CT Only: Proto Traveller question
- Thread starter san*klass
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I don't remember that specific quote anywhere. I do remember the literature saying that the current Imperium was the third such in the history of this region of space and the most powerful of the three, but that it is not as strong as it used to be.
If memory serves (and yes, I could look it up on the wiki but it's been a long night), the Spinward Marches were initially settled (at least by Imperials, there were populations already present) during the Second Imperium. So, yes, it was failing, and indeed fell. The Sindalian Empire -- a pocket empire developed during the Second Imperium to Rimward of the Marches -- persisted partway through the Long Night, but collapsed well before the Third Imperium reached back into the Marches to a significant degree.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
The quote is from the CT S:3 Spinward Marches, page 2:
Thanks to everyone for the steers.
So, in summary from your info, (plus stuff from other sources) the 2nd Imperium was in the SM along with a number of smaller polities, all of which failed in the Long Night.
In the early 100's the 3I set up shop in the SM, but even as it grew outward, it was already over extending and weakening itself.
I presume that the "Barbarians" might the remnants of these failed 2I pocket empires?
Also, I think I read somewhere that the early 3I was TL12 at the most?
All further advice greatly appreciated.
So, in summary from your info, (plus stuff from other sources) the 2nd Imperium was in the SM along with a number of smaller polities, all of which failed in the Long Night.
In the early 100's the 3I set up shop in the SM, but even as it grew outward, it was already over extending and weakening itself.
I presume that the "Barbarians" might the remnants of these failed 2I pocket empires?
Also, I think I read somewhere that the early 3I was TL12 at the most?
All further advice greatly appreciated.
The 3I was early (but solid) TL12 at its foundation in year 0, about TL13 after year 300, about TL14 after year 700, and about TL15 after year 1000.
I do not believe the 2I ever officially extended into the Marches, but a number of colonial expeditions and those distancing themselves from the 2I did and settled some worlds and a few pocket empires. And yes, many of the "Barbarians" are the remnants of failed colonies and/or pocket empires during the 2I era.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Vilani refugees from the Rule of Man IIRC.
I am toying with a Proto Traveller Spinward Marches campaign set about 100 years into the 3I.
I am assuming that (as already discussed, above) max TL in the Core worlds is 12. but SM being the wild frontier has a max of 10. And the "Barbarians" are the remnants of SM societies that collapsed during the Long Night. And they will be the Pirate encounters in the Starship Encounters table.
Given a max TL of 10, then, Bk4 weapons are no longer needed and Assault Rifle and Laser Rifle are the most dangerous weapons, overall.
I have written an Excel spreadsheet to convert published worlds to the early days of colonisation, with limited population, TL and starports/bases.
I have already converted Regina subsector and may do more subsector soon.
I have been quite harsh in my presumptions behind the conversions, and even left some worlds as yet unexplored.
I want to center the campaign around the Droyne Ancients and the aliens from Shadows. Maybe uncovering signs of a long past war between the two species.
Anyway, just a few thoughts.
I am assuming that (as already discussed, above) max TL in the Core worlds is 12. but SM being the wild frontier has a max of 10. And the "Barbarians" are the remnants of SM societies that collapsed during the Long Night. And they will be the Pirate encounters in the Starship Encounters table.
Given a max TL of 10, then, Bk4 weapons are no longer needed and Assault Rifle and Laser Rifle are the most dangerous weapons, overall.
I have written an Excel spreadsheet to convert published worlds to the early days of colonisation, with limited population, TL and starports/bases.
I have already converted Regina subsector and may do more subsector soon.
I have been quite harsh in my presumptions behind the conversions, and even left some worlds as yet unexplored.
I want to center the campaign around the Droyne Ancients and the aliens from Shadows. Maybe uncovering signs of a long past war between the two species.
Anyway, just a few thoughts.
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Also some solomani refugees when the 2I was falling, as the Itzin or Gram fleets...
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
The Rule of Man was over 250 years before the Itzin made their exodus. The Sword Worlds were settled even later.
Per SMC, page 18, initial imperium was 1st imperium, not second. IY -2400 ... but that colony on Vanjeen was abandoned by the 1st Imp. Current Vanjeen is descended from some who opted to stay...
The Solomani sent a few ships, but not as the 2I... from those, we get Algine in -1000 or so, and Gram in -399...
the 3I moves in in 60, on Mora, and Regina in 75...
The Solomani sent a few ships, but not as the 2I... from those, we get Algine in -1000 or so, and Gram in -399...
the 3I moves in in 60, on Mora, and Regina in 75...
Developing this campaign further, I am wondering what levels of 3I feudalism would oversee this expansion/colonisation project?
Even though all is far, far simpler and smaller, at present, I would still assume that a Subsector Duke will still be in overall control. With Barons running the few larger colonies (Pop 6), Knights running the 10-20 medium sized colonies (Pop 4-5) and, maybe, non-nobility Soc 9-10 administrators leading the small (Pop 2-3) colonies, and doing the nobles mundane or hands on "dirty work" in their colonies. Be interesting to hear if this makes sense (or not)?
Even though all is far, far simpler and smaller, at present, I would still assume that a Subsector Duke will still be in overall control. With Barons running the few larger colonies (Pop 6), Knights running the 10-20 medium sized colonies (Pop 4-5) and, maybe, non-nobility Soc 9-10 administrators leading the small (Pop 2-3) colonies, and doing the nobles mundane or hands on "dirty work" in their colonies. Be interesting to hear if this makes sense (or not)?
It might depend on exactly how many worlds (and their respective populations) are initially colonized. It is possible that if there are only a few worlds initially, the group might be administered as a "spur" overseen by the adjacent subsector (and respective Subsector Duke) until there is enough settlement to warrant the appointment of a Subsector Duke or a lower rank interim regional administrator. As the regional settlement grows, the senior noble in the region (possibly a Count or Marquis) might be acting regional administrator and answer to an adjacent Subsector Duke until a local Subsector Duke is finally appointed once enough of the subsector has been assimilated and/or colonized.
My guess (i.e. opinion) would be that any senior Imperial administrator would be at least Soc=10 (based on the Noble career in Sup4/CotI, this seems to be the level at which the Imperium takes notice of a person). Deputies and lower-level Imperial Bureaucrats might be Soc=9.
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Given that the effective control hierarchy for the OTU is ...
- Emperor
- Archdukes
- Sector dukes
- Subsector Dukes/Counts
- Local world nobles
Note that there are fewer levels of infeudation
| Emperor | |||||
| Dukes, Counts, Marquis/Viscounts, Barons, Baronets, knights | Arcdukes | ||||
| Baronets, Knights | ||||
| Heirs |
Also unlike the Medieval systems of Europe, they are answerable to nobles to whom they are not infeudated/subinfeudated.
Noting that the Early British system had only 4 layers of infeudation...
- Crown
- Baronage (including Dukes, Earls, Viscounts, and Barons simple). Occasional Knights Royal (Knights of the Crown who were not vassals of the greater barons).
- Vauvasar lords - Sworn to the local Baron (be they baron to duke). Some (Knights Bannerette) had vassal knights; others were vassal knights of the Baronage.
- Landed Knights sworn to the Vauvasar Lords.
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