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Regency or Reformation Coalition?

A

Arsulon

SOC-12
My earlier posted topic was intended to generate discussion about how GMs and players coped with the unique challenges of playing through the Rebellion/Hard Times/Collapse era. However, unintentionally, the discussion led me to wonder about the viability of the Imperium's two most celebrated sucessor states: the Regency and Reformation Coalition.
The Regency was hemmed in on all sides by other culturally incompatible states. It's economy was about to implode. It had all but abandoned the degree of automation and roboticization we associate with advanced production cababilities. There were scandals in the RQS. They were being flooded with sullen Zhodani refugees and Vargr gangsters. Was/is the Regency doomed to failure?
The Reformation Coalition was hopelessly paralyzed by bureaucratic red tape. The member worlds could not agree on policy (e.g. backside vs. A.O.). They were clearly puppets of the Hivers. They were a culture of scavengers, not builders. The Assembly was dominated by the cultural imperialism of Aubaine (much like the Delian League under Athens). Was/is the RC doomed to failure?
Let's make this an "all things being even" proposition: in other words, don't muddy the waters with "well in MY home-brewed campaign the Vulcans discovered a dimensional rift to the Traveller universe, and THEN...".
What do you think? Regency, RC, both, or neither?
 
"What do you think? Regency, RC, both, or neither?"

Well, the Regency could eat the RC for breakfast. One of its subsector fleets could destroy every ship the RC has, probably including any Hiver ship that was hanging around at the time, without breaking out in a sweat.

For all its problems, the Regency consisted of over a sector of full grown old Imperial worlds.

The RC, on the other hand, didn't even contain a single high population world, and the only one nearby was TL 6!

Some of the Pocket Empires (the Hubworlds, Solee, and Suffren) we were shown were pretty chunky, but even they were miniscule, and rather backward.

Sure, eventually the RC, and the friendlier PEs could rebuild a fair chunk of known space, but the Regency is likely to be able to get there first.

So, despite the fact that I don't really like either of them, I would have to say that the Regency is the more likely contender for being the basis for reestablishing interstellar civilisation.

Of course, the good old Empress Wave would, I'm sure, have handwaved away this awkward fact, or perhaps the opening of the Black Curtain might have had some silly deus ex machina effect, but both of these ideas are too silly for words.

It will be interesting to see what MJD handles things.

Alan Bradley
 
The situation in 1200 is a snapshot; a moment in time. Changes are ongoing in both the RC and the Regency.

Let's just say that both contribute to the re-establishment of civilization, but neither comes to dominate it.
 
MJD, a couple more spoilers, please.

If the Regency goes down and the 4th Imperium is located Rimward. What links them together? Is the Regency just a burnt out cinder of a Pocket Empire that once spanned a Domain? Or has the Regency morphed into something different.

What sort of other Pocket Empires exist that are rivals of the 4th Imperium is what interesting to me.
 
To me, it was completely obvious that the RC does not survive. It does lay the foundation for what is to come, but just looking at the "quotes" in the TNE rulebook shows that the RC is short lived.

For the Regency, it looked to me that it would explode and rip itself apart. It just had too many internal pressures. I think it would have a huge impact on what came after, but I don't see how it could survive long term.

Personally, I hope that only portions of the Regency are included in the 4th Imperium, leaving several human splinter states in its wake.
 
This does bring up one question I have on the Regency, though.

How can they possibly consider themselves "Keepers of the Flame"? They have opened the society up to psionics and eliminated the nobility. Were the Norris reforms to finish and succeed, the resulting society would bear little resemblance to the Third Imperium. How is that keeping the flame.

I realize the "flame" could just refer to technology or a space-faring society. But when that phrase is used, it is almost always in the context of the old Imperium, which the Regency has effectively repudiated.

I don't get it.

It's probably just me.
 
The Regency breaks up, creating smaller states, of which some are affiliated with the 4I.

The RC becomes something else.

And yes, the Star Vikings do leave Charted Space.

Some people have suggested that they go as a scapoegoat for all the blood shed in the reconstruciton. be that as it may, what they do when they leave will wipe away any stain forever.
 
MJD is correct, the RC & Regency cannot continue "As is" ad nauseum. ad infinitum. The Regency must allow exapansion back into the wilds, Or it will implode.
The Reformed Coalition (snicker), as the Soleeans call them (a long story, another post perhaps!) when it expands, (as it too must, and is propelling itself towards with the outcomes from Vampire Fleets book adventures into the Promise subsector vampire main.
The RCSA was fine for 22 worlds, but it becomes cumbersome and inefficient when say, you defeat Solee, absorb the "back face" and hook up with Sitah's polity/ steppingstone nexus state of RENJ ( which is a nearby Hi pop, TL-11 world, btw.). Then add the Promise main worlds, and sver the Vampire Highway.
Yes, change must occur. The RC must cut the drawstrings to the Hivers sooner or later, like a child from the parent, and get out in the Universe on its own. MJD's vision in this respect parallels my own thoughts, but goes much much further.
Looks like its gonna be grand!
Sleinte!
Liam Devlin
 
In the Banners sector which of my pocket empires will come out on top is still in the balance, but given the devestation around them and the proximity to the old Solomani Confederation sectors when the Regency, RC or whoever else is out there meets the Alston League, Hoped Federation or the Czarate of Delsun the result could be interesting.
 
Originally posted by Arsulon:
My earlier posted topic was intended to generate discussion about how GMs and players coped with the unique challenges of playing through the Rebellion/Hard Times/Collapse era. However, unintentionally, the discussion led me to wonder about the viability of the Imperium's two most celebrated sucessor states: the Regency and Reformation Coalition.
The Regency was hemmed in on all sides by other culturally incompatible states. It's economy was about to implode. It had all but abandoned the degree of automation and roboticization we associate with advanced production cababilities. There were scandals in the RQS. They were being flooded with sullen Zhodani refugees and Vargr gangsters. Was/is the Regency doomed to failure?
The Reformation Coalition was hopelessly paralyzed by bureaucratic red tape. The member worlds could not agree on policy (e.g. backside vs. A.O.). They were clearly puppets of the Hivers. They were a culture of scavengers, not builders. The Assembly was dominated by the cultural imperialism of Aurore (much like the Delian League under Athens). Was/is the RC doomed to failure?
Let's make this an "all things being even" proposition: in other words, don't muddy the waters with "well in MY home-brewed campaign the Vulcans discovered a dimensional rift to the Traveller universe, and THEN...".
What do you think? Regency, RC, both, or neither?
Click to expand...
An interesting line of thought.

Shortly after TNE was released and the basic timeline of followon events was made known, my first thought was: "What originally prompted the Hivers to search for a civilisation pocket of the former 3rd Imperium to redevelop with their manipulative goals in mind?"

(Yes ... TNE publications indicated that the Hivers were fearful of what would fill the void of the former Imperium if they didn't assert a form of control over the redevelopment.) But what caused the Hivers to come up with that line of reasoning in the first place?

I didn't have an answer for that... but it unintentionally developed into a campaign plot that I started as a hobby a few years ago and has now taken on a life of its own. A campaign that starts around the year 1185IC involving the Regency recontacting the Hivers. It is the result of this recontact that placed the fear in the Hivers that in turn prompted them to develop the RC.

A campaign involving the triumphs and tribulations of travelling to and back from the Hivers Fed.

<<I must have too much time to waste thinking up ideas like this!>>

And I agree. It will be interesting to discover what happens between the Regency and RC as the future unfolds.
 
Liam:
The "Reformed Coalition" indeed. I got a good laugh out of that CINET trasmission in Challenge #76 (?) which quoted the Soleean Empire haughtily deconstructing all the grand names the RC used for itself and its ships. I was looking forward to the Solee giving the arses a run for their money.
djg_p:
I like your idea of the Regency trying to recontact other stellar polities; after all, they have it on good authority that the Imperium has collapsed, but thier long-term strategy depends on hard intelligence about the other races and states. I remember thinking that an "Arrival Vengeance: Redux" might be in order: refit an Azhanti High Lightning with TL15-16 upgrades, give it a destroyer escort, and basically send it on a similar mission to that of the original.
 
The "Reformed Coalition" indeed. I got a good laugh out of that CINET trasmission in Challenge #76 (?) which quoted the Soleean Empire haughtily deconstructing all the grand names the RC used for itself and its ships. I was looking forward to the Solee giving the arses a run for their money.
--------------------------------------------------
Well, then, Arsulon! I am the Scapegoat for you I see, where Solee is concerned (grins). Might I suggest My sending you my amalgamated thoughts on that particular snafu (Sorry Lewis Roberts, Solee has the ships, they may not have "RC-Trained" crews, but I gave them some ruthless Imperial remnants instead. My e-mail is devlin12@ipa.net, and I can send you "My version" of that Pocket Empire, and events between them and the RC that lead to their war. (btw, IMTU, Solee does lose the war, attrition and Numbers lie against them, alas! But they carved out a nice mini-ramshackle empire while hey were at it. Absorbing it after the war forces a transition in the RC (And thus...the future unfolds! MJD, take i away lad!).

Another Arrival Vengeance mission? I can see the Regency doing JUST that (pays to know whats out there, who you can deal with, who's still "in space, etc. An interstellar Power re-expanding back into the wilds would definitely act on Inteeligence gathering from such a mission. ANything else is Bumping into folks in the dark, and I take it (imho) that the Regency is many things, but not blind stupid!

As ever was,
Sleinte!
Liam
The Anti-Imperial rant of the RC struck me as it has others, as Hypocritical, and sanctimonious, so I brought into my campaign an imperial remnant, my former PC in the Arrival vengeance module, who joined the ship at Warinir. I had him attacked by the Anti-Imps, and let them and their sacred cow Ilelik Kuligaan have it with both barrels . On the BARD TNE web site, under the GAIL file, this is in CINET pkg #10, by the way). The NPC's name, ironically, Martin Francis Rourke, a former IRIS agent, marooned in Daibei, and extracted back to the Marches (his birthplace ). He was marooned a second time in 1130 in Gushmege fetching back stuff from Usdiki when they misjumped....He was rescued in 1190, and made it to the RC after 12 years among Free Traders in 1202, about June.
I use him as my bully pulpit that not all the TI was bad. The Final War was bad, he does not argue. But he doesn't allow himself to be run out of town on a rail either.
 
Hi Arsulon,

Originally posted by Arsulon:

djg_p:
I like your idea of the Regency trying to recontact other stellar polities; after all, they have it on good authority that the Imperium has collapsed, but thier long-term strategy depends on hard intelligence about the other races and states. I remember thinking that an "Arrival Vengeance: Redux" might be in order: refit an Azhanti High Lightning with TL15-16 upgrades, give it a destroyer escort, and basically send it on a similar mission to that of the original.
Click to expand...
The idea of using a High Lightning craft did originally come to mind and to replay an extended version of the "Arrival Vengeance" mission, but I decided against it for numerous reasons. (One reason: I didn't have the specs for the HL on me at the time. So I developed my own craft(s) with its own plot line(s).)

I have already shown some of these details (with campaign lines) to a few of friends here locally. They have all said "More. More." In the end, I suppose that was bad for my hearing because it caused my thought processes to continue. I've now got over 200Meg of info on disk. 95% is info obtained off the net.

<< I now know that I have too much time on my plate!! >>

I might start a new threat in the Adventures area and ask for more ideas.

Cheers, DJG
 
djg_p:
Hey, your Solee material sounds great: I'm at arsulon@hotmail.com is you can send me anything as an attachment, or if you've got some of this stuff online just give me the address and I'm there! Gave it to windbag Kulligan with both barrels, huh? I can only fantasize that you mean that literally rather than figuratively. Did you notice the picture in "Arrival Vengeance" depicts him as a vaguely goat-like old man, wheras by the New Era he's transformed into Melville? I guess Michael Jackson's right about the cold berth treatment being good for the skin. Maybe the RC Kulligan is an actor hired for propaganda reasons to vilify the Imperium...
Liam:
If you ever feel like sharing any of that campaign material I'd love to hear it. Have you considered posting it or maybe putting up a page dedicated to it?
MJD:
I have to pat myself on the back for unintentionally managing to squid free spoilers out of you with my post. I wasn't actually trying to get an "official" response on the status of the RC or Regency out of anyone, I was just posing the question of each state's viability given ONLY what we know from published sources. If you feel like taking off the Canonical Mitre for a bit, spin us your own (unofficial) thoughts on the RC and Regency (or Confederation of Antares, Hubworlds, Sufren, Oasis, etc.) as if the 4th Imperium never happens. No one's going to hold you to anything you say, and with your extensive knowledge of the Traveller universe your viewpoint would be really interesting.
 
I was looking at some of my TNE books the other night and I found some interesting references that may bear on my question. One thing that really interested me was the heat building up around the RC: there are references in "Vampire Fleets" and the CINET transmissions to the RC fleet being spread really thin to meet increased vampire attacks spinward and Solee raiding coreward. Just as I was writing off the RC's postion as being patently untennable, I ran across this reference at the end of "Vampire Fleets":
"These silicon crewmembers will eventually play a major role in overcoming both vampire fleets and the Solean empire, but will be a major source of friction between the Reformation Coalition and the rapidly expanding Regency of Deneb."
Hmmmm. This quote refers to Secretary General Maggart's decision in 1204 to grant citizenship to strains of the virus that want to play ball. Here's another interesting quote to consider:
"'Those murdering machines out there don't have much choice in what they do, but people do. You do. You Coalition people have made a pact with the devil, and you can go straight to hell. If it were up to me, we'd speed you on your way.'"
Commodore Roland Zumetaxis
Regency Quarantine Service, 1206
Hmmm. Interesting. So the RC's tactical ace-in-the-hole turns out to be Virus itself. The vampires get beaten back, as does Solee. We also see that the Regency 311-1202 "Oklahoma Land Rush"(i.e. that is, the opening of the "Wildside" froniter) went off somewhat successfully; after all, they are characterized as "rapidly expanding" and are clearly in contact with the RC by 1206.
Does this "new" information change anyone's mind about the viability of either society?
 
The Regency despises the RC decision to ally with the Stable Virus personae. Suspicious of the Hivers too.

But the Regency has embraced Psionics; who can trust them now?

However; think for a moment. We know that scouts from the RC and the Regency meet up. NOT their borders. All we know is that they meet. What's not said? Who's not mentioned? Who else is out there?

No matter how viable or otherwise the RC and Regency are, they are placed in a very complex universe filled with changes. Not only have they internal tensions to deal with, but they will have to confront a very fluid situation with no clear answers.
 
In short, there is more to the situation than the RC and the Regency.

Thoughts on a postcard please....
 
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