Reading a subsector - Regina

[mike wightman]

Don't let Mike hear you say that! It's the source of his high tech Aramis subsector! :rofl:

Lol, no it's no the only source. Trin and Mora are the true powerhouses of the Marches, TL15 high population industrial worlds. Rhylanor and Glisten are high population TL15 worlds, but they will not have anywhere near the trade in manufactured goods and spare parts as the first two.
And lets not forget according to your paradigm every IN warship and civilian large transport and liner in the entire Spinward Marches will have to annually make the trip to one of those 4 worlds...

I think your interpretation of the trade codes is onto something.

 

[Supplement Four]

And lets not forget according to your paradigm every IN warship and civilian large transport and liner in the entire Spinward Marches will have to annually make the trip to one of those 4 worlds...

Should be doable. The US only has one shipyard for the Atlantic Fleet in Portsmouth (Norfolk), one for the Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor. Nuclear subs are built at Kittery. And, the Coast Guard has one at Baltimore.

That's four for the entire US Navy and Coast Guard.

I can definitely see 4 worlds serving the IN ship needs for the Spinward Marches.

Notice how not all US Naval Bases are capable of building US Navy vessels.

You can add in some civilian shipyards, with which the Navy contacts to build vessels, and that will add a few more locations, but not a lot. Not all, but many of the civilian shipbuilding ports are for smaller vessels.

The Imperial System in the Spinward Marches, as I see it, reflects this.

 

[Supplement Four]

And lets not forget according to your paradigm every IN warship and civilian large transport and liner in the entire Spinward Marches will have to annually make the trip to one of those 4 worlds...

I didn't say that. It is clear the IN bases provide maintenance on TL 15 vessels. Construction and major overhauls have to be done at one of those four worlds.

Just like a Naval Base in Greece can provide support and maintenance for the US Naval vessels that dock there, but actual construction and overhaul is done at one of the two shipbuilding bases in the US.

 

[Garnfellow]

Groton doesn't build nuclear submarines?

 

[GypsyComet]

Non-Industrial - Population of 10 million or less cannot support major industry, even on it's own world. That's the size of one major city.

Pop 6- would properly be "less than 10 million", since once a world crosses that line it becomes Pop 7.

Note also that later adjustments changed Ni to Pop 4-6, with Lo taking over completely at Pop 1-3 instead of stacking.

 

[Supplement Four]

Groton doesn't build nuclear submarines?

I got the info from a web site. Maybe it was wrong. Is that the General Dynamics (civilian) shipyard?

 

[Garnfellow]

I got the info from a web site. Maybe it was wrong. Is that the General Dynamics (civilian) shipyard?

Yeah, the Electric Boat yard. That said, like all defense contracting (or manufacturing, for that matter) the answer is probably "it's complicated." You have components built in one congressional district and then shipped to another district, so on and so forth. Everybody can potentially claim the ship was built "there."

 

[pendragonman]

I got the info from a web site. Maybe it was wrong. Is that the General Dynamics (civilian) shipyard?

Then there is the (now) civilian Philadelphia Yard where air craft carriers are assembled.

Assembled, meaning components are shipped in from elsewhere.

 

[Supplement Four]

Then there is the (now) civilian Philadelphia Yard where air craft carriers are assembled.

Assembled, meaning components are shipped in from elsewhere.

I saw a web site where the Navy did a study and found it was less expensive to use civilian contractors than it is to maintain several Naval Shipyards.

The IN Base write ups say something similar--about contracting out to the local Starport if it is sufficient (and I didn't read "sufficient" to mean TL 15, but Class A or B as needed).

 

[aramis]

I saw a web site where the Navy did a study and found it was less expensive to use civilian contractors than it is to maintain several Naval Shipyards.

The IN Base write ups say something similar--about contracting out to the local Starport if it is sufficient (and I didn't read "sufficient" to mean TL 15, but Class A or B as needed).

And yet, the USN maintains several yards. Pearl, Alameda, Philly, Bethesda, Diego Garcia.

There are many reasons to keep military shipyards - price is not one, never has been.

Immediate access with military priorities intact is the big one. A civil yard is subject to civil needs preempting Military needs.

Secrecy for secret projects is another.

 

[Supplement Four]

And yet, the USN maintains several yards. Pearl, Alameda, Philly, Bethesda, Diego Garcia.

According the link below, those are not actual shipyards or they are civilian shipyards, though they may be Naval bases.

There are many reasons to keep military shipyards - price is not one, never has been.

You seem to be dead wrong, here, according to the link.

http://www.shipbuildinghistory.com/shipyards/public.htm

 

[pendragonman]

Philly WAS a naval yard, and has been shifted to civilian. Still builds carriers.

Don't know about the others.

 

[aramis]

All the ones I've cited are naval repair yards in current service. All of which have, at times, been used as original construction yards at various points.

Pearl built auxiliaries, and refit a half-dozen battleships in 1942.

Pearl, Norfolk, Porttsmouth, and Puget Sound are the four major construction yards, now mostly repair.
Official data on Diego Garcia is all classified, but it's known to be a repair yard.

All the sites I've mentioned have US Naval repair facilities.
Bethesda Naval Support Activity is part of the Washington Naval Yard. Having seen photos of myself at Walter-Reed (I have no personal memory of it), I've been to NASB Bethesda.

I forgot they closed Alameda in 1997. It was a light repair yard capable of a few specific intermediate tasks.

Most of the navy's yards are not classed as shipbuilders, but as light repair facilities - to get "shipyard" - and the four big ones do - it has to be at least intermediate repair and maintenance - which means a full drydock and crane for multiple slips. And there are, by a variety of sources, 4 major yards still active.

NSF Diego Garcia is mostly noted for aviation, but it's also a light repair and coaling station. They have wet-dock and small boat drydocks according to a number of sources, including former sailors assigned there. the sheltered lagoon makes it an ideal wet-repair location. That there is no civilian occupation other that contract workers and a rare few dependents...



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_shipbuilders_and_shipyards
https://shipbuilders.org/us-navy-shipbuilding
http://www.dcfpnavymil.org/Library/shpyrd/shpyrds.htm
http://www.public.navy.mil/subfor/underseawarfaremagazine/Issues/PDF/USW_Fall_2013.pdf
https://cnic.navy.mil/regions/ndw/installations/nsa_washington.html
https://www.cnic.navy.mil/regions/ndw/installations/nsa_bethesda.html
https://www.cnic.navy.mil/regions/cnrj/installations/nsf_diego_garcia/

 

[Supplement Four]

Regardless of who is correct on the US Naval shipyards, the point is still valid: that the description of the IN bases in Library Data, Book 5, and elsewhere seem to mimic the US Naval yards of today.

Whether that was by design or not, I don't know. I haven't researched US Naval Shipyards in the 70's.

Now, Mike reads this differently than I do, but what I see is this: Naval Bases operate at the TL of the local world or the Starport (given DGP's minimums), whichever is higher, and if the Starport is Class A or B, the base will most likely contract out to civilian builders.

Naval bases can supply, maintain, and presumably perform minor repairs on TL 15 vessels, though, regardless of the local TL, due to Naval imports and upgrades.

TL 15 IN vessels are built at TL 15 Class A starports on TL 15 worlds. Items like Battledress and FGMPs can be, not not necessarily are, imported TL 15 items brought to the base via naval vessels.

It's a big universe, and there's lots of space out there. Worlds are somewhat isolated as interstellar travel is not easy. Therefore, there's a lot of variance, and I'm speaking generally here. Any specific Naval Base will have its own quirky aspects to it, taking it outside of the norm.

 

[Adam Dray]

But...
Junidy is also an Amber Zone. Does that effect it's exports? Probably.

Sorry about that. I'll get my Dandies under control eventually...

 

[Adam Dray]

I can definitely see 4 worlds serving the IN ship needs for the Spinward Marches.

Notice how not all US Naval Bases are capable of building US Navy vessels.

The main difference between the US and the Spinward Marches is that the US Navy can reach any point in the world in under three weeks (using the 30-knot speed of the Gerald R. Ford as a measure).

 

[Condottiere]

They have warp drive.

In the days of the British Empire, it was pretty much a hop, skip and a jump across stretches of water.