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CT Only: Traveller Tech Levels

Without hitting the googles I'm pretty sure a rifle is something with a rifled barrel. So, it's a shotgun with a rifled slug, but that doesn't make it a rifle.

A .22 caliber shooting a shot shell is still a rifle even though it doesn't affect the shot payload. A rifle with a shot shell.

And I don't even want to dip toes into the "Well Mr. Smartypants, what's about a pistol? They have rifled barrels, are they rifles too?"
I thought he was suggesting rifling the barrel to improve the accuracy of the "12 gauge slug" (which it would). Rifled slugs in a smoothbore barrel are legit. Technically, micro-groves in a barrel may be "Legal" under US BATF rules (depending on the winds of interpretation) ... but that seems cheating to me and spin generally NERFS shot patterns with small pellets from what I read.
 
I was thinking about rifling the barrel, for the slug.

Shell could be sabotted, though that would require likely an additional secondary charge to get the dart to an appropriate velocity.

Though if it's guided, plus high explosive, speed won't be that much of an issue.
 
I can see use for "m-drive" based recoil compensation, because in canon (no pun intended) m-drives do not involve reaction mass*, and thus do not pose a hazard to the weapon operator or personnel to their rear. This is quite different from how recoilless rifles and rocket-based projectiles work.

---‐---
*Heplar and LBB2'77 and LBB5'79 excluded. Also, depending on the edition, grav drives don't generate much thrust; instead, they provide for levitation and only token lateral thrust -- hence specifying the mechanism of m-drives.
 
I was thinking about rifling the barrel, for the slug.
Then it is a rifle not a shotgun.
Shell could be sabotted, though that would require likely an additional secondary charge to get the dart to an appropriate velocity.
This has a lot more potential if you want to maintain the shotgun as a smooth bore.
Though if it's guided, plus high explosive, speed won't be that much of an issue.
Depends how fast you can get the projectile moving, the biggest issue is it dumping its energy into the target rather than just passing through...
 
Not following the game origins in GB part.

The game originated in the US Midwest and always had law levels.
Huh. Maybe I misinterpreted it's popularity and publishing history as origin. Apologies, I stand corrected.

I still wonder if when determining law level they were using England as an example because it DOES seem like shotguns will be the last firearm to be banned there.
 
That's likely a pragmatic approach to allowing guns for farmers and shooting enthusiasts.

I think the rules were tightened after their last mass shooting.
 
Why would you shoot enthusiasts?

The last mass shooting that wasn't terrorism related involved a shotgun.

There have been a lot more killed with knives than mass shootings.
 
tmr-4.jpg


Health and safety violations, I'd say.
 
Recoil is recoil. KE is KE.

TL3 = Blunderbuss
TL4 = Double Barrel Coach Gun
TL5 = Pump Action Trench Gun
TODAY = Semi-Auto Shougun / Full-Auto Shotgun

Ammo has made some improvements and Actions (loading) has made significant improvement, but MARINES have employed roughly the same Ammo at roughly the same KE for hundreds of years because it does the job well.
Ammunition is where almost all of the significant changes have happened with smoothbores.

Going from loose powder, wad, and ball to self-contained cartridges
Different loads giving better lethality--from slugs to variable ball size and number
Specialized ammunition types like:
Case--originally cut shells, but now a sort of shrapnel round that goes out as a slug and then breaks open scattering shot at the target end.
Flammable--like "Dragon's Breath" using flammable metals ignited on firing
HE--in various forms turning the shotgun / smoothbore into a grenade launcher or small anti-armor weapon.

I could see guided and other 'intelligent' rounds being developed in the future for use with these weapons. By something like TL10 to 11 I'd say they could be launchers for tiny, guided missiles. I could envision something like that for even a bow or crossbow.

It wouldn't be the weapon that would be controlled by law so much as the ammunition. So, you could have the shotgun, but you couldn't possess things like high explosive guided rounds for it, or ones where the shot was some sort of quick acting poison or whatever. That stuff could easily be illegal on a world where shotguns are otherwise allowed.
 
SO MANY discussions about Traveller seem to center on the REAL or a PERCEIVED divergence between the Traveller TL progression set in stone in 1977 and the almost 50 years that have transpired since. Let's beat that horse one more time in a TOPIC created specifically for that discussion.

Setting aside TL 0-3 for a moment since the "historic" periods are a discussion all on their own about "what defines each TL", there was a 40 year per TL progression started at TL 4 (1860-1900), continued to TL 5 (1900-1940) and then broken in the official TL TIMELINE after that as a wargame company focused on WW2 then Korea then Vietnam as the TL cornerstones. I believe this was a mistake. I think the 40 year TL makes sense for HUMAN CULTURAL and GENERATIONAL reasons. I advocate a continuation of this 40 year trend as a better "fit" for Traveller TLs vs Real World TLs.

From Traveller, we have a progression of a new Technology from Experimental (TL-2) to Developmental (TL-1) to Commercial (TL). Let's map that to 20 year Human Generations.

Let us use "Automobiles" as a historic example. The Experimental Automobiles were TL 4 (resembling steam, electric and gasoline bicycles). The Developmental Automobiles were TL 5 (where every driver was also a mechanic). The ubiquitous Commercial Automobiles are TL 6 (1940-1960).

So let's look at the population in 1960, when Automobiles are ubiquitous technology.
  • The population under the age of 20 remembers from 1940 to 1960 and cannot remember a time when automobiles were not ubiquitous technology.
  • Their parents: The population from age 20 to 40 remembers from 1920 to 1960 and cannot remember a time before automobiles. They watched automobiles improve from expensive and unreliable (1920) to inexpensive and reliable (1940) plus 20 years of automobiles as ubiquitous technology.
  • Their grandparents: The population from age 40 to 60 remembers from 1900 to 1960 and watched automobiles improve from expensive and unreliable (1900) to inexpensive and reliable (1940) plus 20 years of automobiles as ubiquitous technology.
  • Their great-grandparents: The population from age 60 to 80 remembers from 1880 to 1960 and can remember a time before automobiles. They read about experimental automobiles for 20 years (1880-1900), watched automobiles improve for 40 years (1900-1940) and experienced 20 years of automobiles as ubiquitous technology (1940-1960).
  • Their great-great-grandparents: The population from age 80 to 100 remembers from 1860 to 1960 and can remember a time before automobiles. They read about experimental automobiles for 40 years (1860-1900), watched automobiles improve for 40 years (1900-1940) and experienced 20 years of automobiles as ubiquitous technology (1940-1960).
From a HUMAN perspective, the technology is "ubiquitous" because there exists no segment of the population that either has not grown up knowing nothing else, or has watched the technology develop over a lifetime [long enough to accept it].

We should continue this 40 year per TL progression forward because HUMAN GENERATIONS remain unchanged. Lack of familiarity and acceptance is a gap to "ubiquitous". If you leave the older generations behind with new Technology, then "ubiquitous" will still be delayed until they die off and are replaced by people that know only the new Technology. So you can adopt technology faster, but "ubiquitous" cannot really be accelerated too much.

Using the 40 year TLs, I propose a revised timeline of:

TL 4 (1860-1900) Steam
TL 5 (1900-1940) Internal Combustion
TL 6 (1940-1980) Jets
TL 7 (1980-2020) Computers
TL 8 (2020-2060) Lasers
TL 9 (2060-2100) Fusion
TL 10 (2100+) Gravity/Jump

I really have no idea what the "correct" progression is for mythical technology like FTL travel or reactionless drives. Perhaps 100 years per TL seems as good a starting point as any.
So, I was thinking about this as it pertains to actual gear, and it occurs to me that anything that we have today that didn't exist in 1980 (to pick a round number, now almost 45 years ago) ought to count as TL8 gear. So what do we have today that we didn't have commercially, for civilians, in 1980 that we have in 2020, a short list:
- Cell phones that can act as computer terminals (I suppose cell phones of a sort existed in 1980, but were primitive and not widespread)
- Internet (Same, ARPANet existed in 1977, but was not publically accessible and filled with everyone.)
- GPS (Same, military-only, though it apparently was operational for the military in 1968 in a primitive incarnation, and was made available to civilians in 1983, so maybe GPS is TL7. I am inlined to count 1980's GPS gear as TL-1, though, as it was pretty primitive.)
- Electric Vehicles (They've been around forever, but only recently become commercial.)
- Compact Disks (we didn't have them until 1982, though technically laser disks predated them, and now they're passe, it seems.)
- TCAS (the aircraft system that keeps you from bumping into other planes in the sky, in development in the 1980's, now ubiquitous). and a lot of other safety avionics like TAWS (which keeps you from bumping into the ground, or tries very hard to), and in general the whole modern aircraft cockpit has changed from a zillion guages to a bank of computer screens (often depicting guages, ironically).
- Body Armor, which I know very little about, has come a very long way since 1980's primitive flak vests, and is now commercially available to citizens in many places (local laws vary wildly).

These are the first things that come to mind. I know I'm missing things, but a one-word summary of developments at a modern TL seemed inadequate. The computer game civilization divides tech advances into bite-sized chunks, one tech at a time, and groups them into eras akin to Tech Levels, so maybe we could make a map like that. I have begun but it turns out the one from the game is weird in places, or is keyed to certain events. I have included something like TL 0 and TL1 from the Civ 5 tech tree with wikipedia dates for certain technologies.

1734778518918.png

TLs seem like a good way to know at a glance what a world can support, and in 1980, it was a useful way to represent a region with different access to technology: If the US was TL7 in 1980, a lot of Europe was TL6, and a lot of the rest of the world was back at TL5 or before. But different planets may prioritize different parts of a TL, or may have TL (x) in one thing, and TL (x-1) in others.

I guess my main point is that TL is far more nuanced than a single number can possibly represent. If the listed TL is the peak TL supportable on a world, how do you denote how narrow or broad that support is? Do you have everything at that TL? Just one thing at that TL? The TL linked to Pop makes a lot of sense to me, too, and I think it may get adopted IMTU.

I think I have diverged a bit from the main point of the discussion, but I am curious how this is dealt with in other's games?
 
The requirements for achieving TL8 have yet to be met, and yet we have far surpassed computer and robotics predictions.
Pegging TL8 and TL9 to real world future dates was always an error, much like a nuclear war in the year 2000 :)

To achieve TL8 we need fusion power (still twenty years off, and will be again in twenty years time), grav technology to build air/rafts and m-5 drives, and man portable laser weapons (getting there with vehicle mounted, and man portable designates could be used to blind but that is banned)

What I do is say anything you can buy on the interwebs is TL7, to allow for the range of stuff I have a fractional TL. I'm not fan of T5 or MgT allowing experimental devices a couple of TLs lower than standard. So I have the TL scale broken into fifths.
 
The requirements for achieving TL8 have yet to be met, and yet we have far surpassed computer and robotics predictions.
Pegging TL8 and TL9 to real world future dates was always an error, much like a nuclear war in the year 2000 :)

To achieve TL8 we need fusion power (still twenty years off, and will be again in twenty years time), grav technology to build air/rafts and m-5 drives, and man portable laser weapons (getting there with vehicle mounted, and man portable designates could be used to blind but that is banned)

What I do is say anything you can buy on the interwebs is TL7, to allow for the range of stuff I have a fractional TL. I'm not fan of T5 or MgT allowing experimental devices a couple of TLs lower than standard. So I have the TL scale broken into fifths.
I am inclined to take the chart of pages 14 and 15 of Book 3 with a grain of salt. It tells me submersibles don't show up until TL6 and vacc suits and autocannon don't show up until TL8. I guess our astronauts today just hold their breath?

An alternate reading is that the devices are available at TL-1 but only to the military/government. That would explain all the TL 6 submarines used in WW2, and the autocannons that are pretty common on military aircraft. (And the GAU-8 on an A-10 is absolutely a classic example of a spinal mount). But while commercial submarines exist, and spacesuits are available on Ebay, but I can't forsee civilian autocannon.
 
To achieve TL8 we need fusion power (still twenty years off, and will be again in twenty years time)

Until it isn't, that is.

Sure, this could be an overhyped boondoggle (albeit a multi-billion dollar one), but this is a pretty high level announcement for something like that, and the group backing it is a spinoff of MIT, giving it a strong smell of legitimacy about it. Plus, their proof of concept reactor is reported to be just a year or two away from producing results, as well.

At any rate, it is an unavoidable fact that progress has been accelerating in this field for quite some time now (at least within the last decade) and, as The Economist recently pointed out, an increasing amount of the most recent developments in the field are being bankrolled by private industry, which is often a sign of something about to go parabolic -- or at least commercially viable.
 
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