Question for Referees and Players

[Sgt Biggles]

Referees: If you were to start a Twilight campaign tomorrow would you set it in the original timeline (1995-2000) or advance the date to some point in the near future?

Players: Would you enjoy playing in a Twilight campaign set in the original timeline (1995-2000)?

Thanks for taking the time to answer.

 

[DElrick]

Well, I'm actually looking at starting a new game with my players sometime soon. It will be my first Twilight game in a few years and I'm looking foward to it.

I considered using the original (1st edition) timeline, but eventually I decided to go with a Merc 2000 game instead, mainly because describing the whole Warpac/twilight war thing would be too much trouble considering the game will probably only last a few months.

If I was going to use the Twilight timeline anyway, I'd probably use the middle east sourcebook as I could introduce the background of the war in fairly easy chunks.

I hope this helps.

Cheers

David

 

[William]

Original timeline using 2.2 rules. I find the story holds together better for me if I stick to it. In my T2k world the change point is that on March 11, 1985, Mikhail Gorbachev does not become party secretary but Victor Grishin (Chernenko's picked successor in the real world) does. This allows the timeline to unfold as per the original in a very easy and believable fashon. No glastnos, no peristroika, no thaw in relations ... Boom!

William

Copyright 2004

 

[kafka47]

As someone who lived in Eastern Europe, don't be so sure about no Glasnost or perestroika. These things were not predestined but the system could not function without them. There is a good book by the reporter from the Christian Science Monitor that accurately protrays events.

In the USSR, the military may have thought that it could take on the West but in most cases, it knew that the conscripts would be better served building dachas for Generals (so called "snowdrops"). Now even a limited nuclear war would put a damper on that.

 

[Ranger]

As a ref, I've got an alternate timeline I've been chipping away at that would start the game three to four years from the present (any particular present date). I call it Twilight 200? (I'd like to scan in the old mushroom cloud from the origian cover and shrink it down and play with it to make the question mark).

 

[Herodotus]

I have played all versions of T2K and have always kept the orginal (V1.0) history. Even after the year 2000 had come and gone, I kept the orginal history. I guess you could think of it as an alternate history. I always thought it was better writen and thought out. Notice I didn't say "more realistic", just better. I suppose you could argue, "Hey, it didn't happen that way. What about the break up of the Soviet Union?" Well, none of it happened at all. Even when I was playing it in the mid 80's we knew (or at least hoped like heck) it wasn't going to happen. It was always fiction. Then it was a "what if this happens", and now is a "what if this had happend" fiction.
Now, having said that, the orginal history for T2K may not be to all players tastes. Many players are more intrested in a future apocalypse than what the world would be like now if one had happend in the past. Most people perfere future science fiction to retro sci-fi (Hey! I loved Space 1889.)

 

[Sgt Biggles]

Thank you for your thoughts folks.

Over the last few years sinse GDW closed their doors I have ran several T2000 campaigns and always advanced the timeline about 15 years, keeping the feel that this could be our future.

Recently I introduced the game to some younger players at our local gamestore games night and we talked about the original history. I was a bit surprised to find these 20 something gamers had little understanding of the coldwar and how the Twilight war could have happened. They liked the concept but treated both the future scenerio and the past scenerio pretty much the same. "OK old guy, we get it. Lets play." So we did.

It seems your responses support that thought as well. The prior history of the game is nice and all, but it is the playing of the game which matters.

Thanks again.
SB

 

[Antenna]

Hi new on this board, found that there was a new T2k board in town

I have just started my new session of T2k game in Poland with V2.2 storyline with some old players and new ones.

I have also played the finnish modules once but my finnish wasn't the best (even if I'm born in Finland)

Last T2k Campaign that lasted 8 months
Iran (Own adventures based on RDF Sourcebook)

The best session was 15 months long covering :
Escape from kalizs
Black Madonna
The free city of Krakow
Pirates on the Vistula
The ruins of Warsaw

Before that I had a 5 month long session with some munchkins (YUCK) that covered
Airlords of of the Ozark
Armies of the Night

And then on our clubs MicroCONS
Numerous own adventures that can be played during one night.

Before that I played 2 months one of the finnish modules Kööpenhaminaan! (TRANSLATION: Copenhagen)

Of course there has been periods I've played other games between those listed above.
And I have to tell that I'm a GM

Other games I GMed is Traveller TNE, Dark Conspiracy, Numerous own settings for the GDW houserules (aka T2k V2.2 with own houserules)

Own homepage regarding GDW houserules is up on
www.ludd.ltu.se/users/antenna/

Antenna

 

[Alathan]

That's a great question. For me, it's difficult to answer because I've been working on BOTH at the same time.

To start with, I've recently just restored my Twilight:2000 collection (I'd been missing some books for many years) and I've been slowly working on my gaming group to talk them into trying out the original 1.0 game, complete with the original scenario set in 2000 against the Soviets. Fortunately all of my fellow players are old enough to remember the Soviet Union well enough, though they do admit the scenario is rather dated... but they've hinted they're still willing to give it a try.

At the same time, I've been working on a new and updated World War scenario set in the year 2033. This is more of a challenge than I had anticipated however; new weapons, vehicles and technologies are not as difficult to predict (just look at what's being worked on right now), but the actual political situation 10, 20 or 30 years from now is not so easy to plan out in a fairly realistic manner. Everyone has their own ideas as to what will or could happen, but engineering it to produce a Twilight-like war is a bit tricky... but it is a fun challenge nonetheless.

 

[kaladorn]

Why do I think that a Twilight War scenario now would have to involve some of:
- Asymetric Conflict
- Shadowy Terrorist Organizations
- Radiological, Nuclear or Biochem deployed against cities by Terrorists
- China vs. USA
- Rogue Nations
- The latest round of Missile Defence (could trigger something)
- Some sort of generalized collapse of the US economy or policitcal system which breaks the US forces... otherwise their Hyperpower status will leave any competitor in the dust

Anyway, for me, I couldn't to the old story. Escape for Kalisz has one of the best thought and detailed setups of any game. But the history has passed it by.

I suppose another problem is that when we were younger, post apocalyptic things were neat. We had Gamma World, Aftermath, Morrow Project, T2K and I'm probably forgetting a few others. But we then realized these kinds of worlds are just too grim for our tastes -- you don't recover much in the time frame of the game, and in many cases you preside over the gradual decline (T2K has this, TNE Trav has this) of civilization. Not really our bag... just a little too depressing to be interesting. Some of the same reason we don't play Evil much anymore in FRPGs. We've just moved beyond it and the real world seems to have - we want visions of hope and fantasy or sci-fi that is a bit escapist, but leaves one feeling a bit uplifted and that something has been accomplished and that civilization isn't going to hell in a handbasket. ('Where am I and why am I in this handbasket?')

T2K was fun.... and lethal.... and rules V1.0 were a bit weak in points.... but it made for some really interesting stories.

 

[BOHICA6]

SGT Biggles,

I have the same problem when trying to explain the game and the timeline to younger players, but here is the hook I use.

I remind them that this is a survival role-playing game. When I run my campaigns I do it in one of two ways. #1. The party decides on the vehicle that they want to use, then I give them 30 Minuets of real time to 'requisition' equipmen that they want. After the time I go over the list, charge them the $$$ for the items. When they run out of combinded cash, they run out of items. Did I mention its a one time deal?

#2. I issue the vehicle, and the BII. Personal weapons are assigned by the position that the PC holds on the vehicle. Example. The party wants a M1A1 Tank. Why, but OK? The driver and loader get M-16's, the TC and Gunner get M9's. I've also taken the actual BII list for the chosen vehicle and rolled 50% (On a D6), and give the PC's 25% of thier total gold allowance.

The point Im trying to make is that this is supposed to be a survival game too. I try to get them to think, I tell them that before the game starts choose what you put on your LBE because thats all you might have!

Lastly I make my characters do 'map checks' they make skill checks to get from point 'A' to point 'B'. If they screw up, thier lost. Nothing like being LOST 400Km behind enemy line and being out of gas...

Drop me a line anyone and share your ideas.

 

[kaladorn]

Land Nav has to be an important skill once all the GPS constellations are FUBAR.

But one point: It might be fair to argue that parade ground soldiers have very standardized kit. Real soldiers, especially after a conflict begins, tend to end up with lots of 'acquired gear', some of it useful like extra weapons and ammo, or a still or whatever. Some of it crap like a nice carpet they looted from someplace or a set of diamond earings for the next girl they want to woo. Standard TO&E won't capture that aspect. And most of the characters are meant to be veterans of extensive amounts of fighting. Unlike the players running them, they'd know what they need to survive and what makes good trade items by this point.

 

[montanakennedy]

Originally posted by kaladorn:
And most of the characters are meant to be veterans of extensive amounts of fighting. Unlike the players running them, they'd know what they need to survive and what makes good trade items by this point.

You should have seen the look on a GMs face when my first question was - "How much for a carton of smokes?" - and my second was "Can I have 200 cartons?"

 

[kaladorn]

Cigarettes would be harder to get, though Europeans can grow some tobacco and make roll-your owns. Cuban Cigars... they'd be like gold. As would things like various imported alcohols - Scotch, French Wine, etc.

Also good trade goods would be mechanical spares for common vehicles and generators and such, mechanical tools for working on same, cases of motor oil and other lubricants (how often did people change the transfer case lubricants on their LAV?). Any form of medical supplies or drugs. Even the good ole' MRE.

 

[ccmarcellus]

Don't forget Toilet paper... worth more than gold!

 

[Nurd_boy]

Originally posted by Chris Marcellus:
Don't forget Toilet paper... worth more than gold!

isn't that why user/tech manuals are aways too thick?....

 

[Zenith]

I prefer the ‘what if’ of the original Twilight 2000. The way I look at it is that Dungeons and Dragons has been pushing the ‘what if’ with a dash of ‘impossible’ in it sense it’s inception. Twilight 2000’s history may be a ‘what if’ now, but wasn’t it always?

Also by going with the original history it’s a bit more of a polarized way of looking at things instead of trying to mediate ever event in history to make it gel to a war on the level of Twilight 2000.

Also… Tobacco and Toilet Paper would not be commodities at all in a WWIII scenario. Toilet Paper would be pretty much an expendable. (Being replaced with leaves and running water… and it's not for your tooshy.) And any tobacco products would be used in pipes that are ‘easily’ whittled into creation. And remember Tobacco is (basically) a weed and has an ability to pretty much grow anywhere.

 

[ecalupig]

I agree with the you regarding the history of Twilight. We've diverged way too much from the days that it was written. It' an interesting Alternate history that is left well enough alone.

Cigarettes in WWII were a prized blackmarket item on both sides of the war. Stories abound of the lengths that people who needed cigarettes would go to and how those who had access to them would go to profit off that need. In Twilight, I'd imagine that most people would be far more interested in growing edibles rather than tobacco.

Toilet paper would be valuable too I would think. Leaves and even other sorts of paper are awful rough. Don't ask me how I know.

Both though would be considered luxury items rather than necessities.

Originally posted by Zen:
I prefer the ‘what if’ of the original Twilight 2000. The way I look at it is that Dungeons and Dragons has been pushing the ‘what if’ with a dash of ‘impossible’ in it sense it’s inception. Twilight 2000’s history may be a ‘what if’ now, but wasn’t it always?

Also by going with the original history it’s a bit more of a polarized way of looking at things instead of trying to mediate ever event in history to make it gel to a war on the level of Twilight 2000.

Also… Tobacco and Toilet Paper would not be commodities at all in a WWIII scenario. Toilet Paper would be pretty much an expendable. (Being replaced with leaves and running water… and it's not for your tooshy.) And any tobacco products would be used in pipes that are ‘easily’ whittled into creation. And remember Tobacco is (basically) a weed and has an ability to pretty much grow anywhere.

 

[montanakennedy]

Originally posted by EVC:
In Twilight, I'd imagine that most people would be far more interested in growing edibles rather than tobacco.

Yes, but how often have "most people" been logical about what they want?

Dave

 

[kaladorn]

I agree many of these things might be luxury items (well, maybe not medical supplies) - canned or bottled beer, licqour, cigarettes, cigars (BTW, you may be able to grow tobacco lots of places, but a Cuban cigar is a different breed...), and things like (oddly enough) girlie magazines or maps or such like could also all be good and handy trade goods.

So would stuff like plant seeds, fertilizer, etc. All good trade goods. Water purification gear. Distillation equipment.

Even things like the SAS Survival Guide, the Home Medic, Expedient Hand Grenades, SAS Guide to Tracking and Recce, Annapolis Seamanship Guide, Piloting by Chapman, etc. Any solid reference tome that suddenly is much more useful given GPS are out of comission as are most high tech items and society is broken down. Such references could be vital to a small community.

Of course, medical skills and dental skills would be hugely valuable, as would advanced agronomy and related skills or chemical engineering skills. Heck, even Combat Engineers would look pretty handy. And people who could handle UXOs and IEDs would be pretty useful too in clearing farmland of munitions and roads and such. Construction engineering skills or large scale civil/electrical engineering abilities (to help get powerplants and dams and such back online) would also be valuable.