bit hazy as to the actual benefit. I mean how does it work, what does it do the Perception? Why should a player take the chance?
I totes go with TL affecting health and aging.
Well, I'm a bad role player then since all my characters are just fantastic versions of me. That is the fantasy to have agency in the world, to have wealth and power. Being less than that well, some people are lucky and don't have traumatic lives but not me. Being awesome and powerful or wealthy or just plain set for life is the fantasy that is the thing I don't have in real life. In real life, like everyone else I am but dust and nothing, in games I can pretend things matter and life has reason. I game to escape the real, not to immerse myself in it further.
That is why I play in a high tech TU because it can be place where no one has to be born broken. And starships and rayguns.
But then, I am bad. Timmii for life! :devil:
That said, still think it has too many deficits and not enough benefits. And still a bit hazy as to the actual benefit. I mean how does it work, what does it do the Perception? Why should a player take the chance?
As I explained, it effects the quality of the "input" and the ability to "output". The abilities of the "machine" in the middle the GIGO equation don't matter one whit if what it receives is "garbled" and/or if it's output is "garbled".
If you have trouble perceiving or understanding the world around you and trouble empathizing or understanding those with whom you need to communicate your intelligence doesn't matter because you cannot apply it.
Of course now someone is going to bring up the late Stephen Hawking as a counter argument. ALS prevented Hawking from speaking. He could still hear, see, smell, etc. He still had empathy, understood emotions, could pick up on nonverbal clues, and so forth. His perceptions weren't damaged, his mental abilities weren't damaged, and he was still able to communicate through a variety of speech-generation devices.
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I appreciate the kind words, but as near as I can tell the primary issue was not with the mechanics, but the concept. Incorrect mechanics can be corrected, but an invalid concept cannot.
"mind reading" is a psychiatric trick used to get someone to reveal what it is that's bothering them by drugging them up, and then interrogating them in a semi-conscious state (effectively a light sleep). The effect is that when the doctor relays to your friends or family to hit on a topic or recite a thought that the person in question had, said person has the perception that "their mind has been read".
In a scifi gaming like vein, the mind generates more EMFs than we understand, and the "mind reader" is able to consciously manipulate those "powers" to tap into the targets wetware and "read his mind".
I think both the Pentagon and Soviets looked into the possibility of using ESP or "psionics" back in the 50s and 60s, but found that it was total garbage, though the example in the first paragraph is still used by doctors to diagnose patients.
In an Asian martial arts' vein there was a perception that "chi" was your energy anchoring you to the Earth, and that this energy could be somehow harnessed, manipulated and thereby projected. This would be a "psionic attack". Though in actuality the Chinese or other martial artists were mistaking center of gravity for an actual physical force.
In a scifi gaming like vein, the mind generates more EMFs than we understand, and the "mind reader" is able to consciously manipulate those "powers" to tap into the targets wetware and "read his mind".
I think both the Pentagon and Soviets looked into the possibility of using ESP or "psionics" back in the 50s and 60s, but found that it was total garbage, though the example in the first paragraph is still used by doctors to diagnose patients.
In an Asian martial arts' vein there was a perception that "chi" was your energy anchoring you to the Earth, and that this energy could be somehow harnessed, manipulated and thereby projected. This would be a "psionic attack". Though in actuality the Chinese or other martial artists were mistaking center of gravity for an actual physical force.
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Shadowrunner
SOC-12
Radiation kills psionics. e.g. watching TV daily, eating meat daily, not practicing, lack of discipline/focus etc.
Not all drugs would kill psionics but some will bring a loss of focus or shift of strength.
Untrained is what it says on the tin, i.e. has not practiced.
Meditation daily +2
Habitual Drug use - roll on side effects tables.
There could be a difference between psionics and channeling. Mediumship and then energy, spirit or entity channeling. Different types of psionics.
The Zhodani skillset is somehow more secretive and sinister, the dark wizards. The Imperium could be equally sinister with their Witchfinder Generals, but I usually play a la Dune/Herbert/Star Wars style, feared but tolerated in parts.
Not all drugs would kill psionics but some will bring a loss of focus or shift of strength.
Untrained is what it says on the tin, i.e. has not practiced.
Meditation daily +2
Habitual Drug use - roll on side effects tables.
There could be a difference between psionics and channeling. Mediumship and then energy, spirit or entity channeling. Different types of psionics.
The Zhodani skillset is somehow more secretive and sinister, the dark wizards. The Imperium could be equally sinister with their Witchfinder Generals, but I usually play a la Dune/Herbert/Star Wars style, feared but tolerated in parts.
