Real Life Tramp Freighters
- Thread starter pzmcgwire
- Start date
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
HAVE CHARTER, WILL TRAVEL
WIFI AUDIE THOR
VINCENNES
WIFI AUDIE THOR
VINCENNES
HanleyTucks
SOC-11
Of course! But then... think of how much time naval craft spend in maintenance and how expensive all that is... Per this, it varies by how much they're deployed, but aircraft carriers spend about a quarter of their time in maintenance.
Most CT tramp traders aren't going to be that big - but they've got at least as complex systems. And I don't know about you, but if all I had between me and the vacuum of space was a few inches of metal, pipes and wires, I'd want it to be in good repair.
So - realistic craft are going to spend a lot of time in maintenance. If you don't want that, then the time and cost are going to come up somewhere else. In CT, ships require 2 weeks' maintenance in every 52, and we expect a lifetime of at least 40 years (since that's how long the mortgages go for).
Imagine your DoD goes to a shipbuilder and says, "You know, we'd like a nuclear-powered cruiser that can go for 40 years of almost-constant operations with just 2 weeks' maintenance a year." How much do you think that ship would cost?
CT starships are a bargain!
BackworldTraveller
SOC-13
So what are those crews doing in those weeks in jump-space? You have Engineers who have 7-man-days each for maintenance. The steward is not just serving coffee - life support filter changes fall to him. Your gunners are making sure that the gunnery systems are AOK. The bridge crew are maintaining the electronics. These ships thus spend 28 weeks a year in maintenance, not 2.
I can see some maintenance but not the full sweep of things. Kinda hard to replace part on a running jump drive (or not - there is a fun thread about whether the jump drive does anything once in jump space), and I would not recommend doing any hull work in jump space (and depending on the version / jump tech not even possible). And unless they carry (or again, based on version, have their own maker) lots of spare parts, there is not a lot they can do.
There is another discussion about carrying spare parts/supplies, and some players keep stash on board, others not. Basic stuff like your aforementioned filters and such I can see. Pulling out a maneuver engine to work on the expellor manifold sub-systems (and be certain to keep port & starboard aligned!) seems suicidal in jump space as you can only get to that outside the ship.
The more I read these, the more I appreciate a lot of the classic Traveller assumptions though I chafed at them long ago: they really do seem to hold up even after 40+ years. Have to agree with HanleyTucks: those ships are a bargain! And hey, if I had bought a ship then it would now be paid off!
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Macro, interstellar transport is extremely cheap.
Micro, it's not like you could jump on your horse and just trot to the next village.
Micro, it's not like you could jump on your horse and just trot to the next village.
BackworldTraveller
SOC-13
Much more like having to catch the horse, add tack, hitch to cart, load cart head to village, unload cart, unhitch horse, remove tack, groom, feed and lead to appropriate field. Drat - Heading home is...
...And that is why we invented the automobile!
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Riding horse listed at twelve hundred credite imperiale.
And, before that, livery stables.
BackworldTraveller
SOC-13
Village with Livery Stable!
HanleyTucks
SOC-11
What does a naval crew do when they're at sea?
28 weeks out of 52 in Jump is a bit ambitious. That assumes that you Jump in pretty close to a destination world, that there's a cargo available you're willing and able to take in the first week of trying for one, that you can refuel on that world, and that you Jump out once you're at 100.001 diameters from it - and the crew never do anything outside the ship apart from that week looking for a cargo.
This seems unlikely. If it were all that efficient and simple then the route would be well-served by large companies with dozens of ships, and there wouldn't be much work for a tramp freighter. In play I usually find it's about one Jump a month unless they're running from or chasing someone.
It's just tricky for a tramp freighter to turn a profit. That's why they're tempted by that clueless kid and dodgy old bloke who say they want to Avoid Any Imperial Entanglements. A sensible person would say no. An adventurer say yes! Why? He needs the cash!
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Rules as written.
One week in jump space followed by one week during which you maneuver to world, unload, look for passengers and cargo, have adventure to pay for the bit the referee broke in the last game, maneuver to 100D limit and then jump.
One week in jump space followed by one week during which you maneuver to world, unload, look for passengers and cargo, have adventure to pay for the bit the referee broke in the last game, maneuver to 100D limit and then jump.
They watch the gauges, they clean, they check for things that may be broken, they fix the things that are broken, they paint, they train, they drill, they study for their next certification or upgrade.
While there can certainly be, perhaps, "more" down time while in jump vs in normal space, it doesn't mean there's nothing to do.
Consider the flight attendants on an aircraft. Busy busy busy during take off, then the initial food service, then the cleaning run. On longer flights they may very well have some down time back in the galley, but on call for anyone who needs anything.
At a minimum some of the crews work may simply verifying what the other crew member did. Check their work, affirm their readings, a second eye on things.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Depending on the edition, most ship systems will be powered down.
Since warships have to assume a possibly hot reception on their coming out party, they'd probably take the time to check, maintain, and if necessary repair, combat related equipment.
Crew might be encouraged to take correspondence courses, to further their chosen career path.
With commercial shipping, it could be a trade off between a hectic schedule in port, and more downtime in transition; for the more cash strapped operations, the slack could be taken up by delayed routine maintenance.
Since warships have to assume a possibly hot reception on their coming out party, they'd probably take the time to check, maintain, and if necessary repair, combat related equipment.
Crew might be encouraged to take correspondence courses, to further their chosen career path.
With commercial shipping, it could be a trade off between a hectic schedule in port, and more downtime in transition; for the more cash strapped operations, the slack could be taken up by delayed routine maintenance.
HanleyTucks
SOC-11
Exactly. They're busy. Their work is not in place of the months of the full maintenance every year or two.
So again: if a modern naval ship had to be constructed so that it could be at sea for 50 of the 52 weeks in a year, how much more would it cost?
CT ships are a bargain, really.
Straybow
SOC-14 1K
There is a strong implication that the Engineering section is inaccessible under full operation due to heat and radiation. That's why unused Engr space can't be used for cargo.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I am glad you posted that, it is something that has bugged me for years.
LBB2 requires you to define a main compartment and an engineering compartment, the latter contains the drives and nothing else - apart from waste space.
The size of these compartments is fixed during construction and can not be later altered.
This to me suggested that the drive compartment was dangerous.
Then the deck plans started to be released. Where are the bulkheads separating the main compartment and the engineering compartment? I looked closely and yup, there are the bulkheads. What surprised me were the walkways in the drive compartment and the access hatches which show the drives to be fully accessible.
LBB2 requires you to define a main compartment and an engineering compartment, the latter contains the drives and nothing else - apart from waste space.
The size of these compartments is fixed during construction and can not be later altered.
This to me suggested that the drive compartment was dangerous.
Then the deck plans started to be released. Where are the bulkheads separating the main compartment and the engineering compartment? I looked closely and yup, there are the bulkheads. What surprised me were the walkways in the drive compartment and the access hatches which show the drives to be fully accessible.
But that doesn't mean they're meant to be accessed while underway. Of course the equipment must be accessible at some point.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
So maybe the extra hydrogen is to flush out engineering and decontaminate it?
I figured that the drive bay included structural reinforcements and power conduits and whatnot that were integral to the hull structure.
You can't use free space in the drive bay for cargo because you can't get it in through the personnel hatches specified on most deck plans. You'd have to remove the drives out the back, first. Or cut through the hull. (And what if you needed to get to the drives to fix them, with cargo in the way?)
Doesn't make good living quarters, there's no good way to fit a turret there, bridge components might not like being next to the drives, and putting liquid hydrogen tanks in there is probably not a bright idea. So it goes to waste.