Redefining the TU

[clementk]

Originally posted by TheEngineer:
Hi folks !

Perhaps I did not understand the problem
But if somebody misses a frontier it should be a minor problem to choose a Traveller setting with a bit more "frontier" feeling, e.g. Mileu 0, MT or TNE ?

A problem for me is those are all set in the same universe and all well after the worlds in question have been initially explored and colonized at some time. The worlds are all detailed in some manner, if nothing else laid out on a map. Even Gateway has this since every world has a UWP. Sure in game the character may not know world X has an UWP Y but even in M:0 it more than likely had already been discovered.

The OTU as is really isn’t set up IMO for "There Be Dragons Here" on the map and all the initial exploring was a long long time ago. Don’t get me wrong I like the feel of a civilization propped up on earlier empires*, but I also like the opposite.

IIRC some of the CT alien modules had a simple method for finding new worlds.

Casey

* Clark Ashton Smith’s Zothique, Jack Vance’s Dying Earth, Gene Wolfe’s Book of the New Sun, and M.A.R. Barker’s Tekumel among others are favorites

 

[robject]

Casey said it well.

It's not a dislike for the OTU, nor the CT milieu; on the contrary, it's nearly the opposite: a wish to discover what the Proto-Classic 1100-era Traveller setting might have been like, if you will. The aborted TU that was hinted at in Research Station Gamma.

 

[mike wightman]

Yeh,
give me the "dark" Imperium which locks up noble senators in decaying prison hulks and tortures them; sub-sector governments that has people beaten up for asking questions; illegal research stations conducting banned experiments; an Emperor who mainains his own private worlds as a source for his anagathics; corporations that kidnap people to work as slaves in asteroid belts.

 

[Morte]

Originally posted by Casey:

The OTU as is really isn’t set up IMO for "There Be Dragons Here" on the map and all the initial exploring was a long long time ago. Don’t get me wrong I like the feel of a civilization propped up on earlier empires*, but I also like the opposite.

The easiest (though not necessarily quickest) answer might be "wait for GT Interstellar Wars"

 

[mike wightman]

Emm, Adventure 4 was an exploration into uncharted space only one subsector from the Spinward Marches.

Several of the Alien modules included rules for exploring the unknown frontiers.

Fast forward to 1248 and you don't know what you'll find beyond the safe areas

 

[Malenfant]

I think there's a simple solution: Toss the Atlas of the Imperium and ignore the online GENII UWPs.

There. Now the only thing that's been detailed are the Solomani Rim and the Spinward Marches, and everywhere else is "Here Be Dragons"

 

[robject]

There. Just when I thought we had all our options on the table, Mal gives us yet another one. How're we doing so far?

And frankly, that's the kind of thing I'm aiming at. Butcher as much as needed, except for two sectors and a handful of other 'canon' worlds.

 

[mike wightman]

Mal, don't forget the Gateway Domain

Oh, and Massilia, Diaspora, and the Hinterworlds (all by GDW for MT), not to mention the parts of the Old Expanses detailed in TNE.

As to the sentiment behind the post, I agree:

Toss the Atlas of the Imperium and ignore the online GENII UWPs

The more detailed the Imperium became the more set in stone the background. AotI has never been one of my favourite supplements, and I ignore it completely IMTU.

I preferred the loose background of the early days, as the Imperium became more detailed and re-invented itself MTU diverged further and further, not that it's much of a problem since I just fit in whatever I like and ignore the rest.

 

[RainOfSteel]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Yeh,
give me the "dark" Imperium which locks up noble senators in decaying prison hulks and tortures them; sub-sector governments that has people beaten up for asking questions; illegal research stations conducting banned experiments; an Emperor who mainains his own private worlds as a source for his anagathics; corporations that kidnap people to work as slaves in asteroid belts.

I always felt this sort of stuff did happen in the Imperium, but not everywhere.

If such did happen everwhere, then there would be no room for General Adventure, only for Rebels Against the Empire.

 

[mike wightman]

There were terrorist/rebel/freedom fighter plotlines running in TAS articles and rumours in adventures during the early years.

Then all of a sudden the Imperium becomes the good guys, then the Zhodani become the good guys, at least the Solomani stay true to form...

 

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Mal, don't forget the Gateway Domain

Looks like I did.

I was thinking more from a CT perspective.

Oh, and Massilia, Diaspora, and the Hinterworlds (all by GDW for MT), not to mention the parts of the Old Expanses detailed in TNE.

And them too

As to the sentiment behind the post, I agree.

Yeah. The point is that only some of the sectors have been defined in any real, detailed form. The rest is just a list of random UWPs that you can completely ignore. (well, you can completely ignore anything in the other books too, for that matter )

 

[mike wightman]

And it depends on what you mean by general adventure.
There is still room for the merchant campaign, the mercenary campaign, the occasional odd job campaign, the corporate espionage campaign, the colonist campaign...

I don't quite see why everyone would be a rebel against the darker version of the Imperium

 

[Malenfant]

Wouldn't you be better off just playing Star Wars if you wanted a "Dark Empire" game?

 

[RainOfSteel]

Well, not if they wanted an uncopyrighted Dark Empire.

 

[RainOfSteel]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
There were terrorist/rebel/freedom fighter plotlines running in TAS articles and rumours in adventures during the early years.

Then all of a sudden the Imperium becomes the good guys, then the Zhodani become the good guys, at least the Solomani stay true to form...

Oh, but don't you know, they were always just misunderstood.

 

[robject]

For your amusement, here's a PDF of four sectors unceremoniously collandered into one sector: Corridor, Vland, Gushemege, and Dagudashaag. Each one has been pared down to about one-fourth of its original size, and fit into a quadrant.

This is fun.

http://home.comcast.net/~starcharts/smallimperium/VlandSmall.PDF

 

[mike wightman]

Not a - how did you put it - snowballs chance on Venus

I didn't picture the early Imperium setting as malevolent as the Star Wars Empire, more of a stagnant, monolithic, remote polity that maintained the peace through a combination of turning a blind eye to local (subsector) government oppression, and heavy handed application of overwhelming force (in the days when a platoon of TL15 Battledressed troops with a Kinunir for fire support could make a difference )

Read Adventures 1 and 2 again, the picture they paint of the imperium is as slightly oppresive to those with a dissenting voice. It was only later that those dissenters became real terrorists and hence the Imperium could be cast in a more positive light.

 

[RainOfSteel]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
And it depends on what you mean by general adventure.
There is still room for the merchant campaign, the mercenary campaign, the occasional odd job campaign, the corporate espionage campaign, the colonist campaign...

I don't quite see why everyone would be a rebel against the darker version of the Imperium

Oh! I guess it depends on what your vision of "Dark Empire" is.

I thought you meant a universe with the same stranglehold on inviduality and thought that was rampant in Star Wars (everwhere but on far-away worlds like Tatooine). In such a milieu, you must be a Stainless Bonded Superdense rat, slipping in between the cracks of such a society. It's not the game setting I prefer to run, as it limits the options available.

Now, if you just meant corrupted and dark-leaning, that becomes a different story.

Darkness Scale:

1984
Star Wars*
Cyberpunk 2020

* Headed straight for 1984, if not for the courage of a fearless crew . . . whoops, TV is slipping in here, ahhhh!

EDIT---
I rate Star Wars as Darker than Cyberpunk because it's villians are evil incarnate, whereas corporate villains just wish they could be evil incarnate.

 

[mike wightman]

I hope my last post helps to clarify

I'd rate it as slightly below CP 2020.

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by robject:
For your amusement, here's a PDF of four sectors unceremoniously collandered into one sector http://home.comcast.net/~starcharts/smallimperium/VlandSmall.PDF

That's more like it, reduce each sector to a quadrant, therefore each domain becomes a sector, remove a couple of worlds to maintain the rifts and there you have it.
The Imperium at 25% of its original size