Reading a subsector - Regina

[Supplement Four]

Given my work with the post office, I have the view that the boundaries for subsectors are fairly hard, much like city boundaries.

I was thinking that, too, especially when I saw that long main that Paya is apart of. That thing run across several subsectors.

So, like the interstate connects towns, the city and state borders are hard, no matter the distance between city or town.

It makes it easy to set a sandbox just in a subsector, as Traveller often suggests and is done with The Traveller Adventure (though not quite a true sandbox).

I tend to treat subsectors like Regina similarly. The government has drawn a grid and told everyone, "This is the grid you're in." Locally, however, many sophonts are going to say "That's part of the Aramis cluster" or "I'm going to the Far Trace" even though the planet they're heading for is technically outside that particular border. This is also a way to help the players feel like outsiders when they refer to a place by the designation on the map, and a local says "Oh, y'all are headin' fer the Trace".

Yeah, I like that. And, I agree. This also means that Clusters can have sections to them. The Aramis Cluster has the Trace, the Far Trace, and the....you get the idea.

 

[mike wightman]

It also makes lesser noble ranks useful.

A duke has 'made man' status across the subsector, as the 'first level of Imperial governance'...

but he/she can then sublet territories such as clusters etc. to lesser 'nobles'...

It pretty much worked that way in Roman times too.

 

[Fovean]

It also makes lesser noble ranks useful.

A duke has 'made man' status across the subsector, as the 'first level of Imperial governance'...

but he/she can then sublet territories such as clusters etc. to lesser 'nobles'...

It pretty much worked that way in Roman times too.

I have done just this IMTU. Knights may be granted fiefs on individual worlds, Baronets and Barons a single world, Counts may be granted a small cluster, and so forth.

Having said that, subsector borders can be somewhat amorphous IMTU, as commerce is king and some worlds/clusters may find more economic activity (or protection) by aligning with the neighbors.

 

[GypsyComet]

I see subsectors as having fairly hard boundaries (for nobles purposes) under normal circumstances, but recognize that normal is merely common, not ubiquitous. Subsectors with no Duke may be split between the neighboring Dukes, for example, or a world isolated from the rest of its subsector may actually be attached to the neighboring one.

I see these as the exception because it is *good* to keep the fences in place when possible. Ducal influence that spreads by fiat is less interesting and probably less profitable to the Imperium as a whole when compared to situations where that Duke must deal with those who do not owe him directly, are his peers, or have other interests beyond his control. A cluster split between two Dukes, for example, is going to be competitive in ways a single overseer will have difficulty creating.

 

[vegas]

I sure miss Hans Ranke right now. He'd have his own view on this...

 

[Supplement Four]

I can definitely see disagreements between worlds.

One faction may argue (in desperate need of more high tech worlds), "Hey, Vinorian is part of the Aramis Trace, and therefore under the direct control of the Marquis d'Aramis."

The other faction may say(wanting to keep Vinorian under the direct control of the Duke of Rhylanor), "But that's why the Imperium classified the subsector boundaries. The Marquis' reach ends at his subsector border, which does not include Vinorian, no matter if it is part of the Aramis Cluster or not.

 

[Supplement Four]

TECH LEVEL.


Where does that leave us?

Junidy, TL 9, Starport B
Patinir, TL 9, Starport C



A Ref can take this information and decide, with Junidy's A code population and it's Vargr Way Station, is the source of most of the highest tech finished items in the subsector.

But...

Junidy is also an Amber Zone. Does that effect it's exports? Probably.

So, Patinir becomes the technological powerhouse of the Spinward Marches. A Ref could say that Patinir not only provides lanthanum and most of the subsector's traded raw ore but also is the source of the subsector's highest technological companies. The best finished goods in the subsector come from the asteroid belt at Patinir.

 

[Supplement Four]

Aramis Trace: This is the smaller cluster of stars, all within jump-1, that contains Aramis, Natoko, Reacher, and L'oeul d'Dieu. These four worlds are the subsidy route for the March Harrier, meaning that the ship is locked into servicing these four worlds all the time except for the periods of time the ship is allowed to be away from its subsidy route allowed by in the contract.

I was thinking about this tonight. So, the subsidy route is just the four worlds in the Aramis subsector: Aramis, Natoko, Reacher, and L'oeul d'Dieu.

That's obvious because those are the only worlds in the Aramis cluster detailed in the adventure.

But, there is a contract stipulated release from the subsidy route for a period of time each year, which can be saved and exploited later. That's what the jump to Natoko is all about--finding a way to jump out of the trace (by way of the demountable fuel tanks).

But, the Harrier has only J-1 capability, and the contract was written with the off-route contingency. My guess is that the off-route contingency was written with the expectation that the ship would leave the Trace and travel rimward to the other four worlds in the Rhylanor and Sabine subsectors.

The adventure, with the demountable tanks, offers an unforseen direction, out of the Aramis cluster all-together.

 

[GypsyComet]

Junidy is also an Amber Zone. Does that effect it's exports? Probably.

Junidy only gained its Amber rating under the automatic rating caused by the Law Level, an evaluation that was not part of CT. None of the original CT sources show Junidy as Amber.

 

[Condottiere]

One reason subsectors are hard coded could be to break up any possibility for regions to consolidate into actual power centres, the original intent of William the Conqueror's feudalism.

 

[Supplement Four]

Junidy only gained its Amber rating under the automatic rating caused by the Law Level, an evaluation that was not part of CT. None of the original CT sources show Junidy as Amber.

Yeah, I checked it when I first wrote, then I saw in TTA that it was Amber.

I figure anyone using TTA will consider it Amber, and that may affect exports, barring it from being the tech capital that it could be for the subsector.

One reason subsectors are hard coded could be to break up any possibility for regions to consolidate into actual power centres, the original intent of William the Conqueror's feudalism.

Good point. The way they are is the way they are, as laid down by the Great Cosmo Mapping Convention of 012, under Cleon I.

We do have examples of other borders cross the subsector lines, though.

Ruie lies outside the Imperium but inside a 3I dominated subsector (and only one parsec from Regina).

It's a big galaxy. Chances are, there are examples of both out there.

 

[mike wightman]

Junidy is not mentioned as being an amber zone in The Traveller Adventure. It gets three write ups and none of them indicate any amber designation.

 

[Supplement Four]

Junidy is not mentioned as being an amber zone in The Traveller Adventure. It gets three write ups and none of them indicate any amber designation.

You're right! Wow. I thought I saw a circle around Junidy on one of the maps.

My eyes are going crossed!o:

 

[Supplement Four]

I noticed in the Traveller book that Industrial worlds require atmo 0, 1, 2, 4, 7, or 9.

Does that make sense?

You can't have an Industrial world if it has a standard atmo?

What does "industrial" mean? The rules allow only worlds Vacuum, Trace, or Tainted atmospheres to to be tagged as such.

Does "industrial" mean that the entire world is nothing but an industrial complex? Therefore, only worlds with no atmo or otherwise tainted atmos can be industrial?

 

[whulorigan]

I noticed in the Traveller book that Industrial worlds require atmo 0, 1, 2, 4, 7, or 9.

Does that make sense?

You can't have an Industrial world if it has a standard atmo?

I guess the idea is that an entire world devoted to industrial processes will likely taint its own atmosphere, or will be set up on a world with a pre-tainted atmosphere where industrial pollutants do not matter.

What does "industrial" mean? The rules allow only worlds Vacuum, Trace, or Tainted atmospheres to to be tagged as such.

Does "industrial" mean that the entire world is nothing but an industrial complex? Therefore, only worlds with no atmo or otherwise tainted atmos can be industrial?

Since it is at heart a trade code, my understanding has always been that it means the world is a net exporter of industrial products, just as an agro wold is a net exporter of agro products (i.e. in each case they produce significantly more that their own local needs).

 

[robject]

Since it is at heart a trade code, my understanding has always been that it means the world is a net exporter of industrial products, just as an agro wold is a net exporter of agro products (i.e. in each case they produce significantly more that their own local needs).

A source to interstellar economies to the point where even Free Traders can profit from it.

 

[Supplement Four]

Because of the atmo restrictions, "industrial" must mean something more than what we currently have on real world earth, because we would not qualify.

It must be a significant portion of the world devoted to industry, much like a water world is almost all water, and a desert world is all desert.

I haven't read the trade rules in a long time, and I was thinking "industrial" just meant that the world was capable of exporting finished goods on a large basis. Obviously, it's much more than that.

I wonder if that is Imperial Law--that only X% of a world can be devoted to industry on a large scale.

Is this our first environmental rule? No world-sized industry unless on a vacuum or tainted atmo world?

 

[whulorigan]

Because of the atmo restrictions, "industrial" must mean something more than what we currently have on real world earth, because we would not qualify.

It must be a significant portion of the world devoted to industry, much like a water world is almost all water, and a desert world is all desert.

I haven't read the trade rules in a long time, and I was thinking "industrial" just meant that the world was capable of exporting finished goods on a large basis. Obviously, it's much more than that.

Exactly. Rhylanor is not classified as Industrial, but it most certainly has significant industrial infrastructure. It is just that Rhylanor is not devoted to Industry. It exports some industrial items, but not to a significant enough of an extent that it has a major surplus or is a major supplier to the subsector and beyond.

 

[Keklas Rekobah]

Rhylanor could be one of those places where industries import a lot of generic components that might be odd, but certainly not hazardous (“You want how many titanium-alloy salad bowls with the ceramic inner lining?”), and then assembles them into value-added items for resale elsewhere (“These plasguns have a reaction chamber composed of a titanium outer shell and a ceramic inner lining. They can be separated into two halves for easy service...”).

For instance, we all know what can be done with the right proportions of aluminum, magnesium, and iron-oxide, none of which would necessarily be illegal on an open market.

 

[Supplement Four]

Exactly. Rhylanor is not classified as Industrial, but it most certainly has significant industrial infrastructure. It is just that Rhylanor is not devoted to Industry. It exports some industrial items, but not to a significant enough of an extent that it has a major surplus or is a major supplier to the subsector and beyond.

Don't let Mike hear you say that! It's the source of his high tech Aramis subsector! :rofl:



It's confusing at first, but I think the game reads like this:

Industrial - A significant portion of the world's surface is devoted to industry. Imperial Law stipulates no or tainted atmos only.

Non-Industrial - Population of 10 million or less cannot support major industry, even on it's own world. That's the size of one major city.

(No Classification) - Can have normal industry and exports, but the world is not dominated by industry. This is the default for most worlds with population at 100 Million or more.