Ramblings on the Imperial Navy budget

[Condottiere]

How many Imperium thirty eight year old plus veterans are drawing pensions?

 

[rancke]

We know that pensions and health care are a major factor in the U.S. military budget. Maybe a lot of that money goes to rather unglamorous but still useful service and post-service support. Travel costs for discharged veterans to return home could be quite pricey.

Already accounted for in the 10% of original cost figure.

Traveller starships cost a lot more per crew slot than 21st Century naval vessels. The figure I've come up with is about 80 times more. Crew costs is correspondingly less important to a star navy.

Also, it's not unreasonable to suppose that the Imperial military spends quite a lot on R&D.

How much is 'quite a lot', though?


Hans

 

[savage]

We know that pensions and health care are a major factor in the U.S. military budget. Maybe a lot of that money goes to rather unglamorous but still useful service and post-service support. Travel costs for discharged veterans to return home could be quite pricey.

Also, it's not unreasonable to suppose that the Imperial military spends quite a lot on R&D.

If we look at MT background. We see highly populated ships and heavily automated ground support. The major 20th century diseases are beaten and we see life extending drugs, if you can afford them. Another assumption is that the high nobles live "Very Well".

Like today you hop on a military ship/plane headed that way.

We have seen a few R&D ships in CT, T20 and MgT. These programs could be long and expensive. What would trials and the development of a Tigress be like? Yeah, 10% of for mass purchase but a prototype could be very expensive if Traveller rules supported prototyping a bit better. A mass production car engine prototype could easily be half a million for each engine and once you look at all factors much more. A billion to build from scratch and redesign an engine.

 

[Dagrill]

If we assume that the "escort" reference is a mistake

Hi,

I assume the reference to escorts is not a mistake, (otherwise it would not be there), but refers to Escorts in excess of 5ktons ie those that can only be designed under High Guard rather than book 2.

Regards

David

 

[Dagrill]

There is also the unknown Traveller assets (planetary navies and armies, non-mainworld, not really empty parsecs, etc.).

Hi,
I would think individual planets are responsible for their own military expenditure. the implication of Strike is that the Imperium only takes a fraction of 1% of the GWP and the average planet spends about 2.1% on it's own military.

Regards

David

 

[Dagrill]

According to Striker, the Imperium gets 30% of a member world's military budget. Planetary military budgets run from 1% minimum to 10% in peacetime up to 15% in wartime for a limited (but .

The numbers I've come up with based on various (IMO) reasonable assumptions I've posted before. Hans

Agreed, I'm sure I've seen the figure of 3% average elsewhere, it's
what I've based MTU on in any event.

I tend to reduce the expenditure for Hi Pop, Hi TL worlds and increase it within 6 parsecs of a frontier, but that's MTU.

Regards

David

 

[Dagrill]

The Scouts I'm inclined to believe are funded out of some other budget, not the military one. (Pure guess).
Hans

Hi,

I would have to disagree the Scouts (MoJ etc all have to be funded out of the Imperium's budget and the Imperiums' sole income source we know of is the percentage military spending the planets gives to the Imperium.

My own take is 60% Navy, 10% Army, 5% Scouts and 25 % everything else,
all that nobility has to be funded somehow, but that's MTU.

Regards

David

 

[Dagrill]

We know that pensions and health care are a major factor in the U.S. military budget. Maybe a lot of that money goes to rather unglamorous but still useful service and post-service support. Travel costs for discharged veterans to return home could be quite pricey.

Also, it's not unreasonable to suppose that the Imperial military spends quite a lot on R&D.

I would agree with this, but quite a lot of R&D doesn't seem to be improving TL very fast...

Regards

David

 

[rancke]

I would have to disagree the Scouts (MoJ etc all have to be funded out of the Imperium's budget and the Imperiums' sole income source we know of is the percentage military spending the planets gives to the Imperium.

My own take is 60% Navy, 10% Army, 5% Scouts and 25 % everything else,
all that nobility has to be funded somehow, but that's MTU.

The figures we have are for the Imperium's military budget. The Imperium has other sources of income (e.g. the Imperial family's holdings in interstellar companies), and I see no reason to believe that the Imperial bureaucracy (such as the MoJ) would be funded by the military budget. The ambiguity lies in us not knowing if the paramilitary Scouts are considered military or not. It's even conceivably that the Scouts are self-supporting (through X-mail revenue).


Hans

 

[Dagrill]

The figures we have are for the Imperium's military budget. The Imperium has other sources of income (e.g. the Imperial family's holdings in interstellar companies), and I see no reason to believe that the Imperial bureaucracy (such as the MoJ) would be funded by the military budget. The ambiguity lies in us not knowing if the paramilitary Scouts are considered military or not. It's even conceivably that the Scouts are self-supporting (through X-mail revenue). Hans

I suppose the MoJ could collect a lot of fines and be self funding, especially with all those prisoners put to work as well.

Agree Dividends could be a significant source of income, maybe fund the bureaucracy.

Still leaves scouts and M o Colonisation at least needing funds from somewhere.

Other Navies include their Scout function in their Navy, so maybe the Scout Budget is part of the Navy budget, a very small part as the Scouts seem to be underfunded.

Regards

david

 

[rancke]

I suppose the MoJ could collect a lot of fines and be self funding, especially with all those prisoners put to work as well.

That would be dead against the Imperial List of Obligations.

(A police organization financed by fines has fallen into disfavor recently. A lot of people see a conflict of interest there. The US Supreme Court has ruled it unconstitutional, for example.)

Agree Dividends could be a significant source of income, maybe fund the bureaucracy.

Still leaves scouts and M o Colonisation at least needing funds from somewhere.

(Why single out MinCol from all the other Imperial ministries?)

This depends completely on how much the dividends provide, which we have no idea of whatsoever. But non-military ministries are not going to get a share of the military budget, because then it wouldn't be part of the military budget.

Other Navies include their Scout function in their Navy, so maybe the Scout Budget is part of the Navy budget, a very small part as the Scouts seem to be underfunded.

Yes, maybe. We just don't know. However, compared to the IN, the Scout budget is likely to be very small, so until now I've simply ignored the question.


Hans

 

[savage]

Hi,
I would think individual planets are responsible for their own military expenditure. the implication of Strike is that the Imperium only takes a fraction of 1% of the GWP and the average planet spends about 2.1% on it's own military.

Regards

David

Sure, but an economy can only support so much military expenditure. Certainly the Imperium takes economics into account when determining their cut.

 

[Dagrill]

(Why single out MinCol from all the other Imperial ministries?)
Hans

I picked out MoCol, as there is this lovely empty world in Vilis sub-sector
that is waiting for funds before the MoCol colonises. (It's a bit of a sore subject given all the less promising worlds there that have been colonised).

I'm guessing their projects are funded by private enterprise though...

Regards

David