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Worthless worlds as important places

Everyone HATES the climate around Houston and Galveston. For that matter, everyone hates the summers in San Antonio! I just want to see some rain. Not for me, I have seen it once, but for the kids... :D
Not to mention (Houston, Alaska, Sahara, polluted cities like 1800s London or current China/India) that is all still environments that you go outside in. For environments where you don’t go outside (a suit is still inside)… the issue is how comfy technology and money can make it (since you will be using technology and money)
 
Not to mention (Houston, Alaska, Sahara, polluted cities like 1800s London or current China/India) that is all still environments that you go outside in. For environments where you don’t go outside (a suit is still inside)… the issue is how comfy technology and money can make it (since you will be using technology and money)
Parts of Alaska are not safe without significant thermal wear for up to 4 months... when not inside.
 
Parts of Alaska are not safe without significant thermal wear for up to 4 months... when not inside.
But you can breathe the air and drink the water.

Basically anywhere on earth (other than underwater) you can rough it at TL1 and reasonable training. TL 5-7 just reduces the training and makes it more comfortable.

When TL 5-9 is literally minimum required for survival, the “comfort” factor changes… the outside environment becomes far less relevant.
 
But you can breathe the air and drink the water.
What water? The rivers don't flow, there's almost no snow, much of what snow there is is polluted, and it's usually under a foot at peak. If one doesn't have an external way to melt the snow, ingesting that supercold snow takes upwards 2× the calories it allows metabolizing to melt.

Plus, despite the summer humidity and inflow of creeks galore... Fairbanks is in the middle of a subarctic desert. There have been years where the winter snow in fairbanks never crossed 2" at any given time, and was brown with exhaust fumes (the most common source of condensation nuclei.) plus plows and the various salts used to clear the roads (not all of it is NaCl) make any near the roads toxic.

If one's forced in that cold, without a muffler, frostbite of the nose gets common; without goggles, one's eyes can be stuck open, (which, by the way, HURTS LIKE «BLEEP«ING HELL,) and you can get frostbite on the exposed face. Frost nip at -30° can occur in still air within 15 minutes. Once the nose is frostbitten, it no longer prewarms the air; at that point, frostbite in the lungs.

For all intents, it's best to treat Fairbanks winters as having a severe taint... If you have to work outside at -40°F, you really should have a muffler, ski goggles, insulated overtrousers, an insulated coat with hood, a knit cap, and snow boots with ice cleats. The record in downtown fairbanks was -55°F, 1989. I went there that year. My eyelids stopped working within 1 minute of exiting the car; my ability to focus was lost just before the door of the church, two minutes or so later. It took a minute for things to melt, once I was in the 65°F church. I was in a USAF heavy parka, USAF insulated trousers, a pair of Sorels rated for -40°F, USAF Nomex Flight Gloves, and US Army snow mittens over them. And a tuke, army issue, and tube scarf, USAF issue. No goggles, no cleats. I wish I had thought to bring both. (Of those, the coat and snowpants were actual issue, via CAP; the rest bought at either DRMO or the Elmendorf AFB or Fort Richardson Military Clothing Sales - and all authorized for off-duty wear.) Oh, and even with a muffler... breath in through the mouth, out through the nose - the mouth has more surface area and is less readily damaged than the nose.

Barrow is even worse. Sure, it has public water and sewere... for a part of town. The temp is so cold, they use tunnels for the utilities and trash. And, for those not on the water & sewer lines, nightsoil buckets. Number of times per week by number of residents. Open the hatch, lower the bucket, close the hatch. In the morning, empty bucket, same size, on the line, pull it up. It's possible (but not usually allowed) to get from house to house that way.

The nightsoil bucket does go to the water treatment plant, in the buckets.

Now, there is plenty of water by barrow... but it's not drinkable, either... it's the Arctic Ocean. Barrow does get more precip than Fairbanks... but it runs right off into the ocean as it melts.

People who have not experienced that kind of supercold, super dry, super dark weather have limited grasp of just how much like an uninhabitable wasteland it really is.

And yes, Fairbanks is surrounded by a lot of seasonal wetlands - it's the bottom of a 200+ mile diameter bowl...that all the 1-4 inches accumulated is going to flow down into as it melts in the spring... May or June, depending upon the year... This year, the buoy at Nenana finally moved May 8th, 1601 hours Z-9. (there's a pool as a fundraiser for Nenana, city of, this year, $222101 across 10 winners (so each of then got $22210.10)... But that whole bowl is a desert.

And in summer? Fairbanks hits the upper 90's in both °F and relative humidity... and enough mosquitoes to impede driving. Plus gnats, horseflies, some wonderfully agressive wasps, big bumblebees, and whitesocks (biting insects, Simuliidae family). So, hazardous but livable. But unpleasant.
 
What water? The rivers don't flow, there's almost no snow, much of what snow there is is polluted, and it's usually under a foot at peak. If one doesn't have an external way to melt the snow, ingesting that supercold snow takes upwards 2× the calories it allows metabolizing to melt.

Plus, despite the summer humidity and inflow of creeks galore... Fairbanks is in the middle of a subarctic desert. There have been years where the winter snow in fairbanks never crossed 2" at any given time, and was brown with exhaust fumes (the most common source of condensation nuclei.) plus plows and the various salts used to clear the roads (not all of it is NaCl) make any near the roads toxic.

If one's forced in that cold, without a muffler, frostbite of the nose gets common; without goggles, one's eyes can be stuck open, (which, by the way, HURTS LIKE «BLEEP«ING HELL,) and you can get frostbite on the exposed face. Frost nip at -30° can occur in still air within 15 minutes. Once the nose is frostbitten, it no longer prewarms the air; at that point, frostbite in the lungs.

For all intents, it's best to treat Fairbanks winters as having a severe taint... If you have to work outside at -40°F, you really should have a muffler, ski goggles, insulated overtrousers, an insulated coat with hood, a knit cap, and snow boots with ice cleats. The record in downtown fairbanks was -55°F, 1989. I went there that year. My eyelids stopped working within 1 minute of exiting the car; my ability to focus was lost just before the door of the church, two minutes or so later. It took a minute for things to melt, once I was in the 65°F church. I was in a USAF heavy parka, USAF insulated trousers, a pair of Sorels rated for -40°F, USAF Nomex Flight Gloves, and US Army snow mittens over them. And a tuke, army issue, and tube scarf, USAF issue. No goggles, no cleats. I wish I had thought to bring both. (Of those, the coat and snowpants were actual issue, via CAP; the rest bought at either DRMO or the Elmendorf AFB or Fort Richardson Military Clothing Sales - and all authorized for off-duty wear.) Oh, and even with a muffler... breath in through the mouth, out through the nose - the mouth has more surface area and is less readily damaged than the nose.

Barrow is even worse. Sure, it has public water and sewere... for a part of town. The temp is so cold, they use tunnels for the utilities and trash. And, for those not on the water & sewer lines, nightsoil buckets. Number of times per week by number of residents. Open the hatch, lower the bucket, close the hatch. In the morning, empty bucket, same size, on the line, pull it up. It's possible (but not usually allowed) to get from house to house that way.

The nightsoil bucket does go to the water treatment plant, in the buckets.

Now, there is plenty of water by barrow... but it's not drinkable, either... it's the Arctic Ocean. Barrow does get more precip than Fairbanks... but it runs right off into the ocean as it melts.

People who have not experienced that kind of supercold, super dry, super dark weather have limited grasp of just how much like an uninhabitable wasteland it really is.

And yes, Fairbanks is surrounded by a lot of seasonal wetlands - it's the bottom of a 200+ mile diameter bowl...that all the 1-4 inches accumulated is going to flow down into as it melts in the spring... May or June, depending upon the year... This year, the buoy at Nenana finally moved May 8th, 1601 hours Z-9. (there's a pool as a fundraiser for Nenana, city of, this year, $222101 across 10 winners (so each of then got $22210.10)... But that whole bowl is a desert.

And in summer? Fairbanks hits the upper 90's in both °F and relative humidity... and enough mosquitoes to impede driving. Plus gnats, horseflies, some wonderfully agressive wasps, big bumblebees, and whitesocks (biting insects, Simuliidae family). So, hazardous but livable. But unpleasant.
Sounds like a great place to live. :)
 
What water? The rivers don't flow, there's almost no snow, much of what snow there is is polluted, and it's usually under a foot at peak. If one doesn't have an external way to melt the snow, ingesting that supercold snow takes upwards 2× the calories it allows metabolizing to melt.

Plus, despite the summer humidity and inflow of creeks galore... Fairbanks is in the middle of a subarctic desert. There have been years where the winter snow in fairbanks never crossed 2" at any given time, and was brown with exhaust fumes (the most common source of condensation nuclei.) plus plows and the various salts used to clear the roads (not all of it is NaCl) make any near the roads toxic.

If one's forced in that cold, without a muffler, frostbite of the nose gets common; without goggles, one's eyes can be stuck open, (which, by the way, HURTS LIKE «BLEEP«ING HELL,) and you can get frostbite on the exposed face. Frost nip at -30° can occur in still air within 15 minutes. Once the nose is frostbitten, it no longer prewarms the air; at that point, frostbite in the lungs.

For all intents, it's best to treat Fairbanks winters as having a severe taint... If you have to work outside at -40°F, you really should have a muffler, ski goggles, insulated overtrousers, an insulated coat with hood, a knit cap, and snow boots with ice cleats. The record in downtown fairbanks was -55°F, 1989. I went there that year. My eyelids stopped working within 1 minute of exiting the car; my ability to focus was lost just before the door of the church, two minutes or so later. It took a minute for things to melt, once I was in the 65°F church. I was in a USAF heavy parka, USAF insulated trousers, a pair of Sorels rated for -40°F, USAF Nomex Flight Gloves, and US Army snow mittens over them. And a tuke, army issue, and tube scarf, USAF issue. No goggles, no cleats. I wish I had thought to bring both. (Of those, the coat and snowpants were actual issue, via CAP; the rest bought at either DRMO or the Elmendorf AFB or Fort Richardson Military Clothing Sales - and all authorized for off-duty wear.) Oh, and even with a muffler... breath in through the mouth, out through the nose - the mouth has more surface area and is less readily damaged than the nose.

Barrow is even worse. Sure, it has public water and sewere... for a part of town. The temp is so cold, they use tunnels for the utilities and trash. And, for those not on the water & sewer lines, nightsoil buckets. Number of times per week by number of residents. Open the hatch, lower the bucket, close the hatch. In the morning, empty bucket, same size, on the line, pull it up. It's possible (but not usually allowed) to get from house to house that way.

The nightsoil bucket does go to the water treatment plant, in the buckets.

Now, there is plenty of water by barrow... but it's not drinkable, either... it's the Arctic Ocean. Barrow does get more precip than Fairbanks... but it runs right off into the ocean as it melts.

People who have not experienced that kind of supercold, super dry, super dark weather have limited grasp of just how much like an uninhabitable wasteland it really is.

And yes, Fairbanks is surrounded by a lot of seasonal wetlands - it's the bottom of a 200+ mile diameter bowl...that all the 1-4 inches accumulated is going to flow down into as it melts in the spring... May or June, depending upon the year... This year, the buoy at Nenana finally moved May 8th, 1601 hours Z-9. (there's a pool as a fundraiser for Nenana, city of, this year, $222101 across 10 winners (so each of then got $22210.10)... But that whole bowl is a desert.

And in summer? Fairbanks hits the upper 90's in both °F and relative humidity... and enough mosquitoes to impede driving. Plus gnats, horseflies, some wonderfully agressive wasps, big bumblebees, and whitesocks (biting insects, Simuliidae family). So, hazardous but livable. But unpleasant.
The point was it’s survivable at TL0/1 .wheras worlds with A+, 1- atm aren’t survivable without TL5+ equipment every minute of every hour of every day for the whole year.
 
I remember describing to my Brother in Law (Born in Hawaii, lives in California) about the differences between -40 and -65°F, his reaction was like it was insane. You don't want any skin exposed below -20, and once your arms begin to physically hurt, you have to get inside.
 
Sounds like a great place to live. :)
Unironically?

If you like "the great outdoors" (either for hunting and fishing, or just to be away from everyone else) it's tough but amazing. If I hadn't married a normal woman, and had family/friends/committments elsewhere, I would consider going back. I'm a little old for it now, but I had a good time up there in '95-'98.
 
Unironically?

If you like "the great outdoors" (either for hunting and fishing, or just to be away from everyone else) it's tough but amazing. If I hadn't married a normal woman, and had family/friends/committments elsewhere, I would consider going back. I'm a little old for it now, but I had a good time up there in '95-'98.
I too am well past the age of going the hard country route. Between my age and my growing arthritis, I suspect I would not fare well now. :)
 
Anyone have any explaination?
1. Insufficient Information: Looking at the UWP and the trade codes doesn't tell a planet or a system's whole story. This is where fleshing out the details becomes important. Create the why.

2. Capitals Move: Just because a system is the subsector capital now doesn't mean things were always thus. IMTU, families are associated with worlds and systems and the dukedom moves to them, not the other way 'round*.
*Except when they do. The Imperium's complex like that.

3. Follow the Money: Washington DC is built in a swamp where in the days pre-AC - that's "air conditioning" - politicos and bureaucrats fled the city for more temperate, healthier environs each summer. So why there? Probably nothing at all to do with the fact that George Washington himself owned property that was incorporated within the District of Columbia from which he stood to make a fair sackful of shekels . . .
 
How did the forebears of the native americans cross over from asia if they couldn't survive with their technology?
Stayed south of the Brooks Range (the tallest mountains in N. America). Fairbanks was, during the ice stage of the current¹ ice age, under half a mile or more of ice.

Oh, and it's also on a large but very low grade uranium deposit.

Keep in mind: Fairbanks is a couple hundred miles north of Anchorage, and was summer hunting lands pre-white-folk. It wasn't inhabited year round by humans in winter until the Russians.

Anchorage and the Aleutian Islands were warmed by the Pacific Ocean's warm current, and the sea level was lower; most of the anchorage bowl, however, was the terminus of a family of glaciers... many of which have disappeared completely since 1990. The city sits atop the numerous terminal moraine deposits, at the bottom of the Anchorage Bowl, and is largely temperate rainforest terrain.

-=-=-=-=-
¹: we're said to be in the interglacial warm, but we appear to be breaking that cycle with CO₂ & CH₄ ... if we have, expect a 5-10°C mean temp rise...
 
Ah! That's how they survived and conquered the invading Psychlos!

(Nickle to anyone that gets that reference!)
Terl vs. Johnny Goodboy Tyler.

Battlefield Earth, by L. Ron Hubbard.

I read the book 15+ times (4 times in HS), but never watched the movie as I heard it sucked really bad (in comparison?). If they did a 3 or 4 part remake, I might watch it. The book is 800+ pages and could easily do 3 or 4 movies. A television mini-series would be really cool too.

@wartung , you can keep the Nickle, I would only be able to frame it and hang it on the wall.
 
:)

Wow! 15+ times. I liked the book, but not that much lol. I will say that it's the only book that I walked right into a pole reading, clunking my head.

It was a good yarn.

I do love this summary that I made of the story:
Spoiler:

Man becomes Lord King God of the Universe because he never hauled water.
 
I really like the story! It covered many genera's in one story and flowed very well.

I'm the kind of bookwyrm that'll read a story more than once, the better it is, the more often I'll read it. It's gotten harder over the years because I'm running out of time and more books are being written.
 
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