Proto-Traveller

[mike wightman]

Ahh, but proto-Traveller doesn't have to be burdened with the OTU, just the stuu we want to keep from the early adventures and supplements.

The idea of STL sleeper ships was used several times within the OTU anyway, your idea just extends it - in a good way I think.

The variations in these "minor" human races could be explained by genetic engineering to adapt to their new homes - it could even be transhumanists who fled the Earth in the first place to avoid some sort of backlash against the "inhuman" nature of the transhumanists...

this backlash could also explain the dark age that follows...

 

[The Oz]

Thanks for the comments.

Sigg: Yes, I got the idea of rating drives for "dtons of thrust" from Ken Pick's article on the Freelance Traveller webpage. And it does work as you go on up the drive potential table in Book 2 but there is a change in the progression when you get to the "W", "X", "Y", and "Z" drives.

Robject: I wouldn't mind letting small craft go over 6Gs acceleration either, but that was just too much a change for me to propose. I'd let them go to 12Gs, given a big enough drive system. But I would keep acceleration compensators at 6Gs, so any small craft doing more than that would need rules for handling the G-stress on the occupants.

The fuel consumption of the small drive drives is basically borrowed from a house rule of my own: I long ago changed the fuel requirements for Book 2 drives to be based on the letter rating of the drive, and not the drive rating you got from the drive potential table. I never liked the idea that the same "F" powerplant needed 60 dtons of fuel in a 200-dton hull but only 10 dtons in a 1000-dton hull. Take the dtons of thrust produced by that letter drive system and divide that by 20 and you get the dtons of fuel needed. My proposed small craft drives are consistent with this idea, as long as you remember that I cut the endurance of small craft powerplants to one week instead of one month.

 

[plop101]

From the Oz:

Book 2 small craft design system, by Steve Osmanski <snippaged>

This goes in the hard copy, yes sir.

I'm gonna use that life pod for a design I'm working up.

Keep up the good work sir.

 

[The Oz]

Originally posted by thrash:
Just a reminder: there is a canonical version of this rule in Beltstrike; see here for a quotation. You should be able to adapt it to sub-100 dton vessels without too much trouble.

Yes, but that rule doesn't change the fuel requirements when designing a craft. I don't know why it doesn't but it doesn't.

 

[robject]

Oz,

I think the component-system-concept is very, very cool.

 

[The Oz]

Originally posted by robject:
Oz,

I think the component-system-concept is very, very cool.

Thank you, sir, thank you.

 

[Flynn]

Excellent work, Oz.

I hope that you'll consider submitting that to Stellar Reaches once it's completed to your liking. It would make an excellent article, I think.

With Regards,
Flynn

 

[The Oz]

That's true, Thrash. Using the Beltstrike rule would be especially useful for craft that are intended for a very short duration. All that would really have to be done would be to remove the rule about having a 1dton minimum fuel tank size.

My work pod, for instance, really doesn't need weeks of duration, given that it only has 24 hours of life support. If the power plant duration could be matched to the life support (with perhaps some extra for a safety margin) you might be able to make a 3 dton small craft, which with a Pod engine would pull 5Gs.

Using Beltstrike fuel consumption (and dropping the 6G limit) would also allow for sublight racing: trying to get ships as small and agile as possible, with just enough fuel to get through the course. Drop tanks for racing shuttles, anyone???

 

[plop101]

Back to the proto-known universe...

Some questions about the sectors.

ZDT GVU ??? ??? ??? ???

??? SM CORE LEY M-A ???

??? ORV S-R G-R C-M 2K-Wlds

??? ASL ??? ??? ??? ???

G-R is Glimmerdrift
C-M I'm guesing is Crucis Margin
What is M-A?

Also, did we decide to put 2K worlds trailing of Crucis Margin? (As shown above)

I don't think Corridor would fit right with the Proto Core Sector I saw. Thoughts?

If we leave it as above, we still have 24 sectors, which is still a big universe to play with. We could call it the 4x6 universe

 

[Piper]

The problem with the fuel rates from Beltstrike is that they're too low by a large factor.

Consider: A Book 2 Type-S has 20 tons of M-Drive fuel.
If basic power is .05 x 4 weeks = 0.2 tons
2G constant thrust is 0.7 x 4 weeks = 2.8 tons
Total: 3 tons

17 surplus tons can't be explained in any reasonable manner. I suggest that the fuel use rate in Beltstrike was intended to be for a 10 minute turn. You'll notice that multiplying the thrust fuel by 6 yields around 16.1 tons. This totals 16.3 tons and leaves a much more reasonable 3.7 ton reserve.

Interestingly enough, if you compare this to the Book 2, (first edition) small craft fuel rates you'll see that ships are about 5 times more fuel efficient than small craft.

 

[robject]

Originally posted by The Oz:

Using Beltstrike fuel consumption (and dropping the 6G limit) would also allow for sublight racing: trying to get ships as small and agile as possible, with just enough fuel to get through the course. Drop tanks for racing shuttles, anyone???

Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes.

Need this.

Absolutely.

Gas Giant Circus Maximus.

 

[plop101]

In Proto-Traveller...

Its Jump-4 from Chamois/Trins Vale/Sp March 3139 to
Amkhalarug/Ultima/Sol Rim 0301.

Its Jump-2 if you have a Deep Space Rift Station at 0140 Core Prime Sector.

I love this...

 

[Jeffr0]

More random thoughts on Background notes:

I just noticed that one of the rumors features an obnoxious official. He boasts that with 4 Kinunir Battlecruisers in a subsector, that the Imperium can handle any military problem that might arise.

But he's not talking about Zhodani invaders-- he's talking about keeping the local systems in line. (!!)

Also... this line implies that the Kinunir was, at least in the Spinward Marches, the equivalent of what would later be referred to as "Happy Fun Balls" and all that....


-----------------------------
Also... Adventure 4 Leviathan features an Exploration mission into the unknown-- staged from the Spinward Marches no less. Everything I've ever read about "Strange New Worlds" in Traveller says that you have to go to another time period in order to get this... and yet here it is. (It's a killer supplement... gotta be one of my favorite single LBB's yet. Not only to you have exploration, but you've got a 'game' focusing on economics at a higher level than just the tramp freighter-- and you also get a picture of what those various Merchant ranks really mean in the 'real world.')

Anyways... what I want to see in my own Proto Traveller campaigns is more 'unknown' areas. The Scout service may know more than they're telling... but for most people, they will not know anything beyond the fact that there's probably some sort of system in such and such a hex.

Of course, the Imperium is known to pressure the map companies into deleting interdicted systems from the maps....

Maybe "Red Zones" don't officially exist?

 

[Flynn]

As far as sectors go, I'd rather see a final picture that's something like 4X4 or something roughly square. The reason I say 4X4 is that you can cover the details in a four simple domain-style sourcebooks and be done with it. Everything else is frontier, for the Referee to design as they wish. Of course, a 4X6 universe isn't that bad, either, with only six domain-style docs to cover that.

You can get closer to the 4X4 by shifting the 2K Worlds above M-A instead of beside CM.

In order to use the Alien Modules, I'd put the Hiver stuff below C-M, in the corner there, and place Lair in the sector coreward of Ley.

If you shift ZDT and GVR over one sector to trailing, you get the full top row complete. With the Hiver worlds below, you'd only have two more sectors to define, the ones rimward of S-R and G-R.

Just some thoughts,
Flynn

 

[Flynn]

Perhaps one of the sectors across the rimward edge could be Old Expanses, if FASA's High Passage articles that started detailing it fall within the appropriate time restrictions.

Two more credits,
Flynn

 

[plop101]

Ok, let me jot this down. The 4x4 known universe:

Zhodane-----GVU-----Lair-----2kwld

SP March----Core-----Ley-----M-A

OutRV------Sol------Glim-----C-M

Asl(DN)----1??------2??------Hive

For 1?, how about Aldeberan?
For 2?, Neworld?

Nope, moving the zho's over doesn't work for me.
How about a compromise? the 4x5 universe:

Zhodane-----GVU-----3??------Lair-----2kwld

FF?------SP March----Core-----Ley-----M-A

FF?------OutRV------Sol------Glim-----C-M

FF?-------Asl(DN)----1??------2??------Hive

This would make a nice circular empire, with a little "worm" rift running through it. The Zho Consulate would be mostly one sector, same for the Hive and the Centaurs. The Sol Con would be smaller but same proporsions. Sector 3?? would let you put a roof on the Imperuim, rounding things out. That leaves Outrim void, Dark Nebula, and
3 "Final Frontier-FF" sectors spinward to go exploring. Dark Nebula would get done like the original game, not the DGP way, so the Aslan would be smaller and easier to deal with, and you could have that Solomani quadrant of to the side, kinda like Five Sisters is in the Marches.

Also, is M-A Gateway? I feel like the guys at Midway trying to figure out what objective A-F meant.

 

[Flynn]

Marantha-Alkahest was the sector that Judge's Guild released, which was in turn eventually decanonized and replaced with Gateway sector.

Given the nature of this discussion, the PT Universe is based on the concept of the PTU as defined by products released before the Atlas of the Imperium, so Gateway doesn't exist in the PTU, only the Marantha-Alkahest sector.

Hope that helps,
Flynn

 

[plop101]

from Flynn:

Marantha-Alkahest was the sector that Judge's Guild released, which was in turn eventually decanonized and replaced with Gateway sector.

Ok. Thanks, Truly. Thats been buggin my neurons trying to figure that one out. Thankyou Thankyou.

Ok. Nobody buyed the 4x5 universe. Bummer.
Its just that I liked Gvurrdon where it was, and Pandrin/Uthe next to Regina. The 4x4 way takes that out and puts the Zhos in that area.

Zhodane--Gvurrdon------Lair-----2kwld

Spinward Marches--Core--Ley--Marantha-Alkahest

Outrim Void--SolRim--GlimdrReach--Crusis-Margin

Dark Nebula--Aldeberan--Neworld--Hive Federation

I still wish we could do this:

Zhodane-----GVU-----???------Lair-----2kwld

FF?------SP March----Core-----Ley-----M-A

FF?------OutRV------Sol------Glim-----C-M

FF?-------Asl(DN)----Ald-----Nwld------Hive

Come on folks! Vote for the 4x5 universe!

 

[mike wightman]

I still have a Corridor sector IMPTU
It's the only way I can see to have an old , decadent empire that hasn't expanded and developed the Spinward Marches beyond the frontier/client state/pocket empire feel I like.

Oh, and a great rift sector so I can keep the Islands subsectors. Unless they are moved into the Out Rim Void...

 

[Flynn]

Hey, plop101,

Notice that no one has bought off on the 4X4 suggested PTU either.

I've only made the suggestion to bring things a bit closer together, and make all of the PTU reasonably accessible and easier to detail.

Enjoy,
Flynn