Piracy Redux

[far-trader]

How about this scenario:

<snippaged>

Is that still piracy?

As good a name as any for it. And quite workable except for a few things...

The initial "hot on the tail" coming out of jump is all but impossible. Canonically at least. Jump is too random to allow anything but "within hours" coming out of jump iirc. And there is no guarantee which ship will be the first to arrive. So your "pirate" arrives first say, and sit's there twiddling their thumbs waiting for the "victim". What do they say to the port while they're doing this? And then when the "victim" shows up? Unlikely the scenario will play out as cleanly as hoped. Same thing the other way around. But it might work.

One system that has only a single SDB for defense, I can buy into that. Ten systems all within a jump one of the other and each with only a single SDB for defense? That breaks all kinds of belief suspension.

And I can't quite believe either that with only a single SDB for space patrol there would be no planetary defenses. Or if there were no planetary defenses then I wouldn't expect much if anything of value on the world. That'd probably be a Class E starport on a low pop low TL world.

I'm guessing the 20 week timetable comes from waiting a week at each port for the next merchant. That's kinda hard to buy into as well. That all these ports are only visited once a week by a single merchant. Never a patrol cruiser, or a mercenary cruiser, or maybe even something bigger?

So, an interesting scenario, maybe even worth taking as the germ for a plan, but not (as presented) plausible.

 

[robject]

One system that has only a single SDB for defense, I can buy into that. Ten systems all within a jump one of the other and each with only a single SDB for defense? That breaks all kinds of belief suspension.

And I can't quite believe either that with only a single SDB for space patrol there would be no planetary defenses. Or if there were no planetary defenses then I wouldn't expect much if anything of value on the world. That'd probably be a Class E starport on a low pop low TL world.

I understand this mindset. Yet when I play Twilight's Peak, I get the impression that the coreward end of the Spinward Main is just a lot of independent worlds with no big desire to do much interstellar anything. It's like you're off the interstate and in the middle of Texas, or Kansas, or Oklahoma. Prairie dotted with little specialized 'nothing' towns.

And, y'know, on most of those worlds, there ain't much of value there. My goodness, if all you can get from an entire world is 50 tons of trade goods, you know there's not much going on.

 

[sablewyvern]

The vast majority of the arguments in this thread seem to be completely ignoring the possibility of significant in-system traffic, which adds a huge potential for piracy.

A quick check of 26 basically by-the-book systems I've generated shows that 12 of them have less than 80% (in many cases, in fact, only a a tiny percentage) of the total system population located at the mainworld and it's starport. That implies a fairly significant volume of in-system traffic, spread over vast regions -- and ample opportunity for piracy, especially if you're jump capable.

 

[atpollard]

The vast majority of the arguments in this thread seem to be completely ignoring the possibility of significant in-system traffic, which adds a huge potential for piracy.

A quick check of 26 basically by-the-book systems I've generated shows that 12 of them have less than 80% (in many cases, in fact, only a a tiny percentage) of the total system population located at the mainworld and it's starport. That implies a fairly significant volume of in-system traffic, spread over vast regions -- and ample opportunity for piracy, especially if you're jump capable.

Just for clarification, "by-the-book" is what book exactly?

 

[atpollard]

As good a name as any for it. And quite workable except for a few things...

snip

So, an interesting scenario, maybe even worth taking as the germ for a plan, but not (as presented) plausible.

Fair enough.

A “Class E starport on a low pop low TL world” with “a single SDB” and “no planetary defenses” might easily have a limited view of the system and be unable to detect any ships beyond the 600,000 to 900,000 km military detection range. The Jump limit on a size 8 world is 1,280,000 km. That’s a lot of room to hide, wait, meet up and then appear at the planetary detection limit in hot pursuit. It still requires a bit of work to select that first system – I admit that.

Twenty weeks is probably too optimistic.

At each stop the fleet adds 1 fully armed merchant ship to the fleet – potentially up-gunned with captured weapons. By world 10, I have a fleet of 11 pirate ships of 200-400 dTons with each ship mounting a possible 2 to 4 triple turrets. That tenth world is looking at a possible 99 lasers/missiles coming at it – the armament of a 3300 dTon LBB2 Warship (a gnat by LBB5 standards, I admit, but formidable in a small ship universe). Think ‘Press Gang’ and ‘Re-education’.

[Who knows, we might recruit all of the frustrated pirates and repo-fleeing merchants from the previous ECONOMICS and PIRATES topics. ]

 

[far-trader]

Fair enough.

A “Class E starport on a low pop low TL world” with “a single SDB” and “no planetary defenses” might easily have a limited view of the system and be unable to detect any ships beyond the 600,000 to 900,000 km military detection range. The Jump limit on a size 8 world is 1,280,000 km. That’s a lot of room to hide, wait, meet up and then appear at the planetary detection limit in hot pursuit. It still requires a bit of work to select that first system – I admit that.

Even better, pick (if you can) a system where the mainworld is deep in the star's jump shadow. Ideally one with a planetoid belt near the star's 100d would provide all the hides you could ask for. It would mean more territory to cover though, but with a bait and switch gambit as outlined that's not an issue for the anglers.

Twenty weeks is probably too optimistic.

At each stop the fleet adds 1 fully armed merchant ship to the fleet – potentially up-gunned with captured weapons. By world 10, I have a fleet of 11 pirate ships of 200-400 dTons with each ship mounting a possible 2 to 4 triple turrets. That tenth world is looking at a possible 99 lasers/missiles coming at it – the armament of a 3300 dTon LBB2 Warship (a gnat by LBB5 standards, I admit, but formidable in a small ship universe). Think ‘Press Gang’ and ‘Re-education’.

The makings of a campaign there A good one I dare say. If we can't find problems with it I'm in

Not every merchant will be armed and not all will be captured intact. The "fleet" probably won't grow as fast or be as formidable as outlined. Still...

[Who knows, we might recruit all of the frustrated pirates and repo-fleeing merchants from the previous ECONOMICS and PIRATES topics. ]

Aye :devil:

 

[pendragonman]

It's like you're off the interstate and in the middle of Texas, or Kansas, or Oklahoma. Prairie dotted with little specialized 'nothing' towns.

We prairie dwellers resemble that remark. Even in Wichita.

 

[far-trader]

Ripped hot off the presses today...

PARIS (FRANCE) - Pirates seized control of a French luxury yacht carrying 30 crew members Friday off the coast of Somalia, the French government and the ship's owner said.

Attackers stormed the 288-foot "Le Ponant" as it returned without passengers from the Seychelles, in the Indian Ocean, toward the Mediterranean Sea, said officials with French maritime transport company CMA-CGM.

The corporate officials said they were in close contact with the French Foreign Ministry, which said in a statement that the boat and its crew had been attacked by pirates.

The ship was in the high seas in the Gulf of Aden, off the coast of Somalia in the Indian Ocean, the ministry said. At least some of the crew members are French, it said.

According to the company's Web site, the three-mast boat features four decks, two restaurants, and indoor and outdoor luxury lounges. It can hold up to 64 passengers.

Pirates seized more than two dozen ships off the Somali coast last year.
The U.S. Navy has led international patrols to try to combat piracy in the region. Last year, the guided missile destroyer USS Porter opened fire to destroy pirate skiffs tied to a Japanese tanker.

Wracked by more than a decade of violence and anarchy, Somalia does not have its own navy, and a transitional government formed in 2004 with U.N. help has struggled to assert control.

The International Maritime Bureau, which tracks piracy, said in its annual report earlier this year that global pirate attacks rose 10 percent in 2007, marking the first increase in three years.

Just, you know, for some real world background.

 

[Plankowner]

A planet orbiting a gas giant will also have a fairly large Jump Shadow. A good source of fuel, and if the Sol System is any indication, even a single GG will have lots of debris floating around to hide in.

Perhaps the "pirate" and "merchant" jump to one of the Trojan points (it should have some debris where they could refuel, maybe even pick up a few miners) and then head toward the mainworld setting up their vectors so that it looks like they were a merchant being chased by a pirate.

HOWEVER, on the down side, I would expect that if a couple of worlds get hit in this manner, then the Imperium will step in and provide support for other target worlds. Might work once or twice, but by the third time, an Imperial Task Force might be waiting in hiding for them...

 

[far-trader]

We now return to the fictional piracy...

Back to atpollard's latest scenario, one thing I meant to ask earlier was how the pirates get started on this grand tour? It still seems to me that the most logical background is one of state sponsored commerce raiding. Perhaps in the form of letters of marque.

Or maybe it could begin with a Mercenary Outfit (and an 800ton Type C Merc Cruiser) with no prospects and a looming financial crisis.

Or maybe a renegade (for whatever reason) Navy ship (like the 400ton Type T Patrol Cruiser) going rogue.

In any case I think it will be an exceptional case. A once in (campaign) lifetime event.

 

[far-trader]

HOWEVER, on the down side, I would expect that if a couple of worlds get hit in this manner, then the Imperium will step in and provide support for other target worlds. Might work once or twice, but by the third time, an Imperial Task Force might be waiting in hiding for them...

That would depend on a lot of ifs.

If the worlds hit are left with any survivors to tell the tale.

If the worlds hit are visited by someone who reports it to the Imperium.

If the Imperium can respond in a timely fashion (remember, 1 week per jump for all info), it'll probably be months before any Imperial forces could be in position. A few weeks at least if lucky. And then figuring out where they will strike next and get there ahead of them. Much more probable I think that they will only be stopped/caught/chased after stumbling into a routine patrol.

 

[dccarles]

100-diameter limit

I've posted something along these lines before...but I think the 100 diameter limit is a serious problem for any would-be raiders. It's just too close to a world surface for a raider to pluck a victim from the defenses.

I reread my copy of The Traveller Book recently, though, and found very little reference to arriving at the 100-diameter limit. (The jump travel diagram just says 'arrive 100 or more diameters out' or something to that effect.) Power Projection explicitly says that ships arrive at the 100-diameter limit, give or take a few thousand kilometers, but CT seems to leave the question open.

So, if you want piracy in your Traveller universe,
1a) Assume that there are choke points (inbound jump points, refuelling sites, etc.), and that a reasonably-funded planetary navy can't defend them all, or
1b) Assume that sensor ranges are just big enough for pirates to find merchant ships, but not so large that the pirates can't hide;
2) Also assume that piracy is not so big a problem that the Imperium doesn't consider it worth it to commit major fleet elements to stamping it out. (Incidentally, the Nelsonian Royal Navy's attitude toward piracy was simple: no quarter.)
3) Assume that space is big enough that a distress signal won't bring down instant retribution on a pirate's head/bridge.

IMTU, I assume that only a very good/lucky navigator will have a ship exit from jumpspace close to its destination; most ships exit 2-3 day's travel (at 1 G) from their destination. (N.B. The highly-Traveller-flavoured computer game Elite had instantaneous jump travel, but ships always left jumpspace in the far outer system.)

--Devin

 

[atpollard]

Back to atpollard's latest scenario, one thing I meant to ask earlier was how the pirates get started on this grand tour?

In any case I think it will be an exceptional case. A once in (campaign) lifetime event.

The loosing side in a local war. Trained navy personnel with no home world to return to and a chip on their shoulders over the various superpowers that chose a 'hands-off' approach to this non-imperial local matter.

Once in a lifetime, unless it worked. Then countless attempts at 'if they can do it then so can we'. Imagine calls for additional imperial patrols that spread at the speed of communication as poor merchants see a chance to become rich pirates. (and mercenaries flock to the killing fields seeking prizes, and the local armament industry booms ...) By this point, who can tell what any heavily armed ship is up to - a merchant trying to survive, mercs looking for pirates, mercs hired for local defense, reinforcements from a remote system, Pirates looking to score.

Arthur

 

[mbrinkhues]

Because any Trader worth their mortgage won't be in an unoccupied system. No profits.


Again the Traders just won't be there. Oh, maybe if they absolutely can't help it. Like after a misjump or running from something. Or very very rarely moving to a new area of operations.

The only Traders you'll see regularly in such systems are Subsidized and contracted to a route that is not profitable except under a subsidy. And if it's dangerous systems they'll be armed and crewed to deal with it or travel in convoy, perhaps even with escorts.

While I basically agree that no trader would jump in an unoccupied system if he can help it, there are some problems:

• Not all travel will be along occupied mains. IIRC the Spinward Marches as well as Gateway and Diaspora have mains with unsettled worlds and/or class X starports. Some ships can skip those worlds using higher rated drives, some (Types A, R, some larger transports) can't. OTOH trading along the main as a whole might be quite profitable even for a J1
• Convoi sounds like a good idea but the jump derivation makes that (sadly) problematic since the ships will be scattered over up to 25 hours (150-175h/Jump according to Book 5) giving a pirat a time window where there might be a lone trader
• What about asteroid belts? Will that change the equation?

That's the MCr question isn't it

I'd say any system with a population of 6+ and a Starport of B+ will have a very good local space navy. A smaller population or poorer Starport just can't do it and will have to rely on Imperial forces. Either through patrols or some minimal attachment to the Starport.

So our our pirat needs a good recon. That in turn means good buy to the "single raider concept" and moves to "pirat band". More difficult to build up and maintain, more chances of internal revolt. OTOH the really succesful pirats of the spanish main did work with fleets (and later became governer). Difficult to build up but

• Gives pirats a reason to capture ships
• Forces pirats to use methods other than direct attacks like hijacking etc
• Makes for a more interesting RPG concept (Black Spots, one legged cooks and half-crazy hermites optional)

TL7 is the minimum imo for a space force. A Class C or D Starport doesn't support the construction of ships (again imo, ignoring, pointedly, TCS or whatever) locally.


Probably not, but they don't have to be. They just have to be good enough on their best day to be an effective deterrent. Especially if there is somewhere else that's worse

Fine until they need servicing :smirk: Then as you note, stuff starts to break down or malfunction, and then they have to hope the bluff is enough and the secret doesn't get out.

That's my take anyway. Good questions.

I agree, a local navy has only to look good unless it is really tested. That in turn means that piracy will likely rise shortly after a larger conflict (Navies HAVE been tested, surplus warships availabel, naval strength low) and fall as soon as a navy rebuilds.

That makes for another piracy concept. What if pirats take over a whole system shortly after a war? Or one of the low tech (TL2-4), low pop worlds with a Class E starport? Running the show should give them some leeway and make for a nice espionage adventure or three

 

[atpollard]

HOWEVER, on the down side, I would expect that if a couple of worlds get hit in this manner, then the Imperium will step in and provide support for other target worlds. Might work once or twice, but by the third time, an Imperial Task Force might be waiting in hiding for them...

I would actually expect to raid back and forth across and along a border. A few hexes inside each of the 'empires'. The frontiers would be more heavily armed, but you cannot be everywhere all of the time. So the Fleet strikes where there is opportunity and flees to where the Navy cannot pursue.

Mexican/Us Border in the 1800's
Vietnam/Cambodia/Laos in the 1970's

It might start a war, but that isn't really our concern. That just keeps the Navy busy and out of the way more often.

 

[mbrinkhues]

We now return to the fictional piracy...

Back to atpollard's latest scenario, one thing I meant to ask earlier was how the pirates get started on this grand tour? It still seems to me that the most logical background is one of state sponsored commerce raiding. Perhaps in the form of letters of marque.

Or maybe it could begin with a Mercenary Outfit (and an 800ton Type C Merc Cruiser) with no prospects and a looming financial crisis.

Or maybe a renegade (for whatever reason) Navy ship (like the 400ton Type T Patrol Cruiser) going rogue.

In any case I think it will be an exceptional case. A once in (campaign) lifetime event.

Meeting a sucessful pirat (one that retires well-off) will indeed be rare, depending a bit on the time and exact OTU configuration. The more powerful the nations are, the rarer the sucessful pirats are. OTOH a lot of "one timers" will also be around, often not surviving their second or third action.

So what does a good pirat need?

• A good fighting ship. Preferably one that is already well-armed by default and can use regular ports despite the arms. Some good ideas are
  • The Lorimar for EA4 with it's ten turrets and J3/M2 drives and build in redundancies. And the 50dton cutter is a useful asset
  • The Quasar from EA5 while only having four turrets has a large daughtercraft (Typ-S) and long legs.
  • The Javelin from EA6 with it's six turrets and high acceleration
  • The Vigilanty conversion from the supplement Assignment:Vigilanty or another Typ-M SubLiner
  • If you can store them maybe a Gig or three (replacing cutters?) acting as a light fighter, troop transport and recon unit
• A clean ship or two for fencing the captured cargo and for spywork
• A captain and XO with a military background
• A Mercenary licence might be helpful

 

[sablewyvern]

Just for clarification, "by-the-book" is what book exactly?

Oops, sorry. New Era, without applying collapse effects.

 

[jawillroy]

Dan, thanks for hipping us to the Yacht capture off Somalia.

Somalia: not exactly a B-port, is it? More like an E or X... but ships come through its waters because it can cheaper than to stay 200 miles from the coast. They do it all the time... in spite of their own lack of armament, in spite of the known risk. All for incremental benefits in cost.

The pirates doing the capturing usually show up in small craft, and are armed with assault rifles and RPGs.

***

So if we have a C-D-E world with minimal patrolling, even if there's nothing to be had there, BUT it happens to be on a route where sometimes ships go - maybe it's a shortcut for J-1 ships? There's reason enough for someone to hit the shipping now and again. The overhead's high - skiffs aren't spaceworthy -
but the payoff is potentially pretty high too.

These guys are able to capture ships in waters patrolled by the US Navy, and get away with it - they ransom the crew and ships, and the companies pay it. But then,

You don't really even need to get into the cargo bay to do well enough. Once you've got the ship to heave to (willingly or by deadlining the engines) and boarded, I can see a pirate's approach this way: "Open the locker now, or we start killing your passengers, and then we start killing your crew." A ship that expects to be trading anywhere but B or A ports is going to have cash on hand: at least that trip's receipts, and possibly the last jump's proceeds as well. That's a few hundred thousand credits, and you don't have to shift a single ton of cargo to get it. If a pirate's pressed for time, that's the way to go.

 

[PFVA63]

The vast majority of the arguments in this thread seem to be completely ignoring the possibility of significant in-system traffic, which adds a huge potential for piracy.

A quick check of 26 basically by-the-book systems I've generated shows that 12 of them have less than 80% (in many cases, in fact, only a a tiny percentage) of the total system population located at the mainworld and it's starport. That implies a fairly significant volume of in-system traffic, spread over vast regions -- and ample opportunity for piracy, especially if you're jump capable.

Hi,

That's a really good point. I would suspect that in situations like that, there could be a lot more opportunity for piracy and the like.

Regards

PF

 

[Whipsnade]

Gents,

It's heartening to see the woefully silly, nearly impossible, loiter-without-being-noticed, catch-and-loot-them-between-port-and-jump, Yo-Ho-Ho/Hollywood idea of full-time pirates finally be ditched in this thread.

In just the last few pages folks have pointed out all the ways pirates could - and most likely do - work in the OTU setting without sticking their ship in the meat grinder of the 100D limit.

One poster pointed that LBB:6 gave us an entire planetary systems full of settlement, activity, and shipping. Another suggested that most piratical acts may be performed by ethically challenged merchants in a fairly normal ship who are prepared to seize the opportunity when the "Golden Moment" arrives. Yet another mused about naval remnants from vanquished governments. I'll add one of my favorites because it hasn't been mentioned as of yet; corporate trade wars.

We should all be able to see that "piracy" in the OTU consists of a wide range of activites performed by an even wider range of groups. Insisting that piracy is only attacks on shipping travelling between jump space and the starport is far too narrow an interpretation. It indicates a sorry lack of imagination coupled with a complete ignorance of the many activites that historical and current day pirates actually perform.

Did you know that Sir Henry Morgan, arguably one of the most successful pirates in history, never captured a single ship on the high seas? Instead he led raids on poorly defended (and not so poorly defended) settlements, looting and pillaging his way to a knighthood and a position as lt.governor of Jamaica. (Along with a commission to hunt pirates!)

So, instead of blindly insisting that, because some protions of Traveller resembles the Age of Sail, each and every aspect of Traveller piracy must resemble Yo-Ho-Ho/Hollywood fantasy pirates, why not remember what piracy actually was and actually is?

There are more ways to go a-pirating than dreamt of in your Attack 'em between the port and jump limit foolishness!


Have fun,
Bill