Planetoid Baronial Estates

[rancke]

I think a throne room could be multi-purpose: both functional and pretentious, as the need requires. Anyway, it's more or less a variant of an audience chamber of some sort. Maybe even the name of the room can change according to purpose.

Herald: "Cringing underling, you are ordered to appear before His Highness in the Throne Room".
Other person: "Oh, crap".

-versus-

Baron: "Let's chat about it in the audience chamber."
Other person: "Hey, don't you mean the throne room?"
Baron: "Whatever."

I was mostly offering you options to consider. In ceremonial contexts trappings and words are important. A High Seat may look like a throne and be used just as a throne is, but it isn't a throne. An office desk may symbolize power and position just as much as a throne would. Or not.

Ultimately, I think this is one of the features of the OTU that I would leave subject to referee fiat. Not in the "every ref decides for his own TU" sense, but in the "they do it one way in one duchy and another way in another duchy" sense (And in the "the father did it one way, but the son does it another" sense too).

One factor that would influence construction is whether your baron is a high baron or an honor baron (if he's a rank baron, he wouldn't have a baronial estate (though the job that gave him his rank might come with a residence)). A high noble would need more facilities and a bigger and more diversified staff for his diplomatic functions than an honor noble for estate management.


Hans

 

[robject]

Well that's a good point. I pretty much assume he's an Imperial baron: in particular, he's the #3 baron, and the system has a Marquis, putting him 3 places away from the Marquisate.

But, I don't want to give him extensive holdings and vast security webs. He's a rich, minor noble in a backwater, and a Bad Guy. Rhinom (Deneb 0717 / B7768AB-8) is not a very important world, and this estate is around a secondary world, not the mainworld (although I did give his planetoid a jump drive and maneuver drive, didn't I?)

 

[DangerousThing]

I noticed the luxury life support was only for a week.

I'd make it a month just in case he wants to entertain them with a planned jump to the next system.

Not to mention in the case of a sudden outbreak of war, it's good to have a place where you and your hundred closest friends/relatives/lovers can go to escape. And if you're a villain, once you're in jump you can do whatever you want to them.... :frankie:

 

[Carlobrand]

I do not recall the OP looking quite the way it does now. Suddenly my responses seem out of place and inappropriate.

Sigh.

 

[rancke]

Well that's a good point. I pretty much assume he's an Imperial baron: in particular, he's the #3 baron, and the system has a Marquis, putting him 3 places away from the Marquisate.

But, I don't want to give him extensive holdings and vast security webs. He's a rich, minor noble in a backwater, and a Bad Guy. Rhinom (Deneb 0717 / B7768AB-8) is not a very important world, and this estate is around a secondary world, not the mainworld (although I did give his planetoid a jump drive and maneuver drive, didn't I?)

All three kinds are Imperial barons; high, honor, rank. They just come by it differently and have different roles to fulfill.

He wouldn't be in line for the Marquisate unless he was related to the Marquis. (Unless there are special rules for this particular Marquisate where the barons sub for him in order of seniority). I think that the usual practice is that a high noble has a designated substitute that takes over when he's absent. Someone he trusts. Often that person would be his seneschal, but it could be one of his barons (Indeed, the seneschal could be one of his barons).

Anmyway, if there's a High Marquis for the system, he would be an honor noble. Much depends on why he (or his ancestor) got the title. If he got it as a reward for services to the Imperium, he can have almost any amount of wealth you want him to have. But if he got it because he was the fourth most wealthy and powerful man on a world with half a billion TL8 people...


Hans

 

[robject]

Politics, in this particular situation, move at the Speed Of Plot.

 

[rancke]

Politics, in this particular situation, move at the Speed Of Plot.

Message read but not understood.


Hans

 

[Fritz_Brown]

I see [BIG SNIPPETY] and so forth.

I like.

The far future leader may not have much need of desks.

Dude, without a desk, where does he put his feet up?!? o:

And if you're a villain, once you're in jump you can do whatever you want to them.... :frankie:

Dude, you forgot the "BWAHAHAHAHAHA" at the end! We're going to have to take away your membership card in the Evil Overlord Society if you do it again.

 

[aramis]

How many post-Medieval stately homes of English nobles have had thrones to show that the owner was a noble and not just a wealthy commoner? I think thrones long ago evolved from merely being a sign of office for any noble to being associated with kings and emperors.


Hans

Some ones I've seen walk throughs on TV have a very obvious throne area with large stately chairs.... but most English nobles have not been the centerpoint for and adminitration nor involved with theater of state.

 

[rancke]

Some ones I've seen walk throughs on TV have a very obvious throne area with large stately chairs....

Large stately chairs are not thrones unless royalty sits on them for ceremonial occasions. Not in recent centuries, anyway.

...but most English nobles have not been the centerpoint for and adminitration nor involved with theater of state.

Neither, I believe, are most Imperial nobles (The lowest level of interstellar government is the duchy). And you can't say the same thing about prime ministers and state governors, yet I don't think many of them sat on thrones. Viceroys may have (I have no idea one way or the other).


Hans

 

[robject]

I do not recall the OP looking quite the way it does now. Suddenly my responses seem out of place and inappropriate.

Sigh.

Consider that an opportunity...

 

[aramis]

Large stately chairs are not thrones unless royalty sits on them for ceremonial occasions. Not in recent centuries, anyway.



Neither, I believe, are most Imperial nobles (The lowest level of interstellar government is the duchy). And you can't say the same thing about prime ministers and state governors, yet I don't think many of them sat on thrones. Viceroys may have (I have no idea one way or the other).


Hans

The illustrations of the colonial governors for the north american colonies have thrones... as do the Viceroys.

Imperial landed nobles are, in fact, rulers of their fiefs, as well as administrative oversight for the local imperial administration within their see. They lack the law-making and judicial aspects of "rulership" but are, unlike British nobles since 1630, part of governance as adminsitrative oversight. Subsector dukes and sector dukes are additionally actual government, and from some descriptions, Marquisates are sometimes exceptions (when granted for a polity with a noble form of government being admitted as a whole - IIRC mentioned in T4, but might be 3rd party).

Government makes laws - that's why imperial government begins at the subsector level - but administration is part of government, and Barons, Viscounts, Counts, and Marquis have administrative oversight as a duty. Duty well beyond even what UK Dukes had since Cromwell.

Likewise, most religions in the west still use thrones - sometimes called the Presidential Throne in Catholic use (and the Bishop has a separate throne in most Cathedrals, off to the side).

The Chair on a Dais reserved for the local lord is, whether called one or not, axiomatically a throne.

 

[rancke]

Imperial landed nobles are, in fact, rulers of their fiefs, as well as administrative oversight for the local Imperial administration within their see.

That's your interpretation. In the interest of not getting sidetracked, I'll just say that it differs from mine, as does much of the rest of what you claim about Imperial nobles.

Likewise, most religions in the west still use thrones - sometimes called the Presidential Throne in Catholic use (and the Bishop has a separate throne in most Cathedrals, off to the side).

That's true enough. Current usage of the term is that thrones are the seats of sovereigns or high ecclesiasticals, neither of which cover Imperial nobles.

However, I grant that, as I point out myself in other cases often enough, usage may have changed 3000 years from now. Perhaps Imperial nobles use thrones to put all those sovereign planetary kings and princes in their proper place.

The Chair on a Dais reserved for the local lord is, whether called one or not, axiomatically a throne.

What axiom? It's not the seat of state of a sovereign or high ecclesiastical. So, no, it's not. Not by current usage of the term.

EDIT: Also, you seem to be assuming that an Imperial noble will exercise his official functions seated on a chair on a dais instead of behind a desk or standing or in a chair at a conference table or in some other fashion. Untill and unless that chair on a dais is shown to be a fact, it is entirely moot what one is, axiomatically or otherwise.


Hans

 

[aramis]

That's true enough. Current usage of the term is that thrones are the seats of sovereigns or high ecclesiasticals, neither of which cover Imperial nobles.

Wrong. Bishops and pastors both have and use thrones. The local pastor is not a "High Ecclesiastical" in any sane understanding. In point of fact, the presidential throne is not the bishop's throne, either. Bishops are a municipal level.

Then again, my local mayor's seat in the assembly's meeting hall is raised above the assembly members, and at one end, and has a large impressive chair (albeit no larger nor more impressive than the assembly members).

I'd say that qualifies as a throne. The Governor of Alaska doesn't have an equivalent seat in the legislature, but the Lt. Governor does, and the Governor's formal office is a very large office chair, huge desk, and seating for a dozen, plus standing room for another 2 dozen. Aside from the desk replacing the dais, it's a small throne-room. (The Governor's working office is somewhat smaller, and not on the capital tour.)

 

[rancke]

Wrong. Bishops and pastors both have and use thrones. The local pastor is not a "High Ecclesiastical" in any sane understanding. In point of fact, the presidential throne is not the bishop's throne, either. Bishops are a municipal level.

Definition of THRONE

1

a: the chair of state of a sovereign or high dignitary (as a bishop)

b: the seat of a deity​

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

Then again, my local mayor's seat in the assembly's meeting hall is raised above the assembly members, and at one end, and has a large impressive chair (albeit no larger nor more impressive than the assembly members).

Are those chairs referred to as thrones?

I'd say that qualifies as a throne.

I say it doesn't. Because why? Because it's not the seat of state of a sovereign or high church dignitary.

The Governor of Alaska doesn't have an equivalent seat in the legislature, but the Lt. Governor does, and the Governor's formal office is a very large office chair, huge desk, and seating for a dozen, plus standing room for another 2 dozen. Aside from the desk replacing the dais, it's a small throne-room. (The Governor's working office is somewhat smaller, and not on the capital tour.)

Is his chair referred to as his throne? Otherwise it's not a throne room but a governor's office. If it doesn't have a throne, it's not a throne room.


Hans

 

[aramis]

Are those chairs referred to as thrones?

The pastor's presidential throne is.

Your choice of dictionary is the most restrictive I've seen for throne, ever, in my entire life...

throne   [throhn] Show IPA noun, verb, throned, thron·ing.
noun
1.
the chair or seat occupied by a sovereign, bishop, or other exalted personage on ceremonial occasions, usually raised on a dais and covered with a canopy.
2.
the office or dignity of a sovereign: He came to the throne by succession.
3.
the occupant of a throne; sovereign.
4.
sovereign power or authority: to address one's pleas to the throne.
5.
an episcopal office or authority: the diocesan throne.
(http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/throne?s=t)
​

"other exaulted personage on ceremonial occasions" certainly fits.

 

[rancke]

The pastor's presidential throne is.

Your choice of dictionary is the most restrictive I've seen for throne, ever, in my entire life...

I just elided the parts that didn't refer to literal physical things you sit on.

"other exalted personage on ceremonial occasions" certainly fits.

I have to grant you that. It's a pretty vague term, though. Will any exalted personage do? How exalted?


Hans

 

[aramis]

I just elided the parts that didn't refer to literal physical things you sit on.




I have to grant you that. It's a pretty vague term, though. Will any exalted personage do? How exalted?


Hans

It's ecclesiastically used for any priest-celebrant's chair when that chair is visually distinguished from others on the dais. (And Catholic rubrics say it's supposed to be, either by height or decoration. Orthodox reserve it for the Bishop, but every parish is supposed to have a throne for the bishop - tho' they tend to be fairly plain.)

I'd put it for leadership positions.

Of course, there's also the slang use - in the US, it's also slang for the commode.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Of course, there's also the slang use - in the US, it's also slang for the commode.

Because when I need to go somewhere that I know I'm in charge, that's where I head!

 

[SanDragon]

Because when I need to go somewhere that I know I'm in charge, that's where I head!

Oh, the many levels of meaning in that line...