I think in the Third Imperium he would be Auggie the Augmented. Cybernetic eyes are an option in some versions of Traveller.
General Percept Scale
- Thread starter bjjones37
- Start date
I think in the Third Imperium he would be Auggie the Augmented. Cybernetic eyes are an option in some versions of Traveller.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Having experienced several phenomena outside your 'debunking' parameters, I will politely disagree that it is not 'a thing'.
Keklas Rekobah
SOC-14 1K
With all the initial redaction, I’m having trouble following this thread. Is it intended as a group discussion of psionicology, or is it a discussion of simulating disabilities through game mechanics?
Maybe it’s the lack of caffeine in my blood...
Maybe it’s the lack of caffeine in my blood...
ShawnDriscoll
SOC-14 1K
Orr was not having any of it, is all. Hopefully, Bjjones37 will be back with another topic. I thought this one was interesting.
Neither sadly. After posting a Wiki quote about EM fields and proposing that psionics is an ability to manipulate EM fields mentally, Bjjones posted a list of 1D12 results for a new stat he called "Perception". He then tied that stat to both disabilities and psionic ability. The problem was that the 1D12 results produced too many disabilities and too little psionics.
A 1D12 roll of one, for example, meant the character was missing 2 senses; hearing, sight, taste, smell, or touch. A roll of two meant they were "only" missing 1 sense. A roll of three meant they had significant deficits to 2 senses and a roll of four meant "only" 1 sense had deficits.
A roll of five meant the character was ""not fully aware of surroundings", that is retarded in some manner, and a roll of six meant they were "insensitive to others", that is autistic in some manner.
Characters only became normal - not average, mind you, but normal - when a 7 or more was rolled. Above seven, a character became more and more empathetic until at 12 they had psionic potential.
This was on a 1D12, not the 2D6 I had first assumed, so Bjjones' chart had half of a given population crippled, retarded, or autistic in some manner while only ~8% had any psionic potential. Bjjones himself is autistic which may be why he perceives the world that way. When all you know is hammers, everything looks like a nail.
After crippling half the population and tossing out possible deficits like anosmia, ageusia, and hypoesthesia, Bjjones then didn't suggest any play mechanics to model any of the handicaps or deficits he was imposing. You rolled on the table, maybe lost one or two of your senses, maybe received a mental deficiency, and then didn't receive any advice or mechanics on how to play that deaf, dumb, blind, or retarded character.
ShapeShifter
SOC-13
Lots of "null" here.* 
It looks like, yet again, the ghosts of Statler and Waldorf have scared another bright young performer off the stage. Grumpy grognards strike again.
If the OP would like to republish more of his thoughts on Psionics the community would certainly benefit.
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* Maybe Psions get their kewl powahz from Null-Space. :rofl:
It looks like, yet again, the ghosts of Statler and Waldorf have scared another bright young performer off the stage. Grumpy grognards strike again.
If the OP would like to republish more of his thoughts on Psionics the community would certainly benefit.
---------------------
* Maybe Psions get their kewl powahz from Null-Space. :rofl:
It looks like, yet again, the ghosts of Statler and Waldorf have scared another bright young performer off the stage. Grumpy grognards strike again.
Not really. You can read an explanation of Bjjones' post in post #25. Despite the title, his post wasn't about psionics at all.
No the post was not supposed to be about Pisonics, it was supposed to be about the basis for psionics based on graduated analog scale of perception. Psionics is supposed to have it own characteristic for those with the potential, thus my Psionics candidate rating.
I wish I could live in a world where everyone is well adjusted (7) and there is no crime and no civil unrest and now wars and no child abuse. Where there is such well intentioned understanding that no one ever fights or gets divorced and where peace and harmony reigns.
I wish I could live in a world like that, but that has not been my experience. Where I grew up conflict and abuse were common. I choose to see this as being a result of people's lack of empathy, otherwise they would feel the pain they cause others and carefully try to avoid it.
I agree that my mechanics were off, I was trying to follow the 2D6 standard and it flattened a curved scale. But 5 and 6 were not supposed to be defined medical condition, but simply explore how a lack of empathy can cause some of the social distress that many people experience. But as you said, the numbers did not work and I frankly did not wish to try to come up with statistics to match every human condition, I just wanted to model a concept. Well, we do not often get what we want.
Lots of "null" here.*
It looks like, yet again, the ghosts of Statler and Waldorf have scared another bright young performer off the stage. Grumpy grognards strike again.
If the OP would like to republish more of his thoughts on Psionics the community would certainly benefit.
---------------------
* Maybe Psions get their kewl powahz from Null-Space. :rofl:
I think psionics are a kind of cool and interesting scifi vehicle to spark a story or get a story moving forward. Heck, classic Star Trek used them, though somewhat sparingly, but kind of with the understanding that it there was no audience tangible explanation; i.e. Spock's abilities are never explained in terms of his physiology, but you as an audience member figured that there was some biochemical and bioelectric thing going on.
So, why go back and delete stuff? Stuff that's half copied in other messages anyway?
The posts capture your state of development at the time. Maybe you weren't happy with it, but, so what? isn't the whole point of posting to share and get other opinions to spur development and advancement?
You know, as I understand it, scientists and engineers use notebooks that you can't tear pages out of, simply because they can go back and see how their train of thought happened.
I know in college, in Chemistry, we were told not to erase mistakes, but line through them and show the new work. Because perhaps the new work was wrong and the old work correct. But also to see how the result was arrived at, which is important to understand the problem solving involved in case the mistake was a process error, rather than a miscalculation or something else.
I swear, I dunno what it is about THIS forum, but I've never seen folks going back and erasing stuff like they do on this forum. Dunno if it's some cultural thing or what.
The posts capture your state of development at the time. Maybe you weren't happy with it, but, so what? isn't the whole point of posting to share and get other opinions to spur development and advancement?
You know, as I understand it, scientists and engineers use notebooks that you can't tear pages out of, simply because they can go back and see how their train of thought happened.
I know in college, in Chemistry, we were told not to erase mistakes, but line through them and show the new work. Because perhaps the new work was wrong and the old work correct. But also to see how the result was arrived at, which is important to understand the problem solving involved in case the mistake was a process error, rather than a miscalculation or something else.
I swear, I dunno what it is about THIS forum, but I've never seen folks going back and erasing stuff like they do on this forum. Dunno if it's some cultural thing or what.
You might consider reposting some of your original thoughts, and if people turn the flames on you, then smile back with asbestos teeth and say "Well, that's what I like."
I mean, this is afterall fiction. Post something about Killer Klowns from Outer Space. People might poke lots of holes in it, but maybe you got something out of that film that's worth discussing, if for no other reason to entertain everyone.
p.s. KKFOS is one psychotic film.
Keklas Rekobah
SOC-14 1K
I see redaction happen frequently on websites that focus on autism spectrum disorders. That said (and to get back on topic), the “why” of Psionics is what you make of it. ITRW, professional “psychics” hypothesize everything from “everyone creates their own reality” to some unknown quantum principle; when coincidence, actuarial data, cognitive dissonance, and a plethora of personal biases account for the allegedly high rates of success that “psychics” claim.
Personally, for the sake of in-game “reality”, I tell my players that:
1) Despite centuries of research, no one knows how Psionics work.
2) In spite of this mystery, there is no denying that Psionics DO work.
3) Centuries of research HAVE determined that certain forms of electronic noise will inhibit or prohibit certain Psionic abilities (e.g., clairvoyance and telepathy), and ...
4) No one can fully explain this, either.
Then we pick up our dice and start playing.
Personally, for the sake of in-game “reality”, I tell my players that:
1) Despite centuries of research, no one knows how Psionics work.
2) In spite of this mystery, there is no denying that Psionics DO work.
3) Centuries of research HAVE determined that certain forms of electronic noise will inhibit or prohibit certain Psionic abilities (e.g., clairvoyance and telepathy), and ...
4) No one can fully explain this, either.
Then we pick up our dice and start playing.
You chose a poor title then.
Your table ran from one to twelve and not two to twelve. It was 1D12 and not 2D6.
You provided no way for players to explore the results of your table. There were no mechanisms, no disadvantages, no stat adjustments, nothing. Nothing but the vague phrases "not fully aware of surroundings" and "insensitive to others".
Many Call of Cthulhu and similar RPGs model psychiatric problems for obvious reasons. Perhaps looking at their rules could help you develop your rules?
Since I was try to model a scientific progression for the basis of psionics, I did not know what else to call it.
I used 1D12 on the table because in Mongoose Traveller rules certain events during character generation can cause certain characteristics to drop to a 1 and I was trying to allow for that possibility. On the Ranger muster table the benefits go up to a 7 on a 1D6 table because the chargen rules make provision for this.
You are quite right, it was very vague and undeveloped, just an idea I was trying to explore really, so it is a good thing I deleted it. It was my very first post and I learned from the experience. I will try to make sure my ideas are much better developed and polished before I try to present them in the future.
The table mostly dealt with your perception of what a "perception" stat might be, so maybe calling it Perception would have been better?
As for saying it was a basis for psionics, only one result on the table even mentioned psionics. There was nothing about psionic strength variations, for example, despite the fact that you linked "perception" to psionic ability. Shouldn't those with a higher perception rating be stronger psions?
And then claimed later it was a 2D6 table.
But you failed to list which events would cause that drop or show how it would occur.
Exactly. You showed how it would work in your excellent Ranger materials. You didn't show or even explain how it could work with your Perception materials.
No, it was not a good thing. I'll explain below.
What you haven't yet understood is that we can help you develop and polish you materials. Look at all the suggestions being made in your Ranger thread.
You post something, we ask questions, you make explanations, we ask more questions, everyone pitches in with suggestions, and the resulting "give & take" allows you to develop your ideas into something many more people can then use and enjoy.
Your Perception chart only made sense to you so it was of little use to anyone else. By fielding questions, explaining choices, and gathering suggestions, it could have developed into something the rest of us not only understood but also used. Sadly, you instead chose to throw the materials down the "memory hole" and now that can't happen.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Have I got a mechanic for you.
I've proposed using SOC as 'emotional intelligence' or social intelligence rather then social standing.
This measures the character's ability to 'read' people and therefore help perform tasks such as Leader, Carousing, Persuade, Admin, Bribery, Intimidate, etc.
I wouldn't think of it as empathy per se as it could be used brutally and efficiently by sociopaths that are reading and using rather then empathizing.
But would definitely be perception of other people.
Arguably at higher levels of SOC, could be an untrained form of psionics in getting a vibe or low level telepathic information over and above body language, possibly pheromones, definitely a native talent for psychology, etc.
Now then, that doesn't cover all of psionics- reading people would help with telepathy and possibly clairvoyance/clairaudience (sort of being able to sense people and use the remote sensory ability on the right people), awareness would be bodily functions that do not involve other people at all, and teleportation would be more about whatever allows a psion to image the place to go and will themselves there.
So you might use the system I suggested, or roll the psionic strength as per system and tie each ability to one stat-
STR Telekinesis
DEX Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
END Awareness
INT
EDU Teleportation
SOC Telepathy
BTW, as a bonus, from my perspective the psionic ability that is missing is Precognition, which I would tag to INT.
Refereeing Precog would be tough, but I would use it in terms of 'possibilities' and 'always in motion the future is', something that can change possibly due to character action but otherwise WILL happen.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
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Another point for the OP to consider.
I wonk out as much as any gearhead here, and more then some.
But I always check back against gameplay value.
The science 'feel' is important to our settings and stories, but if I had to make a choice between the two, I would choose gameplay.
So whatever you do with psionics, ask what your players want to play in, don't over-complicate it for them even if it gives you a deep sense of place and reality, and be ready to throw out anything that doesn't work towards their entertainment goals.
I'm not saying throw out this direction, I'm saying make sure it serves a play purpose.
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If you're interested in generating flavor text, then I might offer some assistance. I wouldn't worry about someone trying to tear down your concepts, unless it's in the form of a personal attack.
You might scope out one of those fake pseudo science documentaries from the 70s, or that old show with Leonard Nimoy, "In Search Of" to get some inspiration.
I started to use psionics to keep my player group intrigued in the game with we had finished all the classic adventures and double adventures. It was kind of interesting.
