• Welcome to the new COTI server. We've moved the Citizens to a new server. Please let us know in the COTI Website issue forum if you find any problems.
  • We, the systems administration staff, apologize for this unexpected outage of the boards. We have resolved the root cause of the problem and there should be no further disruptions.

Piracy Redux

Turn 6: The Pirate has 16 minutes to loot the merchant. The fighters accelerate to 120,000 km per turn and are 180,000 km from the planet and 1,060,000 km from the Pirate – beyond the tracking range.

Turn 7: The Pirate has 32 minutes to loot the merchant. The fighters accelerate to 180,000 km per turn and are 360,000 km from the planet and 880,000 km from the Pirate – within tracking range. The pirate navigator reports that the fighters have entered weapon range (at –5 to hit) and the pirate captain decides to leave now rather than risk possible beam weapon attack.

Greetings ATPollard, just thinking on this scenario a little more.

If the Pirate sticks with the Merchant, the equations change. The fighters have to start to decelerate or run the risk of overshooting the Merchant/Pirate where the Pirate can lower the risk of being shot at, by sheltering with the merchant. The Fighters will be in & out of range in ?? turns & will then take ?? turns to decelerate & turn around, while the Pirate meanders to the 100D limit & skeddadles (to use a technical phrase).

Given this scenario & assuming Merchants would take exception to surviving the Pirates & getting killed by stray shots from the local security forces, what is the Fighters optimal solution? Does that give the Pirates any extra time to pillage?

Cheers!
Matt
 
Your being a little harsh on J1 tramp traders. They won't compete with multi jump capable ships, but they were never intended to. J1 ships are cheaper dton for dton, running costs are less & carry capacity is much higher giving the merchant captain more trade flexibility.
Yes, J1 ships are cheaper than J2 ships and they have bigger carrying capacity. On any route between two worlds one parsec apart, J1 ships will out-perform higher-jump ships. That's trivial to demonstrate. However, J1 ships are not enough cheaper and does not have enough more cargo capacity to out-perform a J2 ship on a two-parsec route or a J3 ship on a three-parsec route. Two jumps-1 costs more per dT carried than one jump-2 per dT carried.

Multi jump ships in comparison are often purchased to service a specific route and are optimized for such.
That they are. But so would a J1 ship be. J1 ships may be cheaper than higher-jump ships, but they still costs multiple megacredits. I don't really see many banks approving unsecured loans base on the business plan "I'll jump around and pick up stuff the regular companies missed". J1 ships are optimized for one-parsec routes and that's where you'll find them.

Note that I'm talking about regular ships. I think free traders are a very small niche of the trade. I think a NEW free trader with a bank loan is pretty much a contradiction in terms. An old one, worth maybe 25% of the new cost and thus much cheaper to run but instead in constant danger of a major breakdown, scrounging around for the crumbs the established companies missed betting that he can make enough money to cover the repairs and loss of revenue when the inevitable breakdown finally occurs ... that's the sort of free trader I can believe in.

The 200tn J1 trader will; take supplies to outposts of troops & belters, special needs cargo multi-parsecs, subcontract out to low tech worlds to create regular mail runs to far off jump routes, move trade where multi jump ships are at capacity & of course just wander around seeing the galaxy while looking for the next job or lucrative route.
What you're describing is what a free trader will do. But before a freetrader buys that 200 T J1 ship, someone else with a proper business plan and good credit has to buy it from new and use it for four decades. And the place he will run that 200 T trader is between two worlds one parsec apart with enough trade to keep such a ship busy.

Regular J1 routes are ideal but of course all the same issues crop up, your competitor has; newer boat/lower maintenance, cheaper crew, better connections, no mortgage, no partners to share profits, undercutting your prices, slandering your good name, secured berthing rights, paid off the union/mafia/commerce commission/police/customs/brokers/mechanics/etc, etc.
Why does my competitor have all those advantages? What if I'm my competitor and he's me? What are you trying to say here?

J1 traders will as a consequence be everywhere, not trying to compete with J2 traders, but picking up the pieces & doing the jobs they don't want.
This isn't the difference between J1 and higher-jump ships, it's the difference between regular ships and free traders (Note: Not 'Type A' free traders but 'cheap obsolete ships' free traders).

Of course this will mean traveling through lightly defended systems on occasion, refueling at Gas Giants risking pirates & mis-jumps. But if the job covers the mortgage & crews wages, the next system might have that big paying cargo that every now & again puts a grin on your captains face...
Yes, and the kind of 'PC type' ships that do these things will be armed and quite capable of giving a pirate a hard time. The rules clearly expect that if a PC ship isn't armed, the PCs will make it a priority to get themselves some laser guns and missile launchers ASAP. This paradox is also at the very heart of Traveller[*]: That the PCs will be a match for the pirates they encounter. After all, what's the fun of running into a pirate that you can't survive an encounter with?



Hans


[*] Early Traveller, at least; it would be nice if we had gotten a teeny bit more sophisticated after 30 years and half a dozen incarnations.
 
Unless the Beowulf is guaranteed to be at least 3/4 full each jump, and there is no way to guarantee that without exclusive contracts (a role play event beyond the scope of this discussion), the Marava will make more money over the course of a year. Enough to pay the bills? Maybe. But definitely more than the Beowulf.
Far from being beyond the scope of this discussion, the question of exclusive contracts is crucial to it. Who plunks down MCr10 and take out a MCr40 bank loan without being confident that he can fill his cargo hold and his staterooms to a satisfactory degree? And what bank loans out MCr40 without seeing a business plan that makes them believe the loan-taker will be able to service the loan?

OTOH, for a contract operator between two world 1 jump apart with confirmed guaranteed cargos running between the worlds, the Beowulf works great.
Sure, the canonical freight and passenger rates are far too high for jump-1 ships.

Oh, and a regular schedule makes piracy a bit easier. Fractionally easier, but easier.
No, it doesn't, because jump variation means that a pirate can't time his arrival at a jump limit to coincide with the arrival of another ship, not even if it is on a regular scheduled.

The way to really outdo the Marava using just speculation and not contract cargos is to get a big broker on each of several planets on a J-1 main with large warehousing on each planet so that you can always get the cheapest purchase price, and hold it for the best sale price. Thereby maximizing the profits made by that big cargo hold.
Yep, and you can bet the regular companies take full advantage of that notion.


Hans
 
No, it doesn't, because jump variation means that a pirate can't time his arrival at a jump limit to coincide with the arrival of another ship, not even if it is on a regular scheduled.

While they cannot determine the exact time to be loitering, they can certainly figure out the best window to do so. Especially because the total variation of the jump window is a known. Said pirate could just leave the target planet and "mosey" his way to the jump target, reserving any high-g action for when the target does show up.
 
:-) we are crossing strongly into economic debate on a piracy thread...
The piracy thread IS an economic debate. If I didn't believe that pirates had to pay their bills too, I would have no problem believing in them.

Not to sound too pedantic, but that J1 main is the exception J1 ships are intended for. If your using your Beowulf elsewhere...
But for economic purposes a low-population world breaks up a main almost as effectively as an empty hex. If a Beowulf can't make money at every jump, it will lose money. So any jump to a world where the odds of filling its hold and staterooms are low (such as a low-pop world) is a bad bet.

I never assumed just relying on cargo, speculation is one of the strengths of owning your own boat.
Speculation is a wonderful mainstay if you're lucky enough to be guaranteed an investment opportunity once a week, the way the simplified CT trade system guarantees that players will. Which is fine for running a ship crewed by player characters. But it's not so fine for background building, where we really can't assume that every NPC-run ship that arrives at the same world on the same day each gets a separate speculative trade opportunity, then have to wait 7 days to get another, etc.

J1 ships using the exceptional J1 mains, yep... But thats the only point you have endeavored to make above, ignoring of course the attempt to restrict your J1 trader to freight only rather than a combo of freight & spec goods.
It may not be reflected in the CT trade system, but a J1 ship will also be at a disadvantage when competing for speculative trade. If it finds something to buy that will sell well on a world four parsecs away, its J2 competitor can underbid it, because a J2 ship will spend less time and money transporting the goods to the market and achieve a faster turnaround on its money. How often does a J1 ship stumble across a bargain that it can sell on the next world over? The J2 ship has three times as many potential markets within a single jump.

You underestimate the impact of salaries on your bottom line and the extra cost on the mortgage & maintenance to pay for those J2 drives, PP & computer.
No, we don't. I've done the figures. Try it for yourself. Work out the yearly expenses for an X-ton jump-1 ship and an equivalent ship of each higher jump. Figure out how many tons of cargo each ship would deliver in a year and divide the expenses by that number.

The single biggest influence on the expenses is the bank loan and a reasonable return on your original investment. Nothing else comes close.

...how is having more cargo capacity (i.e: more earning capacity), lower mortgage payments, lower maintenance & lower crew salaries (i.e: lower costs) detrimental to giving the captain trading flexibility.
The lack of flexibility comes from the reduced number of worlds within reach. Where a jump-1 ship might have, say, three systems within range, an jump-2 ship will have something like nine and a jump-3 ship 18.

Yes they are limited to J1 mains & maybe jumping across a J2 gap if the captain thinks its worth doing. But surely you have figured, that is what they are designed for.
No, they're designed for crossing a distance of one parsec. Whereas jump-2 ships are designed for crossing distances of two parsecs, etc.


Hans
 
While they cannot determine the exact time to be loitering, they can certainly figure out the best window to do so. Especially because the total variation of the jump window is a known. Said pirate could just leave the target planet and "mosey" his way to the jump target, reserving any high-g action for when the target does show up.
Which is where System Control comes in. Merchant ships don't loiter and they don't mosey. To a merchant, time is money and any genuine merchant will want to get from jump point to starport and back again as fast as possible. Any ship that does loiter is exhibiting suspicious behavior. As for moseying, it seems to me to be a fairly elementary precaution for any system control to direct departing ships to aim for spots along the jump limit away from the band where incoming ships are expected. Simple, easy, and doesn't cost anyone anything. Except the pirates.


Hans
 
I apologize for not being exact enough in my wording. Mosey is relative to the ship's rated g performance. Mosey for a higher g ship could be going 1 g, and that is not going to upset any Systems controllers.

Further, those self same, highly efficient, controllers you speak of would keep an arrivals and departures board up in the port. If the target really is a Beowulf or some such other 1 g tramp freighter, the would be pirate could easily wait out the early part of the jump window in the port, using their higher thrust rating to make up the difference (also not alerting the controllers until the course correction to intercept is made).

do you really not see how having a posted schedule for a trader can assist a pirate?
 
I apologize for not being exact enough in my wording. Mosey is relative to the ship's rated g performance. Mosey for a higher g ship could be going 1 g, and that is not going to upset any Systems controllers.
Agreed. An armed ship ship having a G rating of more than 1 might arouse the suspicions of System Defense, since it would obviously not be an ordinary merchant, but a good story might avert unwanted attention.

Further, those self same, highly efficient, controllers you speak of would keep an arrivals and departures board up in the port. If the target really is a Beowulf or some such other 1 g tramp freighter, the would be pirate could easily wait out the early part of the jump window in the port, using their higher thrust rating to make up the difference (also not alerting the controllers until the course correction to intercept is made).
How long does he wait? If he waits until the target actually arrives to ask for clearance, said target will be deep inside the jump limit before he clears atmosphere. Even if he guesses right, he won't be given a flight plan that will bring him anywhere near incoming traffic. Space is big, you know. Even Near Space.

do you really not see how having a posted schedule for a trader can assist a pirate?
I think jump variation and elementary traffic control will negate any potential advantage.


Hans
 
What you're describing is what a free trader will do.

A welll considered reply.

Of course you are correct with regards the mortgage requirements on a new ship, required BP for the bank, etc. Fortunatly the OTU includes second hand tramp/free traders with lower mortgages & less onerous BP.

You are correct however in that I failed to make a distinction between free traders & new J1 ships. However this addition to the debate increases the volume of Free Traders about, rather than reducing them & confining them to specific routes.

Regards having to turn a profit on 'every' jump, you are confusing Profit with Cashflow. The Freetrader must generate enuff Cashflow to ensure current & future Expences are covered. But generating Cashflow does not mean every venture has to turn a profit, just the majority. Profit is counted at the end of your trading period (usually annual).

How often does a J1 ship stumble across a bargain that it can sell on the next world over? The J2 ship has three times as many potential markets within a single jump.

Spec cargo will generally be bought by the vessel most suited for it. J1 spec cargo to J1 ships, etc. Given the J2 ships greater potential markets, it is unlikely to choose a destination to which it does not have a competitive advantage over the J1 ship. It would be as rare for a J2 ship with lower capacity & higher costs to take on a J1 spec cargo as it would be a J1 ship taking longer time & higher costs taking on J2 cargo. However both can if the captains so desire.

The lack of flexibility comes from the reduced number of worlds within reach. Where a jump-1 ship might have, say, three systems within range, an jump-2 ship will have something like nine and a jump-3 ship 18.

Perhaps its just terminology, you are describing the competitive advantage of J2/3/etc ships over J1 ships. I am describing the competitive advantages of a Tramp Trader (lower costs, higher capacity).

Given the desire there are ways for a Tramp captain to cover a J2 gap. Who knows why a Free Trader would want to, but he can if he desires. Just as he could visit a low pop world if he desires, taking a temporary hit on his cashflow in return for some other percieved or future gain.

Cheers!
Matt
 
We are crossing strongly into economic debate on a piracy thread...


Matt123,

Piracy is all about economics. You yourself have said as much in your own posts when you natter on about people coveting the wealth of others.

A pirate needs to pay his bills, one way or another, as much as a merchantman does.

Not to sound too pedantic, but that J1 main is the exception J1 ships are intended for.

From an economic standpoint, those jump1 mains have "empty" hexes all along them. Trace your finger along a given section and you'll come across a poor, lo-pop world sooner than later. Those worlds won't provide the pax and cargos your free trader requires.

I never assumed just relying on cargo, speculation is one of the strengths of owning your own boat.

Speculation is a role-playing mechanism and not a setting detail mechanism. The spec cargo system in LBB:2 has a built-in advantage towards players, however even it will not provide the number and quality of spec cargos you assume it will.

You underestimate the impact of salaries on your bottom line and the extra cost on the mortgage & maintenance to pay for those J2 drives, PP & computer.

You really don't know what you're talking about, do you? Try running the numbers for a change instead of simply making things up. An engineer earns all of 4,000Cr per month and a pilot only earns 6,000Cr. You can carry one middle passenger for one jump and pay an engineer for two months.

The cost that effects a trader's bottom line above all others is the ship's mortgage. The effects of all the other stuff you're roping in is miniscule.

Quite a broad statement. My assumption is that multi-jump ships will take the multi parsec cargo & not be interested in the short route cargo...

You've assumed wrong again. If the "deal" is good enough - either a hold full of freight or that golden spec cargo your scenarios depend on - why wouldn't a Marava captain accept it? Leaving aside his mortgage, his other costs like fuel, salaries, and the like will be about the same as the Beowulf's captain.

... leaving it for J1 ships.

Try and wrap your head around this. In any given system, a multi-jump ship has more options for destinations than a jump1 vessel. Because it can go more places fast, it can explore more of the passenger lists, freight offerings, and spec cargos that are offered. HOWEVER, if the best offers involve only a jump1 trip, there is nothing that will prevent the multi-jump ship from taking those offers.

Here's an analogy that might finally get the point across to you. I've a female cousin who is 188cm tall. She finds it hard meeting enough tall men to date because short women like to date tall men too. Where as she can't date a fellow shorter than 166cm because it would look ridiculous, short women can date men between 166cm and 188cm without any problem. My cousin is constrained in her dating choices just like your jump1 trader's economic choices are constrained. Making maters worse, her shorter rivals have more dating choices just like a multi-jump trader as more economic choices.

I confess I struggle with your english & your logic.

The English I can understand. (It's English by the way with a capital "E".) I used a less vulgar slang term; "bass-ackwards, instead of the more vulgar version; "ass-backwards", to say your thinking was the opposite of what was true.

As for the "logic", I can't help you there as your posts have exhibited none. Then again, your posts can't be logical when you fail to grasp the mechanics of the situation under discussion. Your confusion over what cost truly effects a trader illustrates that.

For multi jump ships however I was referring to a scheduled run between worlds utilising its jump drives to best advantage. By the way, there is nothing stopping a J1 trader doing that as well.

There's plenty that stops the jump1 trader from making that run. Things like taking longer to cover the route and having to pay more mortgages because you took longer. You know, "inconsequential" things like that. ;)

Yep, except these days I use HG & TCS for light amusement.

No wonder you can't grasp the problems and time associated with inteceptions! You play the only Traveller ship combat system in which ships don't move. Dust off Mayday or LBB:2 and try your hand at a vector-based movement system. Believe me, it will be a real big bite of that Reality Sandwich for you.

My solo Merchant Prince days were fun & last engaged maybe 20 plus years ago. So I shall politely decline.

So, you don't have the stones to back up your arguments? I figured as much. I'm debating in a vacuum here because you're making assertions you can't be bothered to test.

So to summarise.

This should be good.

Your arguement that J1 mains are an 'exception' for J1 ships doesn't make sense.

No, read my post again and pay attention this time. I was referring to that fact that astrographic jump1 mains aren't economic jump1 mains you blithely assume they are.

Your arguement that J1 ships 'do not' give the captain more flexibility (higher earning capability & lower costs) vs J2 ships equally does not make sense.

No. Both Hans and I have addressed this. Multi-jump provides far more economic options. Your mistaken belief arise from the fact that you've never worked out the actual costs involved, as illustrated by your statement that salaries are an important cost when mortgages trump all.

Your arguement that J1 ships are more optimised for scheduled routes than J2 fails on the same basis, because it ignores the pressing issue of higher overheads & the lower capacity of a J2 vessel.

No. The economics support the idea of jump1 vessels only working in regions that can provide them with the pax, freight, and cargo they require and the game itself supports the idea with the canonical jump1 subsidized trader.

Finally, you have presented nothing here to persuade me...

That's because you can't rationally explain a man out of a position he arrived at irrationally. When you begin to look at the situation for what it is and not what you beleive it to be, what's been told to you in this thread will make sense.

[quote... that J1 trading vessels are not present in sufficient numbers to service out of the way places and put themselves at risk, albeit low, of piracy.[/quote]

I never said that.

I look forward to replying to your second post this arvo, which I have to say is more on topic.

I'm not looking forward to your's because it will be full of tedious opinions about how you think the Traveller setting works and not how it actually does. :(


Not having fun,
Bill
 
Last edited:
A pirate needs to pay his bills, one way or another, as much as a merchantman does.
Though under certain conditions a 'pirate' can be subsidized. While it's hard for a pirate to make more money than he costs, it's quite easy for a pirate to cost local business more money than the pirate costs. Now, if such 'pirates' are common in the Imperium, it says something about Imperial culture, but it doesn't say much that isn't also said by trade wars and star mercs.
 
I'm not really convinced that a pirate has to pay his bills "as much as a merchantman does." Or rather, in some cases, he doesn't have to, and in some cases, he can't.

IMTU, anyway, piracy is not as promising an economic endeavor as the straight life: it's the last option of a desperate captain who cannot hope to find a safe port. Desperadoes like this will be looting the ship for supplies, equipment, and repair parts so they don't have to risk the civilized ports that have these things. (The chance of successfully selling a captured ship anywhere near its home port without being caught is vanishingly small, even if it is captured intact. In the unlikely event the captured ship is a better one than the pirate's, they'll use it, but those laser scars are a dead giveaway to potential buyers.) Is someone like this going to care if they also happen to be skipping their payments? No. Pirates don't pay their bills. Who's going to collect, and what are they going to do that's worse than being caught pirating?

Then there's the former navy ship turned pirate, whether it's one crew gone bad (less likely) or a survival of a defeated navy (more likely). Like the above desperadoes, they can't count on a friendly port anywhere. They can't stop moving, or they'll be caught dead. The goal is not getting rich, it's surviving, and if they haven't already escaped the area completely it's because they're keeping the war going on their own. They'll not capture ships: they'll loot them for supplies and parts, then blow 'em up.

Privateers might have payments to make, or they might not. Their business model is somewhat different than that of the merchantman as well - that'll vary, whether they're getting paid for kills as well as captures, whether they have to live off captured supplies and cargo and so on. But this sort of pirate won't only be motivated by profit - there's politics too, and that changes the equation.

In the OTU, I don't see how privateering can work, save beyond the borders of the Imperium. The navy's too powerful and present. IMTU, it can happen all the time: the Festrian empire is tiny, its duchies are eternally at each other's throats, and the neighbors are neither far nor friendly. MTU is small ship and small navy TU, and empires need to always keep a fleet concentrated on protecting homeworld and presenting a reasonable threat to one's enemies. Tonnage can't be frittered away on every little dustball around every little sun. And not every one of those dustballs can protect much more than the immediate space around their mainworld. And some can't even do that.
 
The basic problem with the 'desperate pirate' theory is that a pirate really needs a fence (or else cargoes are useless to him) and generally a shipyard, and if he has access to those things, he doesn't need piracy to raise money -- he can just fence his ship.
 
I always thought that one of the big prizes for a pirate would be small craft or ship's vehicles. Muscle up to a merchantman during a gas giant refuel, run out the guns. Demand that they jettison a small craft or ship's vehicle, in return for not starting a ruinously expensive space battle. The pirate scoops up the launch or pinnace, the merchant makes a claim on his insurance policy, no muss, no fuss.
 
The canon idea (though I'm not sure of the source) of "skips" and "skip-tracers" would seem to suggest it's near impossible to fence a starship and the only option for the owner behind in payments who wants to keep the ship is to run fast and run far. Keep one jump ahead of the xboat alerts to the IN and SPA to detain, and the skip-tracers looking to score the fat recovery fee.
 
The canon idea (though I'm not sure of the source) of "skips" and "skip-tracers" would seem to suggest it's near impossible to fence a starship.
Any technology that would make fencing starships impractical would also make fencing pirated goods impractical, so that's not really an answer. Note that, unless the ship is unsalable or has a value reduced below the current mortgage, you often don't even need a fence -- just go for an above the board sale.
 
As long as there are smugglers, there'll be ships to fence cargo through - but I don't see that brand of pirate fiddling with cargo that much, unless it's very high value and easily shifted. But the ship? Come on, That's just it: you can fence a hot car. You can fence hot cargo. Fine. Where are you going to fence a hot freighter? Once a ship is marked as stolen or gone pirate, I simply can't credit that any port capable of maintaining a starship will a) fail to recognize a ship as hotter than the sun and b) have anyone sucker enough to buy it. I don't know about your TU, but how many ships do you have in an A - port at a given time? Fifty? A hundred? Let's be generous: A thousand ships at a teeming port?

And they can't spot a stolen ship?

Cars can be stolen and fenced because they are as common as dirt. Starships, even puny ones, cost tens of millions. They are not as common as dirt, even in the vastly overpopulated OTU, even given standardization in hull design.

To successfully sell a ship, you'd have to take it far enough from its homeworld that it wouldn't stand a chance of being recognized. Which means you have to get it there - without stopping in local ports.

If a pirate had a safe shipyard to use, he wouldn't be a pirate in the first place because it doesn't pay. There have to be other factors motivating piracy than getting rich quick. Otherwise, a pirate needs a friendly and complicit port, and that spells privateering to me.
 
Where are you going to fence a hot freighter?
If you can get the ship to a port in the first place, so you can sell hot goods, you can sell the ship, because any port that will let a known pirate land (and it takes one witness to turn you into a known pirate) doesn't care about skips. If nothing else, a chop shop can turn it into spare parts and sell the parts.
 
If a pirate had a safe shipyard to use, he wouldn't be a pirate in the first place because it doesn't pay. There have to be other factors motivating piracy than getting rich quick. Otherwise, a pirate needs a friendly and complicit port, and that spells privateering to me.
If a pirate doesn't have a safe shipyard to use, he won't be a pirate, because he can't operate his ship without access to a safe shipyard.
 
I tried to introduce piracy into my setting. It is a frontier region with many
small, almost undefended, independent (= almost no protection from anyone
else) young colonies, and the supply ships for these colonies as well as the
few traders visiting the colonies would be profitable piracy victims.

However, piracy worked only for a very short time. The pirates lacked both
the necessary infrastructure for their starships as well as good opportunities
to sell hot goods. Moreover, the traders organized much faster than the pi-
rates could have expected, and - with subsidies from the colonies - armed
their ships, formed convoys and task forces, and began to hunt down the pi-
rates.

Now the only remaining pirates in the region are either those tolerated (if not
supported) by corrupt local governments, or warships of a certain navy with
a "second job" as part-time pirates (they are the more dangerous ones, with
powerful ships and the rule never to leave any witnesses behind - if their pi-
racy became known, they would be eliminated almost immediately).

My group has played this setting for almost seventy years of game time now,
and we take care that the setting is as realistic as possible (almost "simula-
tionist"). From our experiences I can confirm that piracy is at least extremely
difficult, even under seemingly perfect conditions, and that it is far from pro-
fitable - unless you have a very powerful organization to support the pirates.
 
Back
Top