Regency or Reformation Coalition?
- Thread starter Arsulon
- Start date
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
AT your sevice, sir.
Heretically yours in TNE,
Heretically yours in TNE,
Brilliant work Liam. So it looks like the RC Expeditionary Force cuts its teeth on the vampires while Solee edges ever closer, knocking the wind out of the Guild and absorbing non-aligned worlds to coreward of the RC. Based on your calculations, do you think Solee would use its time to consolidate its holdings and build up thier fleet, or go for a sucker punch while the RC is busy with the vampires? The RC has an impossibly broad front (coreward) to defend along, which Solee could take advantage of by launching a series of probing attacks to mask the "big push" into the soft "safe" of the coalition. It seems to me that Solee's message in 1202 was intended to test the RC's political will rather than act as a casus belli. In a way, this is virgin territory for the RC as they have had little opportunity to interact with other stellar polities. Their "foreign policy", for lack of a better term, assumes that there are NO OTHER spacefaring states out there, but rather isolated, backward planets. I wonder what contact with Solee and Sufren will do to the Centrist-Feralist debate?
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Arsulon sez--
"Brilliant work Liam. So it looks like the RC Expeditionary Force cuts its teeth on the vampires while Solee edges ever closer, knocking the wind out of the Guild and absorbing non-aligned worlds to coreward of the RC."
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Between Solee and the RC, the Guild in Thoezennt-Shenk-Karse subsectors is doomed. Many turnb "Free Trader" to escape being "co-opted" (Solee), or Attacked-captured (RC)= one and the same thing
. Deprived of of their TEd markets by Soleean TKHL shipping (out of Jayna subsector-GALINES/ CZERNIAK), the GUild is economically facing a losing war (and losing ships fast too!).
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"Based on your calculations, do you think Solee would use its time to consolidate its holdings and build up thier fleet, or go for a sucker punch while the RC is busy with the vampires?"
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Solee's actions IMTU are based on gathered Intelligence (see also, Spies -subversion (August Delparo- "Death of Wisdom" (estranged hubby of the RCS Hornet's ship's DR., owner of Novastar INC- they make the freshers for the RCN btw..!
)/ Shadowing RC vessels in the RC "AO" of Thoezennt-Shenk-Karse). By my calculations, anyone with presumptions of making good n "margaret's Dream" of re-expansionism (in imperiacl sense) would go for the Build up first. The rapid growth of their "empire" is outpacing their ability to defend it. Sucker punching is tempting, but the Prime targets Oriflamme & Aubaine have heavy SDB forces insystem! (and sensors, insats/ survsats to relay when a foe approaches). The shorter supply line for them in Shenk places the RC into using its J-4 recovered engine ships to the max, while they plug about at J-1 & J-2. My SOlee uses their SDB-Monitors as Battle riders (Or why else did I buy the box set?? Why else did GDW add in an RC-Solee battle (btw I ran that, and the clippers got pasted by Soleean Missile barrages! Yeah, the Sollies took some meson hits from the manticore LBRs, but the Sollies understand BR technique--they have to use it themselves with their dearth of Jump-fleet ships to make the empire "work".). The bad news for the Soleeans, they can't afford to lose ships--the RC can, they have more A-class yards by 1204 than Solee does, and beter tech in sensors, and missiles (thanks to the "helpful" HIvers (smug rubbish eaters that they be!)
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"The RC has an impossibly broad front (coreward) to defend along, which Solee could take advantage of by launching a series of probing attacks to mask the "big push" into the soft "safe" of the coalition. It seems to me that Solee's message in 1202 was intended to test the RC's political will rather than act as a casus belli.
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We share the same conclusion in that act (Marathon Victrix incident-DEC-1201/Jan 1202). Like China holding the Orion Recon ASW plane in Dubya's first six months, a test of wills.
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In a way, this is virgin territory for the RC as they have had little opportunity to interact with other stellar polities. Their "foreign policy", for lack of a better term, assumes that there are NO OTHER spacefaring states out there, but rather isolated, backward planets. I wonder what contact with Solee and Sufren will do to the Centrist-Feralist debate?
_________________________________________________
IMTU, the neutral ground for Solee and RC to discuss talks was Mueller/Shenk. Sufren's existence becomes known by March 1202, wih return of the crew of the DLS "Lady Elise" (see Canon CINET releases CHallenge Magazine/ Vampire Fleets).
Outside of Solee (a hostile polity), the RC had no friendly polity contact. I ran the RCS Belladona throught o completeion by 01 April, with an all volunteer crew (as warships got the first cut as trouble with sOlee was brewing up), and arrived at SUfrem 06 June 1202. Returned by 02 September 1202 with the AVV weapon, "Snake". In October, the previous campaign (96-99) My guys and gals (6 & 2) had done the VF adventures, so in October 1202 I kicked off "Operation Free Promise".
What did it do for the Centrist-Federalist debate? Thats a planet by Planet/ subsector by subsector question to answer. In "Spinward Distractions" I discuss something of this, Khulam was rife with lo pop but freindly worlds towards the RC. (UPon recognition which was a federalist policy, they would demand uplifting--a centrist policy, build up of infrastructure, etc.) Solee targeted where they went, the RC had to do the same, or have a bazillion worlds under her banner, of which maybe less than a third could contribute serious manpower and tech (TL-7 minimum+) towards re-expansion of Space.
Thats some of your answer.
Promise itself (TL-9), became a new venture in several ways...It COULD support the effort to retake the stars (along with Exeter & Eloji TL-8 worlds, Daaliisia TL-7), the rest of the main needed help--but Promise with the "Freebots" (sons of Sandman)would become a mini polity allied "buffer state for a while, while the RC Kicked Soleean butt, and managed Hiver escorted convoys towards sufren 1203-onwards). A Second mini polity in Khulam-Madoc arose, called Shield (based on Richard perks (RichardP here on Coti) of BITs fame in the UK), and this meshed with my view of "what to do with the lo-pop worlds." The RC found an ally with a TL-9-7 space programme, tenuously holding this region versus the Guild and Vampires, and Shield allwed them to turn to corewards.
Sufren never contacted Solee (as a matter of "foreign policy"). ALthough ships from Sufren do picture in my "divestment of the SSE" in late 1204-early 1205 projections from across Khavle & Pasdaruu subsectors.
It is after he RC and Regency meet in 1206 when the Vampires from Core realize something is making a comeback rimwards of them, and "decide" to deal with it. Here I lean towards MJD's OTU pick up.
That's me answer.
Liam Devlin,TNE-HIC
(Traveller New Era-Heretic in Chief)
"Brilliant work Liam. So it looks like the RC Expeditionary Force cuts its teeth on the vampires while Solee edges ever closer, knocking the wind out of the Guild and absorbing non-aligned worlds to coreward of the RC."
____________________________________________
Between Solee and the RC, the Guild in Thoezennt-Shenk-Karse subsectors is doomed. Many turnb "Free Trader" to escape being "co-opted" (Solee), or Attacked-captured (RC)= one and the same thing
"Based on your calculations, do you think Solee would use its time to consolidate its holdings and build up thier fleet, or go for a sucker punch while the RC is busy with the vampires?"
_________________________________________________
Solee's actions IMTU are based on gathered Intelligence (see also, Spies -subversion (August Delparo- "Death of Wisdom" (estranged hubby of the RCS Hornet's ship's DR., owner of Novastar INC- they make the freshers for the RCN btw..!
________________________________________________"The RC has an impossibly broad front (coreward) to defend along, which Solee could take advantage of by launching a series of probing attacks to mask the "big push" into the soft "safe" of the coalition. It seems to me that Solee's message in 1202 was intended to test the RC's political will rather than act as a casus belli.
________________________________________________
We share the same conclusion in that act (Marathon Victrix incident-DEC-1201/Jan 1202). Like China holding the Orion Recon ASW plane in Dubya's first six months, a test of wills.
_____________________________________________
In a way, this is virgin territory for the RC as they have had little opportunity to interact with other stellar polities. Their "foreign policy", for lack of a better term, assumes that there are NO OTHER spacefaring states out there, but rather isolated, backward planets. I wonder what contact with Solee and Sufren will do to the Centrist-Feralist debate?
_________________________________________________
IMTU, the neutral ground for Solee and RC to discuss talks was Mueller/Shenk. Sufren's existence becomes known by March 1202, wih return of the crew of the DLS "Lady Elise" (see Canon CINET releases CHallenge Magazine/ Vampire Fleets).
Outside of Solee (a hostile polity), the RC had no friendly polity contact. I ran the RCS Belladona throught o completeion by 01 April, with an all volunteer crew (as warships got the first cut as trouble with sOlee was brewing up), and arrived at SUfrem 06 June 1202. Returned by 02 September 1202 with the AVV weapon, "Snake". In October, the previous campaign (96-99) My guys and gals (6 & 2) had done the VF adventures, so in October 1202 I kicked off "Operation Free Promise".
What did it do for the Centrist-Federalist debate? Thats a planet by Planet/ subsector by subsector question to answer. In "Spinward Distractions" I discuss something of this, Khulam was rife with lo pop but freindly worlds towards the RC. (UPon recognition which was a federalist policy, they would demand uplifting--a centrist policy, build up of infrastructure, etc.) Solee targeted where they went, the RC had to do the same, or have a bazillion worlds under her banner, of which maybe less than a third could contribute serious manpower and tech (TL-7 minimum+) towards re-expansion of Space.
Thats some of your answer.
Promise itself (TL-9), became a new venture in several ways...It COULD support the effort to retake the stars (along with Exeter & Eloji TL-8 worlds, Daaliisia TL-7), the rest of the main needed help--but Promise with the "Freebots" (sons of Sandman)would become a mini polity allied "buffer state for a while, while the RC Kicked Soleean butt, and managed Hiver escorted convoys towards sufren 1203-onwards). A Second mini polity in Khulam-Madoc arose, called Shield (based on Richard perks (RichardP here on Coti) of BITs fame in the UK), and this meshed with my view of "what to do with the lo-pop worlds." The RC found an ally with a TL-9-7 space programme, tenuously holding this region versus the Guild and Vampires, and Shield allwed them to turn to corewards.
Sufren never contacted Solee (as a matter of "foreign policy"). ALthough ships from Sufren do picture in my "divestment of the SSE" in late 1204-early 1205 projections from across Khavle & Pasdaruu subsectors.
It is after he RC and Regency meet in 1206 when the Vampires from Core realize something is making a comeback rimwards of them, and "decide" to deal with it. Here I lean towards MJD's OTU pick up.
That's me answer.
Liam Devlin,TNE-HIC
(Traveller New Era-Heretic in Chief)
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Doomhunk sez.."
I've never been so happy to eavesdrop in on a conversation Great stuff guys, I'm learning. Makes me wish I had Hard Times & Vampire Fleets.... never mind."
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I've never been ashamed to speak me mind. The 1st ammendment rights n all that..My friend of long standing (dated my lady wife once upon a time, Joe Brown/ aka ADM Logan Drak of Fulacin, COO of Arrival Vengeance Mission)gave me the copy of Gannon's classic work "Hard Times". It is my most prized gift from him (outside of friendship we have had his wife and us lo these past 16 years). Worth your frogs hair and chicken lips collection to get one though. Brian Gibson, whose art is gracing T-20 was one of that set of gamers btw. I learned in good company lad.
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That aside, it might be tempting to see Solee as a possible rival to the RC (it is). Ironically, the Guild opposes them both, but as the two powers co-opt/ absorb new member worlds and their borders tighten towards each other, it is not at all unlike a cold war period we have today with Red China (did I say red? Sorry COMMUNIST China).
Solee has more NJ ships than Jump ships by my math. Whaddya do when you have lemons? Make lemonade! So the SDB to BR Imperial doctrine comes to mind for them, as Does the LASH system (lighter Aboard Ship) the earlier TI used when opening into "frontier regions where established starports C+ or better) did not exist.
With SDB's about, I figured their Jump shuttles must be there still. Solee utilizes these, and some relic transports into JUmp-frames/ jump spindles that carry the TL9, TL-8, and TL-7 Lighters of RS Dean's MT list site about.
Thats why imtu, Solee must use heavy suppressive fires when "landing the troops"--their "drop ships" are slow, usually unarmed, and vulnerable. That too is doctrine of former Imperium (for deploying Marines/ Imperial Army units). MJD and I have this vision of these things (LASH) system plying the mains. Probably out in the upcoming Gateway in Ley you'll see these make a comeback.
Like chapter 14 in HT sez, "it ain't gotta be pretty, its just got to go!"
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As an aside, I WAS very disappointed in GDW in TNE for forgetting all the STL ships that some worlds might still have and dismissing space programs back to TL-9. HULLLLLLLO!??
IMtu i have worlds with NJ TL-7 ships still in operation (some of these, like the Larusaalin Roughneck Frontier Fuel harvester developed in 1125 could be maintained at TL-6!!!).
Not much to a salvager from the Hiver supplied RC, but to Solee these are a godsend!
I believed that if folks could survive Hard Times, and this stuff was that simple and primitive, it would survive Virus. (TL-10 minimum for it to inhabit so all the pre TL-10 is "replace the Solid state/ stuff, and drive on."
Not to mention, modular freighting has been around since HG days. The RC's clippers are excellent uses of this at TL-12 technology. But smaller freighters exist in canon that utilize it too. Gutted Fat Traders with cargo containers, for example, or gutted for 20 & 30dtn lighters
(dressing out at 540dts btw at J-1 or J-2 depending on Jay drives).
I just used what was "out there" and said, Hey.. these guys can make this work (barely)..but it works.
I've never been so happy to eavesdrop in on a conversation Great stuff guys, I'm learning. Makes me wish I had Hard Times & Vampire Fleets.... never mind."_______________________________________
I've never been ashamed to speak me mind. The 1st ammendment rights n all that..My friend of long standing (dated my lady wife once upon a time, Joe Brown/ aka ADM Logan Drak of Fulacin, COO of Arrival Vengeance Mission)gave me the copy of Gannon's classic work "Hard Times". It is my most prized gift from him (outside of friendship we have had his wife and us lo these past 16 years). Worth your frogs hair and chicken lips collection to get one though. Brian Gibson, whose art is gracing T-20 was one of that set of gamers btw. I learned in good company lad.
---------------------------------
That aside, it might be tempting to see Solee as a possible rival to the RC (it is). Ironically, the Guild opposes them both, but as the two powers co-opt/ absorb new member worlds and their borders tighten towards each other, it is not at all unlike a cold war period we have today with Red China (did I say red? Sorry COMMUNIST China).
Solee has more NJ ships than Jump ships by my math. Whaddya do when you have lemons? Make lemonade! So the SDB to BR Imperial doctrine comes to mind for them, as Does the LASH system (lighter Aboard Ship) the earlier TI used when opening into "frontier regions where established starports C+ or better) did not exist.
With SDB's about, I figured their Jump shuttles must be there still. Solee utilizes these, and some relic transports into JUmp-frames/ jump spindles that carry the TL9, TL-8, and TL-7 Lighters of RS Dean's MT list site about.
Thats why imtu, Solee must use heavy suppressive fires when "landing the troops"--their "drop ships" are slow, usually unarmed, and vulnerable. That too is doctrine of former Imperium (for deploying Marines/ Imperial Army units). MJD and I have this vision of these things (LASH) system plying the mains. Probably out in the upcoming Gateway in Ley you'll see these make a comeback.
Like chapter 14 in HT sez, "it ain't gotta be pretty, its just got to go!"
------------------------------
As an aside, I WAS very disappointed in GDW in TNE for forgetting all the STL ships that some worlds might still have and dismissing space programs back to TL-9. HULLLLLLLO!??
IMtu i have worlds with NJ TL-7 ships still in operation (some of these, like the Larusaalin Roughneck Frontier Fuel harvester developed in 1125 could be maintained at TL-6!!!).
Not much to a salvager from the Hiver supplied RC, but to Solee these are a godsend!
I believed that if folks could survive Hard Times, and this stuff was that simple and primitive, it would survive Virus. (TL-10 minimum for it to inhabit so all the pre TL-10 is "replace the Solid state/ stuff, and drive on."
Not to mention, modular freighting has been around since HG days. The RC's clippers are excellent uses of this at TL-12 technology. But smaller freighters exist in canon that utilize it too. Gutted Fat Traders with cargo containers, for example, or gutted for 20 & 30dtn lighters
(dressing out at 540dts btw at J-1 or J-2 depending on Jay drives).
I just used what was "out there" and said, Hey.. these guys can make this work (barely)..but it works.
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Is that a request for me to xerox HT for you? Read yer profile lad. I'm off to an SCA event, you entertain the lovely LisaGB while I'm away in the chat rooms. I'm going to try and send you what Mr lewis roberts (Maui/Hawaii) wouldnae put up on BARD site at www.downport .com on Solee & such thru yer e-mail. Can you take attachments? Or does yer mail have a size limit like Arsulons?
TNE-HIC
(TNE-Heretic in Chief)
TNE-HIC
(TNE-Heretic in Chief)
As I don't have any of the TNE sourcebooks here's a question that came to mind. If the Solee have a limited supply of jumpships, did they nationalised all or some of them? This make most non-military lighters and NJ ships privately own. Most interstellar travel is done thru a government subsidized tender service.
Your comment reminded me of a situation I created in a pocket empire in the Foreven Sector.
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
George B. sez.."As I don't have any of the TNE sourcebooks here's a question that came to mind. If the Solee have a limited supply of jumpships, did they nationalised all or some of them? This make most non-military lighters and NJ ships privately own. Most interstellar travel is done thru a government subsidized tender service.
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IMTU, (and in my not so HO) the solee have their nationalized fleet with more in orbit to use as parts, or refurbish (they do both). Now their law level is 1 (mighty nice, free open armed society if ye look at it, led by Charismatic Dictator (Empress Gabby Ramstattan). Yes, the ships are nationalized (all of em). Only the TKHL (my amalgamated survivors remnants of Transstar & Tukera Lines LIC).
The solee utilize Gunboat diplomacy and then bring in the LASH ships once reasonable peaceful (imposed of course) relations exist asap. They too can earn the moniker "Star Vikings" by the Guild. This way they maintain some trade with those they've "co-opted" into their sphere.
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"Your comment reminded me of a situation I created in a pocket empire in the Foreven Sector."
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Great minds think alike George. I also use the Solee as a reminder of how the iperials used to do things..and the RC players see themselves mirrored by the "successes of Solee" (who is better? who is more evil?" Right and wrong get kinda blurry when yer doing the smae things, only one is under a one woman autocracy and your's is a Bureaucracy). Black and white, But lots of Gray...
Fer example, the Solee don't hold with slavery anymore than the RC does. But they do utilize penal labor on their resource/salvage worlds. (Yeppurs, they relly mean "hard labor"). On the other hand, they aren't pan sophontists like the RC. They feel betrayed by the Hivers backing the RC--not them, the heirs presumptive to "Margaret's Dream" (somewhat sketched out in the end of Hard Times, by the death confession of Tredek Jurisdor of Ilelish.)
____________________________________________
IMTU, (and in my not so HO) the solee have their nationalized fleet with more in orbit to use as parts, or refurbish (they do both). Now their law level is 1 (mighty nice, free open armed society if ye look at it, led by Charismatic Dictator (Empress Gabby Ramstattan). Yes, the ships are nationalized (all of em). Only the TKHL (my amalgamated survivors remnants of Transstar & Tukera Lines LIC).
The solee utilize Gunboat diplomacy and then bring in the LASH ships once reasonable peaceful (imposed of course) relations exist asap. They too can earn the moniker "Star Vikings" by the Guild. This way they maintain some trade with those they've "co-opted" into their sphere.
_______________________________________________
"Your comment reminded me of a situation I created in a pocket empire in the Foreven Sector."
________________________________________________
Great minds think alike George. I also use the Solee as a reminder of how the iperials used to do things..and the RC players see themselves mirrored by the "successes of Solee" (who is better? who is more evil?" Right and wrong get kinda blurry when yer doing the smae things, only one is under a one woman autocracy and your's is a Bureaucracy). Black and white, But lots of Gray...
Fer example, the Solee don't hold with slavery anymore than the RC does. But they do utilize penal labor on their resource/salvage worlds. (Yeppurs, they relly mean "hard labor"). On the other hand, they aren't pan sophontists like the RC. They feel betrayed by the Hivers backing the RC--not them, the heirs presumptive to "Margaret's Dream" (somewhat sketched out in the end of Hard Times, by the death confession of Tredek Jurisdor of Ilelish.)
Again the tactics sounds almost like what I setup for the Scadus Union, my pocket empire. Tenders are regularly used for transporting SDBs, marine assault lighters, logistics, and fighter hangers. The tender design I created is lightly armed and armoured for a chance of survival. Also most warships have a bay or two to carry lighters, usually SDBs or marine carriers.
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
George Boyett said-"Again the tactics sounds almost like what I setup for the Scadus Union, my pocket empire. Tenders are regularly used for transporting SDBs, marine assault lighters, logistics, and fighter hangers. The tender design I created is lightly armed and armoured for a chance of survival. Also most warships have a bay or two to carry lighters, usually SDBs or marine carriers."
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Precisely what I intended with swapping Jump drives out of a 10ktn Malkop Solomani Frigate into a 10ktn TL-10 bulk freighter from the days of prewar Shenk. Only they did this with 4 of them (Thats 5ktn displacement of hold/ hangar space. each, now with J-3 instead of J-1. The 4 J-1's (for a 10ktn ship) were placed into a modular jump spindle that could move 2500dtns total. or move 8times 400dtn MT insystem lighters about.
The SDB/ BR concept then becomes doable/ as does a j-1 main sustained supply line. With enough lighters, the J-frame sits in orbit at a C-class port, gets fueled, picks up last weeks 8 lighters while THIS weeks does the business "dirtside", and boogies out of system in minimal time.
______________________________
Precisely what I intended with swapping Jump drives out of a 10ktn Malkop Solomani Frigate into a 10ktn TL-10 bulk freighter from the days of prewar Shenk. Only they did this with 4 of them (Thats 5ktn displacement of hold/ hangar space. each, now with J-3 instead of J-1. The 4 J-1's (for a 10ktn ship) were placed into a modular jump spindle that could move 2500dtns total. or move 8times 400dtn MT insystem lighters about.
The SDB/ BR concept then becomes doable/ as does a j-1 main sustained supply line. With enough lighters, the J-frame sits in orbit at a C-class port, gets fueled, picks up last weeks 8 lighters while THIS weeks does the business "dirtside", and boogies out of system in minimal time.
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Doomhunk-need hard mail addy to send you your copy of "Hard Times". I have vamp Fleets, so do you need that one too?
Also, your aol.com addy tossed back my reply & attachments.
Was gibts hier?
Gonna do fer you what I need to get cranked out fer Arsulon by snail mail. Print the Argon Blue File (that which is NOT on www.downport.com Bard site
Also, your aol.com addy tossed back my reply & attachments.
Was gibts hier?
Gonna do fer you what I need to get cranked out fer Arsulon by snail mail. Print the Argon Blue File (that which is NOT on www.downport.com Bard site
