• Welcome to the new COTI server. We've moved the Citizens to a new server. Please let us know in the COTI Website issue forum if you find any problems.

Pondering starship evolution

To be fair to Games Workshop, when they wrote A4 they were working with the 77 rules and the Spinward Marches was the distant frontier.

It would be a couple of years until the setting shattering revelation that the Spinward Marches was settled a thousand years ago.

Leviathan belongs to a different Imperium than the one GDW would describe in the Library Data supplements.
 
I'm deliberately ignoring the issues with Egryn and Pax Rulin (they shouldn't be as unknown as Leviathan makes them out to be...)
To be fair to the writers of LBB A4 Leviathan ... those subsectors WERE unknown and beyond the edge of the map when LBB A4 was written and published in 1980.

They aren't Stella Incognita now that we've got Travellermap and other accumulated resources (that would have been impossible to anticipate the arrival of when LBB A4 was being written), so it definitely FEELS anachronistic looking at the contents of LBB A4 as written and seeing the "unknown frontier" depicted as shown in that book.

Note, however, that the pattern (and iconography) used in those subsectors is what you see on Travellermap for the Foreven sector, spinward of the Spinward Marches.
 
To be fair to the writers of LBB A4 Leviathan ... those subsectors WERE unknown and beyond the edge of the map when LBB A4 was written and published in 1980.
To be unfair to them, the edge of the map wasn't the edge of space. I can almost see Egyrn considered as "boonies nobody ever thinks about". But, Pax Rulin, 1/3 of which is Imperial and adjacent to Glisten Subsector? Someone's going to have wandered out there somewhat recently.

Reset A4 a few hundred years earlier (around the First Survey era) and it works fine -- nobody from "civilization" had been out there recently or in force then.

It's also to some degree an artifact of the "small-ship universe" perspective. They had HG (at least HG1st Ed.) but didn't really understand how it had changed the universe. Less traffic, far smaller ships -- not the 3I that it eventually became.
 
Well. 🤔

I think I might have finally gotten all of the details sorted for the SIE Big Clipper such that it's now a matter of breaking out the fine toothed comb and proofreading what I've written (multiple times) until I stop finding mistakes and errors.

When I toss the file into Pages to check word count, the answer comes back ... 15,835 ... for the entire text file. 😳
Character count totals up to 101,103 characters (with spaces) ... although I'm using a few extra here and there to remind me of where to do the post/page breaks. 🥴

Looks like I'm going to need to use posts #1-12 in a new thread in The Fleet to publish it all here on the forums. 😲



Building on all the starship design research (and deck plans) I've done over the past couple years, it looks like the SIE Big Clipper class is going to be my most quintessentially ACS effort yet ... that can be put to good use almost anywhere (that LBB2.81 standard drives are acceptable).

Don't think I'm going to be able to top myself (yet) again after this one. :unsure:
It's the most capable "low tech" (TL=A) yet versatile starship design possible within CT (plus a few documented house rule extensions).
 
[Those subsectors] aren’t Stella Incognita now that we've got Travellermap and other accumulated resources […]
Since stella is a singular star, stella incognita isn’t quite the multiple subsector analogue to terra incognita. Either stellae incognitae (its plural), or perhaps caelum* incognitum, would be a better fit.

* — Caelum is the singular form of “sky”. Its plural form, which unusually has a different grammatical gender to the singular, was almost exclusively used as a calque of the Hebrew word in religious contexts, since the Hebrew word only has a dual form.
 
:unsure:
I wonder ...



Having "perfected" the notion of a 400 ton J2+3 Clipper @ TL=10 capable of external loading for increased flexibility which also has regenerative life support and a fighter escort ... in the form of the SIE Big Clipper class ... :unsure:

Would it be possible to design a 400 ton J2+2 Long Trader @ TL=9 😲 which has regenerative life support and a fighter escort, but no external load towing capability thrown into the mix? :unsure:

The only possible route to success with that would be to use LBB2.81 D/D/D standard drives @ TL=9 ... and the highest computer model available at that tech level would be the model/3.

The real challenge though would be to use a LBB2.81 400 ton standard hull (350 tons main, 50 tons engineering), which would reduce the base hull price relative to a custom hull from MCr40 down to MCr16 (a very substantial savings!) and a reduction in construction time of 56 weeks rather than 64 weeks in Single Production. However, D/D/D drives would "waste" 5 tons of space in engineering, but that is sounding like a price worth paying.

Design a cargo hold that has in excess of 80 tons of capacity so that a Collapsible Fuel Tank can be permanently installed in the cargo hold to enable double jumping ... and you've got the start of a J2+2 "Long Trader" design that could conceivably be designed and constructed at (of all places) ... Paya/Aramis/Spinward Marches (the other end of the sector from Grote/Glisten/Spinward Marches).



Might be worth taking another look at the possibilities ... :unsure:
 
The real challenge though would be to use a LBB2.81 400 ton standard hull (350 tons main, 50 tons engineering), which would reduce the base hull price relative to a custom hull from MCr40 down to MCr16 (a very substantial savings!) and a reduction in construction time of 56 weeks rather than 64 weeks in Single Production. However, D/D/D drives would "waste" 5 tons of space in engineering, but that is sounding like a price worth paying.
The 400Td Standard Hull is the hidden easter egg in the LBB2 ship design rules. IMTU the Big Fat... (er, Far, that's it, Far) Trader -- 400Td, J2/2G, is the reason for that hull and the standard Subby is the cheap knock-off version. Get extravagant and upgrade the powerplant to enable double-fire while you're at it. :)

IMHO, the "waste drive-bay tonnage" is meant to bring the Subby closer to parity with the Free Trader in terms of operating cost per payload ton, despite its bridge being half the fraction of total ship tonnage of the Type A's (the lifeboat is also part of that, in addition to being a possible adventure hook/setting element).
 
5 ton waste in engineering says maker/workshop/parts bin space to me. Or a common conversion to small packet smuggler bay to me…
 
5 ton waste in engineering says maker/workshop/parts bin space to me. Or a common conversion to small packet smuggler bay to me…
It does depending, on your interpretation of the rules. For me, yes, that is usable space. And with the T5 rules, I do like makers so my (mostly) Classic TU does have makers.
 
The 400Td Standard Hull is the hidden easter egg in the LBB2 ship design rules.
I agree.
Even under LBB2.81 hull rules, paying MCr16 for 400 tons of hull plus MCr4 to streamline it is still a final cost of MCr20 on a 400 ton hull ... basically the price of a "dispersed structure that is streamlined" 🤫 on the price of the hull metal. The only other "bargain" of comparable magnitude is the 100 ton standard hull, which costs MCr2 for the hull and MCr1 to streamline it ... but if it were bought custom would cost MCr10 for the hull metal and MCr1 to streamline it into Configuration: 2 (Cone).
  • 400 ton standard hull (streamlined) = 50% cost of 400 ton custom hull (not streamlined)
  • 100 ton standard hull (streamlined) = 30% cost of 100 ton custom hull (not streamlined)
5 ton waste in engineering says maker/workshop/parts bin space to me.
Already ahead of you. ;)
I was already thinking that the "waste space" would go towards EVA airlock(s) as well as "workshop" locker/storage spaces for engineering parts and spares.
It does depending, on your interpretation of the rules.
LBB2.81 is remarkably specific about standard hulls. The engineering section is DRIVES ONLY ... nothing else "counts" for being put into that space. It's basically a bulkhead shielded volume deliberately standardized to put only drives into. EVERYTHING ELSE goes into the "Main" section of the hull.
 
Last edited:
Would it be possible to design a 400 ton J2+2 Long Trader @ TL=9 😲 which has regenerative life support and a fighter escort, but no external load towing capability thrown into the mix? :unsure:
Preliminary draft(s) are settling upon a result @ TL=9 for a 400 ton J2+2 Long Trader with a 20 ton 6G Laser Fighter are so far yielding:

Single/Initial production (100% cost)
  • Total Cost (starship + laser fighter)
    • MCr130.8182 + 43.1505 = Cr173,968,700
Volume production (80% single production cost) (LBB5.80, p20)
  • Total Cost (starship + laser fighter)
    • MCr104.65456 + 34.5204 = Cr139,174,960
High Passenger capacity: 6
Cargo capacity: 121 tons (spend 1 ton of which on 80 ton Collapsible Fuel Tank plus 0.2 ton Demountable Fuel Tank)

So the transport capacity then becomes with 1 week spent at ports of call:
  1. Ticket: 1 = J1 or J2 for 6 high passengers + 120 tons cargo = Cr180,000 revenue x 3 = Cr540,000 per 6 weeks tempo
  2. Tickets: 2 = J1+2 for 6 high passengers + 80 tons cargo = Cr280,000 revenue x 2 = Cr560,000 per 6 weeks tempo
  3. Tickets: 2 = J2+2 for 6 high passengers + 40 tons cargo = Cr200,000 revenue x 2 = Cr400,000 per 6 weeks tempo
That napkin math is looking highly favorable for subsidized and paid off operational service, but is going to struggle to pay for a bank loan on ticket revenues exclusively. However, the cargo capacity is sufficient to be useful in speculative goods arbitrage ... and a 2-4 parsec range opens up a LOT of mobility options for being able to "move quickly" between mainworlds with favorable trade codes to buy and sell at.

Point being that the economics are looking remarkably doable @ TL=9 when operating on a business model of selling passenger and cargo tickets in between "opportunity strikes" circumstances with speculative goods when navigating around as a functional tramp merchant. Wherever the trade winds are blowing ... GO THERE and reap the rewards. 💰

The most favorable "location, location, location" to operate such a merchant starship would be in places that have a lot of trade codes "within striking range" of each other, to maximize the the opportunities for speculative goods arbitrage in the age old effort to buy low/sell high to generate profits. :cool:(y)
 
Preliminary draft(s) are settling upon a result @ TL=9 for a 400 ton J2+2 Long Trader with a 20 ton 6G Laser Fighter are so far yielding:
Aaaaaannndd as is all too predictable :rolleyes: ... I made a change that cascaded through the design (after realizing I'd made an error in the fighter).

TL=9 for a 400 ton J2+2 Long Trader with a 18 ton 6G Laser Fighter are now yielding:

Single/Initial production (100% cost)
  • Total Cost (starship + laser fighter)
    • MCr135.8142 + 42.3605 = Cr178,174,700
Volume production (80% single production cost) (LBB5.80, p20)
  • Total Cost (starship + laser fighter)
    • MCr108.65136 + 33.8884 = Cr142,539,760
So slightly more expensive on the starship (I upgraded from a model/2 to a model/2fib computer on the starship, which makes the design something even the Darrians would feel comfortable buying) while being slightly cheaper on the fighter (I dropped the small craft cabin).



Fun part is realizing that between standard (streamlined) hull (MCr16+4=20), jump-D drive (MCr40), maneuver-D drive (MCr16), power plant-D drive (MCr32) and bridge for a 400 ton starship (MCr2) ... even before adding computer, staterooms and everything else ... the construction budget is already up to (16+4+40+16+32+2) MCr110 @ 100% construction cost. So no matter what you do, it's still going to be pretty pricey. 🤔

All things considered, though ... wrangling that "everything else, except sub craft" down to an additional +MCr25.8142 for computer, staterooms, regenerative life support biome laboratory space, hangar bay for the laser fighter, fuel purification plant and demountable+collapsible fuel tanks stored in the 121 ton cargo bay feels like something of an accomplishment. 😤
 
Aaaaaannndd as is all too predictable :rolleyes: ... I made
... yet more changes, which dropped the construction cost (by about -MCr15) and I think this is going to be a pretty sticky (new) balance point because of where everything lands in terms of capabilities for the price. Remember, that for the starship, hull (+streamlining), and drives plus bridge adds up to MCr110 ... before adding in the construction cost of computer, staterooms, regenerative life support laboratory, fuel purification plant, internal hangar bay and collapsible fuel tank (which combine to add up to an additional MCr19.92).

TL=9 for a 400 ton J2+2 Long Trader with a 16 ton 6G Laser Fighter is now yielding:

Single/Initial production (100% cost)
  • Total Cost (starship + laser fighter)
    • MCr129.92 + 33.62 = Cr163,540,000
Volume production (80% single production cost) (LBB5.80, p20)
  • Total Cost (starship + laser fighter)
    • MCr103.936 + 26.896 = Cr130,832,000
High Passenger capacity: 5
Cargo capacity: 131 tons (spend 1 ton of which on 100 ton Collapsible Fuel Tank)

So the transport capacity then becomes with 1 week spent at ports of call:
  1. Tickets: 1 = J1 or J2 for 5 high passengers + 130 tons cargo = Cr180,000 revenue x 3 = Cr540,000 per 6 weeks tempo
  2. Tickets: 2 = J1+2 for 5 high passengers + 90 tons cargo = Cr280,000 revenue x 2 = Cr560,000 per 6 weeks tempo
  3. Tickets: 2 = J2+2 for 5 high passengers + 50 tons cargo = Cr200,000 revenue x 2 = Cr400,000 per 6 weeks tempo
The advantage of this rebalance is that it doesn't overbuild (high) passenger capacity for Non-industrial world markets while still having a large enough cargo capacity to be advantageous on speculative goods arbitrage with larger lot sizes that need to be transported 1-4 parsecs at a (significant opportunity for) profit. There's also a nice symmetry balance point of "10 tons cargo each for 5 high passengers" when needing to transit a J2+2=4 parsec gap between starports, which (again) feels like a "useful load" quantity for such long distance transits.

Note also that an unrefueled J2+2 can be used as a 2 parsec round trip (or equivalent) through locations where wilderness refueling is unavailable. In locations where the star system has no gas giant and the mainworld has a type E-X starport (no fuel facilities available) and is either Hydrographics: 0 (Desert) or Atmosphere: A-C and Hydrographics: 1+ (Fluid Ocean) where wilderness refueling from water rivers/lakes/oceans simply isn't an option, being able to make 2 jumps without refueling can be both operationally and economically decisive. No point going somewhere that you can't obtain fuel from (reliably) if you don't have enough reserve capacity to get back to someplace you can wilderness refuel from easily. This double jump capacity can make some destinations "practical" which would otherwise be verbotten (assuming you object to "one way journeys" as an operator that result in getting marooned due to lack of refueling).



The moral of the story being ... even when you "think you've got it" ... keep pushing yourself to analyze alternative options nearby and challenge the assumptions you've been making up to that point. Although the first draft may wind up being the best, that winds up being rarely true in practice. Even when you know what you want and think you know how to get it, don't be afraid to keep fiddling around with the numbers (and how they all add up) ... because a lot of the time, you'll learn new things if you just keep looking.



Current napkin math analysis (before pulling out the calculator to be sure) suggests that the class will be profitable on ticket revenues alone when subsidized or paid off (with speculative goods arbitrage counting as "bonus profits" on top), but that ticket revenues alone will be inadequate to make ends meet on overhead costs when including bank loan financing mortgage payments (so speculative goods arbitrage profits will be necessary to make ends meet on the mortgage payments).

Kind of tempted to do a cross-comparison competitive analysis between a 400 ton J1/1G Type-R Fat Trader (MCr100.035) plus 20 ton 1G Launch (MCr14) for a total constuction cost of MCr114.035 in volume production with a ticket capacity of 8 high passengers and 200 tons of cargo ... versus ... my 400 ton J2/2G Long Trader (MCr103.936) plus 16 ton 6G Laser Fighter (MCr26.896) for a total construction cost of MCr130.832 in volume production with a ticket capacity of 5 high passengers and 130 tons of cargo. 🤔

130.832 - 114.035 = MCr16.797 difference in construction cost
  • J2 vs J1 ... and ... 2G vs 1G drive performance
  • 5 high passengers and 130 tons cargo ... versus ... 8 high passengers, 9 low passengers and 200 tons cargo
  • Armed Laser Fighter + Unarmed starship ... versus ... Unarmed Launch + Unarmed starship (armament costs extra and requires additional crew + crew salaries at the expense of passenger capacity reduction)
  • Environmental Control Type V-c for up to 12 people (Cr0 per 2 weeks overhead cost) ... versus Environmental Control Type III for up to 13 people (up to Cr26,000 per 2 weeks overhead cost) plus Low Berths life support (up to Cr900 per delivery destination)
So in terms of tradeoffs, the Long Trader is starting to look mighty favorable as a TL=9 alternative to the Type-R Fat Trader, since the price difference is only +14.73% (so slightly pricier) ... and the Long Trader would be more "self(ishly)-sufficient" on overhead costs (fuel purification plant, regenerative biome life support) making it easier to operate at a profit on less than full manifests (especially when subsidized!). 🤔

Furthermore, even if armed, the Type-R Fat Trader is a remarkably ungainly combatant (1G maneuver, Agility=0 or 1, model/1 computer) ... the word "wallows" comes to mind for some reason. :rolleyes:

Compare that to a 6G, Agility=6, bridge plus model/2 computer equipped Laser Fighter built for escort duty, armed with a triple pulse laser turret (a code: 2 battery!). Yeah, sorry ... NO CONTEST as to which is the better solution for protection against "unwanted advances" from suspected pirates! 🏴‍☠️

I'll take the "mobile turret" fighter screen that can "evade tank" an adversary while my starship attempts to Break Off By Acceleration from the reserve beyond weapons range ... rather than letting the opponent get within weapons range of my starship and hope that my gunners can earn their salaries while not suffering too much damage when exchanging fire. Thanks. :cool:
 
Kind of tempted to do a cross-comparison competitive analysis between a 400 ton J1/1G Type-R Fat Trader (MCr100.035) plus 20 ton 1G Launch (MCr14) for a total constuction cost of MCr114.035 in volume production with a ticket capacity of 8 high passengers and 200 tons of cargo ... versus ... my 400 ton J2/2G Long Trader (MCr103.936) plus 16 ton 6G Laser Fighter (MCr26.896) for a total construction cost of MCr130.832 in volume production with a ticket capacity of 5 high passengers and 130 tons of cargo. 🤔
Here's the first step in doing that economic cross-comparison.
A "down payment" on the notion, if you will. ;)



So in the interest of keeping as much of an "apples to apples" comparison as possible, I'm going to use the Break Even Formula™ that has been appearing in my starship design posts for a while now so as to compute expenses on an annualized basis and then work backwards from that to determine how much revenue must be earned per destination to break even on those expenses.

For ease of comparative advantage computations, I'm going to be adding another table row for computing how much % of the shipping manifest must be "filled" during each delivery to destination in order to reach this break even point, spread across an entire year of operations. Needless to say, the lower the manifest capacity % for the break even point goes, the more profitable a 100% full shipping manifest becomes. Any values over 100% REQUIRE speculative goods arbitrage PROFITS to cover any shortfalls caused by inadequate revenue tonnage capacity to pay for all expenses incurred.

So, starting with the (unarmed) Type-R Fat Trader plus Launch to give us a baseline (of economic performance) to compare with ... 🧐



Type-R Subsidized Merchant

Economic break even formula for annualized costs (including life support, berthing fees, crew salaries and annual overhaul costs)

Cost calculation
  • CPD = (LS + CS*13 + CC*(CM/40+0.001) + FC*DPY + BFE) / DPY + BFD
    • CPD = Cost Per Destination (in Cr), round up to nearest integer
    • LS = Life Support (in Cr) per 2 weeks/14 days (Cr0 crew plus Cr0 high passengers) over Days Deployed per year (tempo * DPY) (Cr26,900)
    • CS = Crew Salaries (in Cr) per 4 weeks/28 days (Cr20,000)
    • CC = Construction Cost in credits (Cr114,035,000 volume production)
    • CM = Construction Multiplier (x0 Subsidized, x1 Paid Off or x2 Bank Loan Financing over 480 months)
    • FC = Fuel Cost (in Cr) to refuel per Destination (Cr500 per ton refined, Cr100 per ton unrefined, Cr0 per ton wilderness) (Cr20,500 refined, Cr4,100 unrefined per jump)
    • BFE = Berthing Fees Extra (additional berthing fees for warehousing the ship at idle during extra crew vacation days annually)
    • DPY = Destinations Per Year
    • BFD = Berthing Fees (in Cr) per Destination (Cr100 for 6 days, Cr100 more per +1 days)
Tables of profit points when allowing 14 days for annual overhaul maintenance within each year (365-14=351 days maximum)
Note: 255.5 / 365 = 70% (minimum required time on route each year for subsidy contracts)

Volume Production break even profit points in credits per port of call when using wilderness refueling
DPY (tempo) + vacation days
Subsidized CPD (in Cr)​
Paid Off CPD (in Cr)​
Bank Financed CPD (in Cr)​
25 (6+8 days) = 350 + 1
62,466 refined, 46,066 unrefined​
176,501 refined, 160,101 unrefined​
290,536 refined, 274,136 unrefined​
% of Manifest Capacity
43.23% . 31.88%​
61.08% . 55.40%​
100.54%, 94.86%​
19 (6+8 days) = 266 + 85
67,608 refined, 51,208 unrefined​
217,654 refined, 201,254 unrefined​
367,700 refined, 351,300 unrefined​
% of Manifest Capacity
46.79% . 35.44%​
75.32% . 69.64%​
127.24%, 121.56%​



100% manifest maximum revenue yields for operators

Tickets

  1. J1/1G/A1, 200 tons cargo internal
Fuel consumption
  • Starship: 40+10=50 tons internal fuel reserves at launch
    • 40 tons jump-2 @ 400 tons combined displacement
    • 0.458 tons for 2 days of maneuver duration to/from jump points @ 4EP+2G (starship)
    • 0.229 tons for 8 days basic power (starship) during jump (including 16 hour routine maintenance after breakout before maneuvering)
    • = ~9.3 tons of fuel (starship) fuel reserves remaining upon arrival at destination
Revenue
Paid Off or Bank Financed
Non-charter (in Cr)​
Paid Off or Bank Financed
Charter (in Cr)​
Subsidized
Non-charter (in Cr)​
Subsidized
Charter (in Cr)​
High Passengers: 8 x1
80,000​
72,000​
40,000​
36,000​
Low Passengers: 9 x1
9000​
8100​
4500​
4050​
Owned Cargo
200 tons x1
200,000​
180,000​
100,000​
90,000​
Total​
289,000
260,100
144,500
130,050



Preliminary Conclusions
  • Subsidized
    • A 47% manifest delivered to each destination ought to generate profits "reliably" every year after accounting for all expenses, even when buying refined fuel at every destination.
  • Paid Off
    • A 76% manifest delivered to each destination ought to generate profits "reliably" every year after accounting for all expenses, even when buying refined fuel at every destination.
  • Bank Financed
    • A 95% manifest is needed to break even when buying unrefined fuel when jumping 25 times per year. Speculative goods arbitrage profits are required to cover revenue shortfalls in order to pay for all annual expenses in every other operational scenario in order to avoid bankruptcy.
These results functionally validate what LBB S7, p22 Costs and Revenues has in print, that in subsidized service with 35% full manifests ... it is possible to make a (small, very very small) profit operating an (unarmed) Type-R Fat Trader plus Launch on the break even edge of profitability when limited to buying unrefined fuel. Switching to refined fuel only, that minimum rises as high as 47% full manifests ... which is still relatively easy/reliable to manage under most nominal circumstances.

By the same token, in a Paid Off condition under private ownership, the break even point for (small, very small) profits require 56-76% full manifests ... which means that chartered services automatically profitable.

Bank Financed equity is where the class will struggle to generate sufficient profits from ticket sales to avoid bankruptcy. Fortunately, the cargo bay capacity is large enough to make most speculative goods opportunities transportable in full. The problem though is that because the class is J1 that the best arbitrage chances may require more than a single jump due to the limited 1 parsec per jump range, limiting how quickly speculative goods can be flipped for profits (during which time the operator will be losing money on the speculative goods until they can be sold).
 
Tell that to the Apollo 1 crew. Pressurization from the fire was one of the compounding problems that led to them having difficulty opening the hatch, and why future hatches opened outward.
The Apollo 1 capsule had no quick method of opening the door FROM EITHER SIDE.

Due to that, the ground crew couldn't get the door open in a timely manner, even if it had been some other, less instakill, emergency.

Additionally, given the pressurization with pure O2 at >1 Atm, and the door being held secure by internal pressure...

They were doomed the instant the fire started.

Apollo 7 had a new door design, one which had a means of rapid depressurization and rapid opening, specifically for emergency emtry.
 
LBB2.81 is remarkably specific about standard hulls. The engineering section is DRIVES ONLY ... nothing else "counts" for being put into that space. It's basically a bulkhead shielded volume deliberately standardized to put only drives into. EVERYTHING ELSE goes into the "Main" section of the hull.
I'm still mostly convinced that the LBB2 "Standard hulls" are just that: for each tonnage there's a streamlined one, and a non-streamlined one -- and that's it. These hulls are effectively identical by type; that is, all "Standard" streamlined 100 ton hulls look like a Scout/Courier, all "standard" streamlined 200 ton hulls look like a Free Trader, and the non-streamlined "standard" 200 ton hulls look like Type Y Yachts.

Now, what that standard hull looks like in YOUR traveller universe (or in particular regions of your TU) is a separate question.
 
Long Trader

Economic break even formula for annualized costs (including life support, berthing fees, crew salaries and annual overhaul costs)

Cost calculation
  • CPD = (LS + CS*13 + CC*(CM/40+0.001) + FC*DPY + BFE) / DPY + BFD
    • CPD = Cost Per Destination (in Cr), round up to nearest integer
    • LS = Life Support (in Cr) per 2 weeks/14 days (Cr0 crew plus Cr0 high passengers) over Days Deployed per year (tempo * DPY)
    • CS = Crew Salaries (in Cr) per 4 weeks/28 days (Cr31,950)
    • CC = Construction Cost in credits (Cr163,540,000 single production, Cr130,832,000 volume production)
    • CM = Construction Multiplier (x0 Subsidized, x1 Paid Off or x2 Bank Loan Financing over 480 months)
    • FC = Fuel Cost (in Cr) to refuel per Destination (Cr500 per ton refined, Cr100 per ton unrefined, Cr0 per ton wilderness)
    • BFE = Berthing Fees Extra (additional berthing fees for warehousing the ship at idle during extra crew vacation days annually)
    • DPY = Destinations Per Year
    • BFD = Berthing Fees (in Cr) per Destination (Cr100 for 6 days, Cr100 more per +1 days)
Tables of profit points when allowing 14 days for annual overhaul maintenance within each year (365-14=351 days maximum)
Note: 255.5 / 365 = 70% (minimum required time on route each year for subsidy contracts)

Volume Production break even profit points in credits per port of call when using wilderness refueling
DPY (tempo) + vacation days
Subsidized CPD (in Cr)​
Paid Off CPD (in Cr)​
Bank Financed CPD (in Cr)​
25 (6+8 days) = 350 + 1
21,952​
152,784​
283,616​
% of Manifest Capacity
24.40% wilderness​
84.88% wilderness​
157.57% wilderness​
19 (6+8 days) = 266 + 85
29,268​
201,415​
373,563​
% of Manifest Capacity
32.52% wilderness​
111.90% wilderness​
207.54% wilderness​



100% manifest maximum revenue yields for operators

Tickets

  1. (J2/2G/A2, laser fighter internal, 130 tons cargo internal
Fuel consumption
  • Starship: 80+20=100 tons internal fuel reserves at launch
    • 80 tons jump-2 @ 400 tons combined displacement
    • 0.858 tons for 2 days of maneuver duration to/from jump points @ 8EP+2G (starship)
    • 0.229 tons for 8 days basic power (starship) during jump (including 16 hour routine maintenance after breakout before maneuvering)
    • = ~18.9 tons of fuel (starship) fuel reserves remaining upon arrival at destination
  • Laser Fighter: 1 ton internal fuel reserves at launch
    • 0.598 tons for ~3 days maneuver @ 3.96EP+6G (laser fighter)
    • = ~0.4 tons of fuel (laser fighter) reserves remaining upon arrival at destination
Revenue
Paid Off or Bank Financed
Non-charter (in Cr)​
Paid Off or Bank Financed
Charter (in Cr)​
Subsidized
Non-charter (in Cr)​
Subsidized
Charter (in Cr)​
High Passengers: 5 x1
50,000​
45,000​
25,000​
22,500​
Owned Cargo
130 tons x1
130,000​
117,000​
65,000​
58,500​
Total​
180,000
162,000
90,000
81,000



Preliminary Conclusions
  • Subsidized
    • 25-33% manifest delivered to each destinations ought to generate profits “reliably” every year after accounting for all expenses, when wilderness skimming for fuel purification to obtain refined fuel and using regenerative biome life support to defray life support expenses.
  • Paid Off
    • 85% manifest delivered to 25 destinations per year ought to generate profits “reliably” every year after accounting for all expenses, when wilderness skimming for fuel purification to obtain refined fuel and using regenerative biome life support to defray life support expenses. This means that interstellar charter contracts to 25 destinations per year will be profitable to the point of earning back the volume production cost of building the class plus a small margin of profit over the course of 40 years.
  • Bank Financed
    • 158-208% manifest each destinations per year are required when jumping 25-19 times per year. Speculative goods arbitrage profits are required to cover revenue shortfalls in order to pay for all annual expenses in every operational scenario in order to avoid bankruptcy.
Comparing these results between the two classes, an interesting result pops out when looking at single jumping (J1 vs J1 or J2), but I think I’m going to need another post (10,000 character limit) to delve into that.
 
So there's a lot of different ways to cross-compare these results. For simplicity (and to avoid burying these forums in a shambling mound of "senate subcommittee reporting") I'll look at the 25 destinations per year on a trade week/single jump operational tempo (double jumping makes things more complex and will come later).

The first thing to notice is the break even points for the two classes and how fuel expenses change things for the Fat Trader (refined vs unrefined) compared to the wilderness refueling = refined fuel for the Long Trader.

Type-R Fat Trader
Volume Production break even profit points in credits per port of call when using wilderness refueling
DPY (tempo) + vacation days
Subsidized CPD (in Cr)​
Paid Off CPD (in Cr)​
Bank Financed CPD (in Cr)​
25 (6+8 days) = 350 + 1
62,466 refined, 46,066 unrefined​
176,501 refined, 160,101 unrefined​
290,536 refined, 274,136 unrefined​
% of Manifest Capacity
43.23% . 31.88%​
61.08% . 55.40%​
100.54%, 94.86%​

Long Trader
Volume Production break even profit points in credits per port of call when using wilderness refueling
DPY (tempo) + vacation days
Subsidized CPD (in Cr)​
Paid Off CPD (in Cr)​
Bank Financed CPD (in Cr)​
25 (6+8 days) = 350 + 1
21,952​
152,784​
283,616​
% of Manifest Capacity
24.40% wilderness​
84.88% wilderness​
157.57% wilderness​



In an "apples to apples" comparison between the two classes (stock trims), we get the following output:

J1/1G Type-R Fat Trader (unarmed)
Subsidized CPD (in Cr)​
Paid Off CPD (in Cr)​
Bank Financed CPD (in Cr)​
Break even expenses
62,466 refined, 46,066 unrefined​
176,501 refined, 160,101 unrefined​
290,536 refined, 274,136 unrefined​
100% manifest revenue potential
144,500​
289,000​
289,000​
Maximum profit margin
82,034 refined, 98,434 unrefined​
112,499 refined, 128,899 unrefined​
-1536 refined, 14,864 unrefined​
J2/2G Long Trader (armed)
Subsidized CPD (in Cr)​
Paid Off CPD (in Cr)​
Bank Financed CPD (in Cr)​
Break even expenses
21,952 wilderness​
152,784 wilderness​
283,616 wilderness​
100% manifest revenue potential
90,000​
180,000​
180,000​
Maximum profit margin
68,048 wilderness​
27,216 wilderness​
-103,616 wilderness​

One of the really interesting results from this cross-comparison between the two classes is how they're actually optimized for different market segments.
  1. The Fat Trader requires higher ticket revenues in order to break even, but has a higher "revenue tonnage" fraction to accomplish this with.
  2. The Long Trader has lower operational overhead expenses and is thus better suited to operate between world markets with very limited demand for interstellar transport services.
  3. The tonnage needed for J2 range severely increases the balance sheet loss margins for the Long Trader when operating under bank financing, even when running at 100% manifest capacity, forcing speculative goods arbitrage to make up a shortfall of approximately MCr2.59 per year(!) ... which looks unsustainably BAD for an operator. :oops:
However, what this "spreadsheet in a vacuum" analysis CANNOT incorporate and quantify is ... THE LOCAL MAP and astrogation factors between mainworlds with various trade codes and populations that provide the necessary context for how these two ship classes ought to operate in practice (as opposed to just "in theory") as merchant ships. This analysis also cannot account for the difference that jump mobility can make when it comes to quicker turnarounds on profits from speculative goods arbitrage, such that jump range can become a "hidden asset" that defies "spreadsheet in a vacuum" quantification and analysis.



Another factor that defies spreadsheet analysis is the "at what price security?" factors of being unarmed vs armed in addition to the refined vs unrefined fuel consideration for misjumps.

Unrefined fuel, if used consistently, yields an unacceptably high probability of misjumps per year, particularly when jumping 25 times a year.
1-(1-1/36)^25 = 0.505531546238378 = 50.55% chance of at least 1 misjump per year

Increase that to 40 years @ 25 jumps per year and you're looking at:
1-(1-1/36)^1000 = 0.999999999999417 = 99.99% chance of at least 1 misjump during 40 years of operations

So for long term security for a capital intensive asset like a starship, refined fuel IS A MUST ... NOT AN OPTION.
In the context of Traveller's original CT format, where you didn't have ongoing "campaigns" with characters (as such), but rather a sequence of individual "one shot" episodes that didn't require a continuing cast of characters, that's not a problem ... since PC Travellers were unlikely to jump 25 times in a single year of game play (so, lampshade goes THERE).

But when you're taking a longer view of things and thinking that starships need to "survive" through 40 years of operations without "getting lost" (by misjumping) then ... playing roulette ... with unrefined fuel becomes a compounding risk that is unacceptable the more often you try your luck with it.

Fortunately, it would be an almost trivial thing to do for a shipyard to install a TL=9 fuel purification plant into an otherwise stock trim Fat Trader (and thus stop needing to buy fuel at starports because wilderness refueling becomes a viable option). Point being that ANY operator who wants to "keep their ship(s) in service" NEEDS to have a fuel purification plant (which will basically "pay for itself" in avoided expenses) in order to consistently operate using refined fuel for EVERY jump.



The other concern for "at what price security?" is ... piracy. 🏴‍☠️
This is where the difference between unarmed vs armed comes in ... and the Cost Of Doing Business™.

For some merchants, a better option is to surrender and "hope for the best" rather than putting up a fight. If pirates "demand a toll" but otherwise leave your starship intact, then payment of bribes to pirates can become just another Cost Of Doing Business™ in a particular region of space. So long as the "toll(s)" being paid out in bribes to pirates don't force an operator into bankruptcy, they're survivable ... you just need to turn over a portion of your "profits" to the pirates in order to keep operating. Note that this kind of "business relationship" to pirates, particularly if repeated, can turn into a "don't bite the hand that feeds you" kind of symbiosis, in which it isn't in the pirates' best interest to drive compliant merchants into ruin ... only the ones who "resist" and make life difficult ... so surrender and bribery can become important strategies for survival.

The alternative, of course, is to invest in a more robust defense, which the Long Trader plus Laser Fighter does, creating a "block and tackle" strategy of "evasion tanking" while the starship executes a Break Off By Acceleration maneuver from the "reserve" away from the melee between the Laser Fighter and an attacking pirate craft. The matchup ought to be "unfavorable enough" to deter intercept attempts by pirates (who know what they would be getting themselves into) attempting to match vectors with and board a Long Trader. That deterrence factor is something that must be invested in up front, but which pays itself off over time through avoidance of both "unwanted encounters" and the occasional "imperial entanglements" that some clients would rather not deal with.

Again, a possible expense which simple spreadsheet math in a vacuum cannot account for over multiple years of operations, particularly since the piracy risk is something that varies widely depending on which regions a starship is being operated in.



Next up ... the "Hidden Advantage" of double jumping when dealing in speculative goods arbitrage!
 
Long Trader

Economic break even formula for annualized costs (including life support, berthing fees, crew salaries and annual overhaul costs)

Cost calculation
  • CPD = (LS + CS*13 + CC*(CM/40+0.001) + FC*DPY + BFE) / DPY + BFD
    • CPD = Cost Per Destination (in Cr), round up to nearest integer
    • LS = Life Support (in Cr) per 2 weeks/14 days (Cr0 crew plus Cr0 high passengers) over Days Deployed per year (tempo * DPY)
    • CS = Crew Salaries (in Cr) per 4 weeks/28 days (Cr31,950)
    • CC = Construction Cost in credits (Cr163,540,000 single production, Cr130,832,000 volume production)
    • CM = Construction Multiplier (x0 Subsidized, x1 Paid Off or x2 Bank Loan Financing over 480 months)
    • FC = Fuel Cost (in Cr) to refuel per Destination (Cr500 per ton refined, Cr100 per ton unrefined, Cr0 per ton wilderness)
    • BFE = Berthing Fees Extra (additional berthing fees for warehousing the ship at idle during extra crew vacation days annually)
    • DPY = Destinations Per Year
    • BFD = Berthing Fees (in Cr) per Destination (Cr100 for 6 days, Cr100 more per +1 days)
Tables of profit points when allowing 14 days for annual overhaul maintenance within each year (365-14=351 days maximum)
Note: 255.5 / 365 = 70% (minimum required time on route each year for subsidy contracts)

Volume Production break even profit points in credits per port of call when using wilderness refueling
DPY (tempo) + vacation days
Subsidized CPD (in Cr)​
Paid Off CPD (in Cr)​
Bank Financed CPD (in Cr)​
15 (6+8+8 days) = 330 + 21
36,619​
254,673​
472,726​
% of Manifest Capacity
J2+1 = 26.16%, J2+2 = 36.62%
J2+1 = 90.96%, J2+2 = 127.34%
J2+1 = 168.84%, J2+2 = 236.37%
Maximum profit margin
J2+1 = 103,381, J2+2 = 63,381
J2+1 = 25,327, J2+2 = -54,673
J2+1 = -192,726, J2+2 = -272,726
12 (6+8+8 days) = 264 + 87
46,299​
318,866​
591,432​
% of Manifest Capacity
J2+1 = 33.08%, J2+2 = 46.30%
J2+1 = 113.89%, J2+2 = 159.44%
J2+1 = 211.23%, J2+2 = 295.72%
Maximum profit margin
J2+1 = 93,701, J2+2 = 53,701
J2+1 = -38,866, J2+2 = -118,866
J2+1 = -311,432, J2+2 = -391,432



100% manifest maximum revenue yields for operators

Tickets

  1. (J2/2G/A2, laser fighter internal, 90 tons cargo internal
  2. (J2/2G/A2, laser fighter internal, 90 tons cargo internal
Fuel consumption
  • Starship: 80+20=100 tons internal fuel + 40 collapsible fuel tank fuel reserves at launch
    • 80 tons jump-2 @ 400 tons combined displacement
    • 40 tons jump-1 @ 400 tons combined displacement
    • 0.858 tons for 2 days of maneuver duration to/from jump points @ 8EP+2G (starship)
    • 0.458 tons for 8 days basic power (starship) during jump (including 16 hour routine maintenance after breakout before maneuvering)
    • = ~18.6 tons of fuel (starship) fuel reserves remaining upon arrival at destination
  • Laser Fighter: 1 ton internal fuel reserves at launch
    • 0.797 tons for ~4 days maneuver @ 3.96EP+6G (laser fighter)
    • = ~0.2 tons of fuel (laser fighter) reserves remaining upon arrival at destination
Revenue
Paid Off or Bank Financed
Non-charter (in Cr)​
Paid Off or Bank Financed
Charter (in Cr)​
Subsidized
Non-charter (in Cr)​
Subsidized
Charter (in Cr)​
High Passengers: 5 x2
100,000​
90,000​
50,000​
45,000​
Owned Cargo
90 tons x2
180,000​
162,000​
90,000​
81,000​
Total​
280,000
252,000
140,000
126,000



Tickets
  1. (J2/2G/A2, laser fighter internal, 50 tons cargo internal
  2. (J2/2G/A2, laser fighter internal, 50 tons cargo internal
Fuel consumption
  • Starship: 80+20=100 tons internal fuel + 80 collapsible fuel tank fuel reserves at launch
    • 80 tons jump-2 @ 400 tons combined displacement
    • 80 tons jump-2 @ 400 tons combined displacement
    • 0.858 tons for 2 days of maneuver duration to/from jump points @ 8EP+2G (starship)
    • 0.458 tons for 8 days basic power (starship) during jump (including 16 hour routine maintenance after breakout before maneuvering)
    • = ~18.6 tons of fuel (starship) fuel reserves remaining upon arrival at destination
  • Laser Fighter: 1 ton internal fuel reserves at launch
    • 0.797 tons for ~4 days maneuver @ 3.96EP+6G (laser fighter)
    • = ~0.2 tons of fuel (laser fighter) reserves remaining upon arrival at destination
Revenue
Paid Off or Bank Financed
Non-charter (in Cr)​
Paid Off or Bank Financed
Charter (in Cr)​
Subsidized
Non-charter (in Cr)​
Subsidized
Charter (in Cr)​
High Passengers: 5 x2
100,000​
90,000​
50,000​
45,000​
Owned Cargo
50 tons x2
100,000​
90,000​
50,000​
45,000​
Total​
200,000
180,000
100,000
90,000
 
Back
Top