Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Curiousity.
Cats.
Cats.
Reinventing Traveller
- Thread starter DaltonSpence
- Start date
Vargr Breath
SOC-13
More skills for exploration maybe an Explorer Class (different from Scout)
Exo-Archaeology
Exobiology
Wilderness Survival
Language -Written & Spoken
Exo-Archaeology
Exobiology
Wilderness Survival
Language -Written & Spoken
Depends on your definition of "Travel".
Travel as in they're wanderers, no roots, follow distant opportunities, etc.
Vs commercial interests, traveling for business, etc. I'm reminded of Theodore Judah, one of those responsible for the Intercontinental Railroad. Notably, how he had to travel from the east coast to the west coast. There two paths, the fastest being a ship to Panama, followed by a donkey ride across the isthmus, then another ship up the west coast. The other route was around the horn in South America. Neither of these is "casual" travel. Weeks at see or on land is not the best of conditions. In the end, he died of yellow fever contracted during one of his several trips back and forth. Another risk.
Also emigration is another driver for travel, especially for folks who are not, well, "travelers".
Simply, more than "people who Travel" are going to be filling up the staterooms of interstellar starships.
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
The big change Traveller really needs is a system to allow player characters to grow over time. As it stands, the character generation system and game are geared towards generating characters for a scenario, not for use in some prolonged game where they are used in scenario after scenario, mission after mission.
This would allow players to generate a young character, even one who is on their first term of service and be played through to gain skills and experience through gaming.
Traveller works well for generating characters for a specific scenario or for doing wargaming. What it doesn't work as well as is a RPG where players expect their characters to grow as they explore the universe.
This would allow players to generate a young character, even one who is on their first term of service and be played through to gain skills and experience through gaming.
Traveller works well for generating characters for a specific scenario or for doing wargaming. What it doesn't work as well as is a RPG where players expect their characters to grow as they explore the universe.
I use milestone type advances, such as 1 point at the end of an arc that can be used to buy a new skill, raise a current one, or add to their characteristics; plus the education system from MgT1/CE, plus if they try something and fail with a 2, they get to roll 2d6 and subtract the result in weeks from their education time.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Traveller has an experience system that works just fine, you just can't go from zero to hero without real time doing stuff. Advancement due to experience was originally designed to allow character advancement over game time at a similar rate that characters gain skills in careers.
That said as the game was iterated and more skill levels are granted per term the experience rules need a slight adjustment to keep to this pace.
If scouts, other and the other careers that have no rank structure gain 2 skills per term plus mustering out benefit (let's call that an additional 'advancement potential') then there should be three potential experience gains per 4 year cycle of game time.
I would additionally propose that the aforementioned careers should get three skill on their first term and then two per subsequent term.
What really needs expanding are the referee determined esoteric advancement methods - throw enough money at a VR sim or have memory implants (see T5), then there are biological augmentations through bioengineering and the good old cybernetic enhancements possible with high TLs.
At sufficiently high TL you could have a synthetic body constructed or a bioengineered clone body that you could have your brain transplanted to.
That said as the game was iterated and more skill levels are granted per term the experience rules need a slight adjustment to keep to this pace.
If scouts, other and the other careers that have no rank structure gain 2 skills per term plus mustering out benefit (let's call that an additional 'advancement potential') then there should be three potential experience gains per 4 year cycle of game time.
I would additionally propose that the aforementioned careers should get three skill on their first term and then two per subsequent term.
What really needs expanding are the referee determined esoteric advancement methods - throw enough money at a VR sim or have memory implants (see T5), then there are biological augmentations through bioengineering and the good old cybernetic enhancements possible with high TLs.
At sufficiently high TL you could have a synthetic body constructed or a bioengineered clone body that you could have your brain transplanted to.
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 1K
Ironically, such a system is detailed (barely...) in LBB2.81, p42-43 ... but permanent increases take four years to realize, except for raising education up to match intelligence (that just takes 50 sessions, max 2 per week).
In other words, most campaigns will have ended before characters have spent enough time in-game to be eligible for stat and/or skill advancement after completing chargen. For "one shot" campaign sessions, like a single playthrough at a convention, that's perfectly adequate, since you're only going to be playing that character for a few hours at most ... but for a sustained, longer running campaign? Definitely not ideal.
The basic chargen system (LBB1.81) makes the underlying assumption of 1 skill point per 4 years equivalence, so it's easy to see where that assumption for Experience growth to characters comes from in LBB2.81, p42-43 since it's simply an extension of the basic chargen out of LBB1.81. You run into problems with the extended chargen system of LBB4-7 where you can potentially earn 4 (or more!) skill points per 4 years (and characters who earn only 1-2 skill points per 4 years feel like "bunglers" and washouts under the extended chargen systems). So the "experience gains take 4 years to realize" starts looking pretty lackluster in comparison to the rate of skill uptake in the extended chargen systems.
For a longer running campaign, as a Referee I would do something like making note (or have the Players make note) of "opportunities for advancement" of stats and skills awarded because of actions/activities their character engages in during a game session. Basically a kind of "tick mark" system for non-routine use of skills or attributes.
If you used your Gun Combat skill (for example) during the game session in a way that wasn't "routine" ... such as an opposed combat firefight where you had to shoot at adversaries and had to roll dice ... you get a "tick mark" for that skill for that game session.
Depending on what a character does during a game session, they can get multiple tick marks for use of different skills and attributes (yes, use of attributes would count as well for this system). However, each skill or attribute can only earn one tick mark per game session as a reward during play (so you can't earn like 10 tick marks on one skill in a single game session). Optional to have an MVP review at the end of each game session in which the Referee and Players vote on whose contributions were the most valuable during the game session (PC or NPC), in which voting for your own character is not allowed (have to vote for someone other than yourself). Whoever wins the MVP award by having more votes than anyone else (draw results do not count) can freely add another tick mark to their character's skills or abilities without restriction (so max two tick marks on a chosen skill or attribute per game session with MVP award), allowing for the development of skills and attributes that weren't directly "featured" during the game session or allowing for "faster" development of skills and attributes that were "crucial" during the game session (winning the MVP award) at the Player's option.
At the beginning of each new game session, Players would be allowed to choose ZERO OR ONE skill or attribute on their character sheet to roll for a chance to advance that skill or attribute.
If the Player chooses ZERO options to advance, then all earned tick marks on the skills and attributes on the character sheet "ride" into the next gaming session, so there is no "loss of options" if a Player chooses not to attempt an advancement at the start of a game session.
If the Player chooses ONE option to advance, all tick marks not associated with the chosen option are forfeited and erased. The ONE option to advance makes a 2D6 roll with a threshold of 13+, with each tick mark adding a +1DM to the roll. So a natural 12 on 2D will yield an advancement on the choice with a single tick mark ... while a natural 2 on 2D will yield an advancement on the choice with 11 tick marks. If the threshold is met, increase the skill or attribute by +1. If the threshold is not met, the tick marks accrued remain and can be added to during the upcoming game session.
Such a system allows characters to grow "organically" as a reaction to what they actually "do" within individual game sessions and then gives Players the choice of how they want to advance their characters (have to choose, can't just be everything all at once). WHEN the advancement happens will have something of a random element to it, rather than being predetermined ... but WHAT the character is working towards advancing is controlled by the Player (pick one thing and that's what you're working on getting better at). The "choose zero" option is there to allow Players to "wait" on making a choice, if they want to, rather than compelling them to make a choice prematurely that they will later come to regret making. The "let 'em ride" feature of the "choose zero" option allows Players to quite literally keep their options open for choosing what they want to attempt to advance until they're ready to make that choice.
So if I was reinventing Traveller, that's how I would handle setting up the rules for character growth in ongoing campaigns. Basically, characters "grow" as a result of what they DO during play ... which ought to feel somewhat satisfying for everyone.
I'm sure there are some tweaks that could be made to the above paradigm to include stuff like continuing education and the like (that aren't "active" use of skills and attributes), but the basic idea is broadly as I've described and outlined.
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
This is where the game needs some sort of system to gain skills in detail. Obviously, it would need to be based on the level of the skill, the stats of the character, and time involved, along with the character either studying, practicing, or using it. So, the time to gain a skill would vary. It'd be pretty easy to get level 0 in a skill, say a few weeks to a few months. Getting a level 3 or 4 would involve a year or years of regular practice to achieve. All this would be varied by the player's stats. So, if you had high stats in things necessary for that skill, you'd get it faster. If you were low in the necessary skills you could either work to improve the stats or accept it will take longer to achieve.
In fact, done correctly, it should be virtually impossible for a character with poor stats in needed areas to achieve a high skill level.
As an addition, I'd say adding more skills would be a good thing allowing players to generate characters tailored to their personal choices even if these don't fit the typical ones for a Traveller. For example, someone might develop a character that is a merchant that never leaves their home world... until one day they get put into a position where they have to for some reason...
In fact, done correctly, it should be virtually impossible for a character with poor stats in needed areas to achieve a high skill level.
As an addition, I'd say adding more skills would be a good thing allowing players to generate characters tailored to their personal choices even if these don't fit the typical ones for a Traveller. For example, someone might develop a character that is a merchant that never leaves their home world... until one day they get put into a position where they have to for some reason...
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 1K
Except ... this is inconsistent with the chargen, where +1 skill is always +1 skill, regardless of starting skill level. It's not like you need "extra years" to advance from 3 to 4 than you do from 1 to 2 (per se).
I know what you're aiming for ... a kind of diminishing returns on how "fast" additional skill levels can be acquired (quickly for low levels of skill, slowly for high levels of skill), but that's kind of an artificial AD&D leveling paradigm construct in which every new character level requires more XP than the previous character level.
Again, I know what you're angling for with this formulation (prodigies skill up faster than bumblers) ... but again, that's not how the chargen works (at least, not in CT). Just because you've got a lousy DEX stat doesn't mean you can't wind up with a lot of Gun Combat skill as a result of chargen, for example.
I find this approach to be especially unappealing (as a Referee) in a Traveller context. It basically puts an upper limit on characters entirely dependent upon their attribute stats in reference to specific skills. It advantages the powerful (let alone the munchkins) while punishing the weak (sometimes known as roleplayers).
Real Men {do A}.
Roleplayers {do B}.
Loonies {do C}.
Munchkins {do D}.
Skill preferences:
Real Men want Gun Combat.
Roleplayers want Carousing.
Loonies want Demolitions and insist on using "cursed" dice that fumble a lot.
Munchkins reroll until they get Jack of All Trades-7+.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Your one skill per term analysis is incorrect. You have to take into account automatic skills and the chance of commission and promotion skills.
After one term in the Army you would have to be unlucky not to have 6 levels of skills. Thereafter it is likely to be 2 skills per term.
Merchants are likely to have 3 skills in their first term and only 1 per term unless they get lucky.
Navy and Marines have a much slower skill gain rate due to the promotion roll being hidden behind a high commission roll. They are likely to be at 2 skills for the first term and then 1 per term.
Then you have the flat rate of 2 per term for scouts and other.
Average 2.8 skills per 4 years
After two terms of service it is likely to be:
Army 7 skill levels
Merchant, Scout and Other 4 skill levels
Navy and Marine 3 skill levels.
Average 3 skills per 4 years
At three terms the average is 2.75 per 4 years.
At four terms the average is 2.6
So gaining 2 skill equivalencies due to experience is a little on the low side of average.
After one term in the Army you would have to be unlucky not to have 6 levels of skills. Thereafter it is likely to be 2 skills per term.
Merchants are likely to have 3 skills in their first term and only 1 per term unless they get lucky.
Navy and Marines have a much slower skill gain rate due to the promotion roll being hidden behind a high commission roll. They are likely to be at 2 skills for the first term and then 1 per term.
Then you have the flat rate of 2 per term for scouts and other.
Average 2.8 skills per 4 years
After two terms of service it is likely to be:
Army 7 skill levels
Merchant, Scout and Other 4 skill levels
Navy and Marine 3 skill levels.
Average 3 skills per 4 years
At three terms the average is 2.75 per 4 years.
At four terms the average is 2.6
So gaining 2 skill equivalencies due to experience is a little on the low side of average.
I came up with my system in play, as about four and a half years real time, was six months game time, and I wanted faster advancement, it might not have been 100% realistic, except that is a game. I wanted to be able to reward the players above, and beyond normal means. They had a good time, and I liked watching them come up with reasons for why they got the increases, such as organizing zero-G training in the cargo hold.
Heh, Savage Worlds then?
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Definitely not Savage Worlds - although the latest Free league games Alien, T200 and now Bladerunner come close.
As much as i like Savage Worlds the plastic agility of basic Character generation is hard to beat. Though I am writing MTs basic into CT, the special is a wonderful addition.
BackworldTraveller
SOC-13
If you look at history, far more people than that would Travel over a week to find a new life/for business purposes/etc. One in a million suggests that the world would have taken a lot longer to fall under the human yoke than it did. And in recent times, the USA wouldn't exist in its current form, nor the current states in South America or the Antipodes.
My family recalls an era when people moving abroad took weeks top get there and never expected to return (let alone travel the distance within a day!) We mustn't forget that those with nothing but open boats settled in Greenland and mounted expeditions to the east of the Mediterranean. Those using just pack animals travelled from Italy to China.
At one stage nearly 10% of the male population of Britain were sailors (OK I can't find the reference but it was definitely many, many tens of thousands out of a population of a few million)
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Travellers are a breed apart - they are not simply migrant workers IMHO. They set out to win their fortunes whatever they may be.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Or murder hobos.
BackworldTraveller
SOC-13
I suspect an in built bias here. Of the 10 travellers that set out to win their fortune, 9 die, never come back and are thus never heard of again and the final 1 advertises how the path to riches lies in travelling - thus supplying 10 ready volunteers trying to make their fortune!
One can easily turn Traveller Atts into a dice code compatible with SW...
| Traveller Att | 1-2 | 3-4 | 5-6 | 7-8 | 9-A | B-C | D-E | F-G |
| Savage Worlds | [d2] | d4 | d6 | d8 | d10 | d12 | D12+1 or [d14] | D12+2 or [d16] |
| Traveller Att | 1 | 2 | 3 | -- | 4-6 | 7-9 | A-C | D-F | G-J |
| Traveller skill | unskilled | -- | -- | level 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 |
| Cortex | [d2] | [d3] | d4 | player choice of no die or d4 | d6 | d8 | d10 | d12 | (coice of d12+1 or 2d10) or [d14] |
brackets indicate unusual dice. I do have 2d14 and 4d16... and a d24, 2d7, and 3d3, plus 20dF (~d3-2)
for the d6 dice pool versions of YZE...
| Traveller Att | -- | -- | 1-3 | 4-6 | 7-9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 |
| Traveller Skill | unskilled | 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5+ | |
| YZE #D6 | -1 | +0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 |
Noting that successes start at 6, 2 successes at 10... and 3 should start at 14, but 1's are bad on all dice
| Traveller Att | -- | 1-4 | 5-8 | 9-12 | 13-16 | 17-19 | |
| Traveller Skill | unskilled | 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | |
| T2K 4e dice | no die | d4 | d6 | d8 | d10 | d12 | [d14] |
And yes, I'd been pondering this for a while. Hence why I own 2d14...
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
The new T2k and Bladerunner system has my group interested...
