Possible Mars Habitat

[Spinward Scout]

The Queen B (Bioshielding) 2 Bedroom 2 Bath Mars Apartment

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:360924

I can't really see it working without an airlock of some sort - one could be attached to the 'mud room'. There needs to be a communication room, too, I'd think. A library, a rec-room separate from the lounge, an exercise room, a workshop or lab (unless those facilities are elsewhere), an office. A designated medical 'sickbay'. A bathroom should be right next to each bedroom. And there's no really 'personal space' where someone could go just to be alone (maybe just going outside would be enough?). But I keep wondering why they aren't trying to build underground. They wouldn't have to worry about storms as much and it might give extra radiation protection.

It's a nice modular outpost you could use in your game.

 

[JimMarn]

He replied to a poster who asked about the airlock and said the mud room was the airlock.

Hopefully it is big enough to take care of removing space suits or emergencies where all inhabitants needs to get indoors quickly.

I read a sf book a few years ago by a scientist about people living on Mars. Inadequate shielding did them in. Hopefully this modular design with depleted uranium will be enough shielding. I agree that underground would be a better idea.

 

[inexorabletash]

Not sure I want to trust the life of even an imaginary character to someone that doesn't understand the economics of spaceflight enough to realize how absurd transporting depleted uranium from Earth to Mars would be.

 

[atpollard]

Not sure I want to trust the life of even an imaginary character to someone that doesn't understand the economics of spaceflight enough to realize how absurd transporting depleted uranium from Earth to Mars would be.

Almost exactly my first thought ... especially with virtually free dirt already on Mars just waiting to do the same job, only better (thermal benefits).

An observation from an Architecture School professor is also worth mentioning: "Curved walls seem like a great idea, until you try to add furniture."
Rooms are rectangular because it works, anything else creates more problems than it solves. (YMMV)

 

[pendragonman]

Not sure I want to trust the life of even an imaginary character to someone that doesn't understand the economics of spaceflight enough to realize how absurd transporting depleted uranium from Earth to Mars would be.

And then there is the current absurdity of bringing dirt movers to Mars...

 

[atpollard]

And then there is the current absurdity of bringing dirt movers to Mars...

What 'current absurdity' are you referring to?
At this stage of the game, getting ANYTHING from Earth to LEO to even begin a trip to Mars is the 400 pound gorilla in the room.
An earth mover is only about 2 tons, with a capacity to excavate about 1 cubic meter per minute.
That seems small potatoes (especially compared to the alternatives of shipping plates of depleted uranium or hand digging on Mars for ISRU).
(a single Falcon 9 could lift 6 earth movers to LEO)

 

[pendragonman]

Atpollard, you misunderstand. I wasn't advocating moving DU either. Further, you called moving the DU as an absurdity. I was adding that moving an at least 2 ton dirt mover is also absurd at this point.

If you think it isn't absurd to load an at least 2 ton dirt mover from Earth to Mars, then you have a reason to sound offended. Otherwise, you began the language, I only continued it.

EDIT: Just noticed that Falcon 9 has plenty of weight lift capacity even up to Geo transfer orbit but it is only a bit more than 3 meters in diameter. So a different design of dirt mover is required. Plus, there is the small matter of something to take the dirt mover from Geo Transfer orbit to Mars, with crew, that can put the dirt mover and crew and supplies down undamaged.

 

[Timerover51]

I wonder if this person understands that depleted uranium is a bit of a radiation hazard itself. It still contains some U-235, and U-238 does break down by Alpha Particle decay, albeit slowly. Also, heavy elements are not the greatest when it comes to neutron protection, as the optimum for that is the lighter elements.

Rammed earth might be a viable option for surrounding a dome, depending on where on Mars you are at, and the soil characteristics. You do not have rain to worry about at least, although some form of protection from wind erosion would seem necessary.

Back in the mid 1980s, I was seriously looking at building a polyurethane foam dome house for the high insulation factor. If I had found a suitable plot of land, I had the architect lined up, tentative approval from the county building department (three such homes had already been built in the county), and sourced all of the material. The idea was based on a foam dome called Xanadu that was then in the Wisconsin Dells. I agree that a dome is not the idea shape for furniture, but there are ways of dealing with that. Structurally, it is very strong, and concrete domes are being built in fair numbers. See the following website for some ideas.

http://www.monolithic.org/

Note: It was after we bought a house, under some serious time pressure, that I found the right plot of land. Such is life.

 

[aramis]

A small dozer isn't too big for the lift capacity (the Dragon+Falcon Heavy can carry 6+ tons to the moon based upon the on-paper specs).

The thing is that a dozer won't fit, not that it's too heavy. Still, you don't need a full dozer. A Bobcat equivalent will do.

A Bobcat is under 2m wide, 2m tall, and 3m long, and will fit within the mass limits (they're mostly under 3000kg). But it's not a nice fit into the capsule configurations being developed.

And, to build a colony, you WILL need at least a small front-end loader. Adding a dozer blade and excavator arm as attachments makes more sense than a dedicated one. (Instead of 3 separate devices, for the same mass, you send two and the spare tools.)

And, last I checked, there was an all-electric light duty loader on the market (I don't think it's by Bobcat, but it looks much like one - I've seen them in use locally).

 

[atpollard]

Atpollard, you misunderstand. I wasn't advocating moving DU either. Further, you called moving the DU as an absurdity. I was adding that moving an at least 2 ton dirt mover is also absurd at this point.

If you think it isn't absurd to load an at least 2 ton dirt mover from Earth to Mars, then you have a reason to sound offended. Otherwise, you began the language, I only continued it.

EDIT: Just noticed that Falcon 9 has plenty of weight lift capacity even up to Geo transfer orbit but it is only a bit more than 3 meters in diameter. So a different design of dirt mover is required. Plus, there is the small matter of something to take the dirt mover from Geo Transfer orbit to Mars, with crew, that can put the dirt mover and crew and supplies down undamaged.

I was less offended than confused.
I agree 100% that DU will never be a building material of choice on Mars.

I had thought that some sort of mechanical earth mover would be essential to any serious effort to go to Mars to stay. There is general construction and mineral extraction that will be essential to long term infrastructure that would benefit from some basic construction equipment.

So from the initial assumption that people and stuff have SOMEHOW reached Mars to stay, radiation shielding would be essential, dirt is the cheapest material available, and an excavator is an obvious way to move dirt quickly and easily.

So I was wondering if there was something about Mars dirt movers that I had missed.

 

[atpollard]

And, last I checked, there was an all-electric light duty loader on the market (I don't think it's by Bobcat, but it looks much like one - I've seen them in use locally).

I had been recently reading about vacuum excavation and wondered if Mars had enough atmosphere to move dirt with a vacuum excavator ... now we are looking at both small and light.

 

[pendragonman]

I agree that at least on the first few trips that a more of a multi-tool dirt mover is preferable.

It shouldn't be too stressful to redesign a bobcat to fit a lifting module in a more balanced manner. Perhaps they won't even need to, but design the shipping frame to move the tracks and road wheels (bogeys to some people) and the three or four different tools to make a reasonable lifting module. I should think that making the lifting module a bit larger radius than the engine modules will still be within mission parameters.

The issue is still the long leg from here to Mars and the landing on the other end. Maybe the vessel for the long step will be a lifting body that could take advantage of what atmosphere there is to ease the landing some.

 

[martletsquire]

Balancing the load of a Bobcat-like device is the most difficult part. Definitely have to design one that is transformer-ish to bring all the weight to the mid-point. All the attachments can be used as balance weights and such. Actually, from a design point, this really would not be that hard. Might require some assembly at the far end, maybe sending some sort of A frame crane for help in building.

Now getting the propane up there... Hey, that was a joke. Quit throwing things!!

Actually, this is really irritating because the Meatball agency had pre-contruction designs for all this carp back in the '60s. Damn their eyes, those worthless base-turds that kept us from space

Oh well, such is life.

For a Mars trip we could have had... NERVA. Sigh.

 

[aramis]

I agree that at least on the first few trips that a more of a multi-tool dirt mover is preferable.

It shouldn't be too stressful to redesign a bobcat to fit a lifting module in a more balanced manner. Perhaps they won't even need to, but design the shipping frame to move the tracks and road wheels (bogeys to some people) and the three or four different tools to make a reasonable lifting module. I should think that making the lifting module a bit larger radius than the engine modules will still be within mission parameters.

The issue is still the long leg from here to Mars and the landing on the other end. Maybe the vessel for the long step will be a lifting body that could take advantage of what atmosphere there is to ease the landing some.

Put it into a heat-shield capped "trunk" under a Dragon v2, should be no problem. That sucker can theoretically land its payload on Earth from LEO, so landing on Mars from LMO should be no problem.

 

[ShapeShifter]

My favorite Mars : I'd just rent a nice two-bedroom flat in Greater Helium, with ample accomodations for a live-in Barsoomian dancing-girl. :rofl:

Real Mars :I'd go down, down, down, far from the sun (and its radiation). It is very likely that there are cavern systems all throughout Mars -- some perhaps large enough and deep enough to safely accomodate enclose settlements.

 

[ShapeShifter]

double post. Weird. :?

 

[Carlobrand]

We went from Redstones and Atlases to a Saturn-V in our effort to get men to the moon. Right at the moment, getting to Mars with real live people - and a return ticket - is pretty absurd. Not impossible, simply gargantuanly expensive and involved. I don't know anyone who throws around money on that scale. If we can solve the return-ticket challenge AND bring along all that furniture and equipment that this model implies, the bobcat problem should be a rather small one.

Add: why are we using a mildly radioactive and pyrophoric material as a radiation shield?

 

[leo knight]

I get the impression this is an art or architecture project, not a serious scientific proposal. I looked at the designer's profile, and he mainly does 3D design for printers. As such, maybe not the best for Mars, but maybe for one of those numerous "thin, tainted atmosphere" worlds?

 

[Ran Targas]

Really like this concept! IMTU the Hivers build ships and structures using hexagonal floor plans but I've never been able to convey it as well as shown here.