An astrographic "main" is called that because it's transversible by J1. There's no good reason to assume that astrographic mains and trade mains are related.Having trade along the route is the whole point of it being a "main" / trade route.
An astrographic "main" is called that because it's transversible by J1. There's no good reason to assume that astrographic mains and trade mains are related.Having trade along the route is the whole point of it being a "main" / trade route.
An astrographic "main" is called that because it's transversible by J1. There's no good reason to assume that astrographic mains and trade mains are related.
How did a thread on piracy become a thread on the economic feasibility of j1/j2/and j3 traders?
This is what is technically known as a discrepancy. You're quite right when you ask why people would give a damn about mains (once they'd invented jump-2). They wouldn't. Yet canon mentions the importance of mains in several places. So jump-1 must be better than jump-2 for trading along mains. Only, if the ship-building rules even remotely reflect the realities of the Traveller Universe, jump-1 is not, in fact, better than jump-2 and jump-3 for trading along a main.Except that most trade occurs over short distances which is why astrographic mains are important and relate to trade. Otherwise (other than for the study of historic interstellar exploration or low stellar tech level military history) why would anybody give a damn about astrographic mains? They are natural trade routes, easily usable with the minimum of interstellar technology.
How many times do we have to explain to you that although J1 ship are, indeed, cheaper and have more capacity, they are not enough cheaper to make them able to compete against J2 and J3 ships along any route longer than one parsec?You needed help to figure this out! Again the competitive advantage of J2 ships is range, J1 ships is lower costs & capacity.
No one disputes that. What we dispute is the notion that any route longer than one parsec is a suitable J1 route.I'll spell it out. Over a J1 journey, the J1 Trader is cheaper & it carries more.
The fallacy is that you're equating J1 ships with tramp ships. This is not true. Most J1 ships will be regular ships jumping back and forth between worlds one parsec apart. A few will be cheap, obsolete tramp ships. Just as most J2 ships will be regular ships traveling along two parsec routes. And four parsec routes. And eight parsec routes. And ten parsec routes. Etc. etc. A few will be cheap, obsolete tramp ships. And most J3 ships will be regular ships traveling along three parsec routes. And six parsec route. And nine parsec routes. Etc. etc. A few will be cheap, obsolete tramp ships.Then what are you trying to say? The conclusion of my original post was that;
"J1 traders will as a consequence be everywhere, not trying to compete with J2 traders, but picking up the pieces & doing the jobs they don't want.
The thing is, if armed merchant ships are common, you don't even need Q-ships. Unlike the Golden Age of Piracy where a ship with lots of men and cannons was far superior in combat ability to a merchant ship with a small crew and a few canon, the difference in combat ability between a 400 T Traveller merchant and a 400 T Traveller pirate is... that both of them have four turrets.The way to stop piracy is strategically - to build Q-ships. A Q-ship might be a 200 ton SDB built as a special hull, to look externally EXACTLY like a Free Trader (of whatever stripe) - the purpose of this vessel is simply to put a few pips of damage on the Pirate 's drives, and then hunker down until the relieving fighters show, and run the wounded pirate away. It (the SDB) gets slagged, but it does not matter, not a bit. The pirate has lost. The 'good guys' Win by Attrition.
Any thoughts for or against this Cyclical Theory of OTU Piracy?
I like the Golden Age of Sail version of Piracy because it is more easily Hollywood-ized for use in a game. Future Piracy could also be cut from a far darker cloth:Then we really could apply our "Golden Age of Sail" analogy more correctly.
How many times do we have to explain to you that although J1 ship are, indeed, cheaper and have more capacity, they are not enough cheaper to make them able to compete against J2 and J3 ships along any route longer than one parsec?
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Hans
Corruption, bribes and smuggling are where the money is at. Outright piracy is a direct threat to the 3I "rule of the spacelanes" and would have to be countered even if the IN have crush a few world governments to do it. Local rule is a big thing in the 3I ... as long as you don't mess to much with the MegaCorps profits or get in the way of sector wide power games. Piracy will get you hunted down. Remember prize money makes hunting down pirates worth the time and money and shows the power of the 3I.
What part of "it is cheaper to move goods two parsecs by jump-2 ship than by jump-1 ship" don't you get? Don't you believe that it is true, or don't you understand the economic advantage of being cheaper than the competition?If there is a string of J1 worlds (aka a main) with only an occasional "empty system" (NOT empty hex) I still can't see the benefit of a J2 ship.
How do you figure that jump-2 ships will be doing one-parsec jumps except on rare occasions?Most of the time both will be using J1 so there is no benefit for having bigger drives.
Please elucidate. What does the rules system have to do with it?And depending on the rules system this might not only result in wasted tonnage but also wasted fuel.
Sure, in any region of space that consists of two systems lying one parsec apart and at least three parsecs away from any other systems, jump-1 ships will beat jump-2 ships hands down. Apart from that, no, it does not depend on the exact region of space. Please show me any route in Charted Space more than one parsec long where jump-1 ships are cheaper than jump-2 ships of the same age and financing.So whether or not a J2 ship IS more economically depends on the exact region of space.
What part of "it is cheaper to move goods two parsecs by jump-2 ship than by jump-1 ship" don't you get? Don't you believe that it is true, or don't you understand the economic advantage of being cheaper than the competition?
How do you figure that jump-2 ships will be doing one-parsec jumps except on rare occasions?
Please elucidate. What does the rules system have to do with it?
Sure, in any region of space that consists of two systems lying one parsec apart and at least three parsecs away from any other systems, jump-1 ships will beat jump-2 ships hands down. Apart from that, no, it does not depend on the exact region of space. Please show me any route in Charted Space more than one parsec long where jump-1 ships are cheaper than jump-2 ships of the same age and financing.
Hans
If you have a group of worlds with decent populations on every one of them, a jump-1 tramp can, indeed, wander down that main. But that's because (we assume that) he can get a cargo for the next world one parsec away every time, not because he can get a cargo for the world two parsecs away every other time. The jump-2 tramp is still more economical than the jump-1 tramp for trade between any two worlds on that main that is more than one parsec away (well, not the ones that are three parsecs apart, but jump-3 tramps will pick up that trade).If I have a group of interesting systems one jump apart (the main) and a J1 ship goes down that Main trading at each spot WHERE is the J2 craft more economical?
I'll have a look at them when I get home.Examples are the Mains in Pashadaru/Khavlev Sektor as Detailed in Hard Times (and existing before that) with a useful port in almost EVERY System
The only region I know of like that would be the Sword Worlds. In any case, what you're describing is multiple one-parsec routes, not a multi-parsec route. Even on a main like that, if you want to take cargo from world 1 to world 3, you're better off with a J2 ship.If I have a group of interesting systems one jump apart (the main) and a J1 ship goes down that Main trading at each spot WHERE is the J2 craft more economical?
The only region I know of like that would be the Sword Worlds. In any case, what you're describing is multiple one-parsec routes, not a multi-parsec route. Even on a main like that, if you want to take cargo from world 1 to world 3, you're better off with a J2 ship.