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Robot PC's Max Terms

sinbadsam

SOC-12
OK I have searched here but have not yet found it.

For a Robot PC what is the max number of prior history terms that "it" can serve?

Assumption that it is only TL 15 and gets half the experience.

And yes it will not under go the effects aging in the normal sense of game play. But maintenance can be a pain at times.
 
Originally posted by atpollard:
750 terms (6000 years of History x half experience). ;)
*Throws Atpollard into a bathtub with a 6 live Ragfish*

Yes what you have is a possibility but the maintenance for that length of time?
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But think of the stories it could relate to current fellow adventurers...

"Boy I can tell you that back when I was just getting my wet ware wet...."


I was thinking of around 10 terms, why just a ball park number.
 
Starships have a 30 year mortgage, so they must last at least that long. Real world aircraft can remain operational for about 50 years. So a robotic "lifespan" of 30 to 50 years seems a reasonable upper limit (sure there are 100 year old cars still running, but not many).

Using 40 years as the typical robot lifespan (before it becomes more economical to transfer the programming or replace the body) that would agree with your proposed 10 term upper limit. On the other hand, maintaining a 40 year old robot could be like maintaining a stanley steamer for everyday use or creating replacement parts to keep your IBM 8086 PC up and running.

A simple 2d6 roll for the age of a PC robot in terms might work as a good rule of thumb. Just remember that all that experience at the upper end comes with a lot of custom maintainence expences to keep it running (or a new body upgrade complete with 30 years of regular bank payments).
 
Ok what kind of initial budget would you consider "reasonable" for a beginning Robot PC?

From tinkering with various designs, 500,000 to 1,000,000 Crimps is a typical range. Lower than that, not much of a robot/pc, above that is way too generous in my mind.
 
I am not familiar with the robot rules. Just for comparison, how much would it cost to build a robot equal to an average 18 year old human (all median stats, no special skills)?
 
Originally posted by atpollard:
I am not familiar with the robot rules. Just for comparison, how much would it cost to build a robot equal to an average 18 year old human (all median stats, no special skills)?
Hmm, it can only be done at TL 15, but depending upon some factors, anywhere from 400,000 to 750,000 Crimps.

But the Stats well, wisdom, constitution will be zero, charisma and social standing will be 1's, intelligence 13, education 6, dexterity 10 and Strength 10.
 
Due to the massive differences between lifeforms and robots, I would suggest that the prior history rules be amended for robots.

There are a number of ways you can do it. You can increase the years so that each term equals a decade. (robots lack ambition?)

You can introduce the Star Wars concept of periodic 'memory wipes', lest personality quirks begin to form. (the robot rules in SW D20 are pretty cool, I've found) This of course treats the robot as a piece of property.

Unlike lifeforms, who have to wait until they're 18 (or 14 in some cases) before they can begin prior history, there's no reason why a robot can't start immediately. Similarly to a service class, half the first term is spent getting it's basic education and experiences with people.

Having a list of all previous masters would also be opportune.

Any other ideas?
 
Seems one can build a "suitable" robot PC for under 1,000,000 Crimps.

For me, ten total terms is a good mix, gives the robot PC some skills, but not enough to tip the balance against the other players if they had gone ten total terms.

As for terms being a decade long? Only if the other PC's go thru periodic brain wipes also.;)Yes I know they can do it using drugs, and high speed lead injections to the cranium.;)

To me PC robots have skills, and the intelligence to use them, along the lines of travel they chose.

Yes having a wisdom of 0, social standing of 1 or 2, Charisma of a 1 or 2, means they do not get invited to attended Social Functions, have the manners of slightly retarded chimpanzee, and tend to not have much common sense about things. Hmm sounds kinda like some the the USN Sailors I sailed with.;)

Hmm Low AI and Full Verbal, using a robot brain from the Robots of Charted Space PDF, you can begin the game with a Int of 13 and education of a 6.
 
The problem with prior history is that it assumes there is a four year cycle when it comes to careers, which works well for lifeforms and in particular our frame of reference (I would say it would be long for us, it seems the cycle length of careers has shortened in our generation); at the end of each cycle, the person must either have been promoted, or convinced the higher-ups of his or her value to stay on for another four years, or they have to find a new job.

But is that applicable to a robot? If we go by classic stories that feature robots in them: let's choose Asimov and Star Wars.

In Asimov, robots are property. In the case of R. Daneel, he and other Spacer Robots are treated much better than on earth. Yet, do they go out into the Galaxy and work odd jobs? From memory, I seem to recall Daneel being indentured to a master (was it Gladia?). I have only seen the movie of Bicentenial Man, but in it Robin Williams' Robot character is basically the property of a kind and benevolent master, and stays with him for decades (until the master dies, and in his last act grants his Robot freedom... like a slave master would grant his slave, essentially).

With Star Wars, robots are almost always seen to have a purpose of some sort. Probe droids, combat droids, interrogation droids, etc. These don't exhibit any personality traits, they do their job and either leave or get destroyed by the heroes. However, we do have two robot characters, R2-D2 and C3PO. These two are quite a pair, but they've been more or less together for several decades. In that time, the number of their masters didn't change all that much. I think it went Anakin-Bail Organa-Luke, where it's stayed.

One thing about robots in SW is that they undergo periodic memory wipes to prevent quirks from forming (think of a the three laws as applied to a combat droid or an interrogation/torture droid). The longer a droid goes without a memory wipe, the more autonomous and independent-minded it will be. (note that Artoo never received a memory wipe throughout the whole saga, and he was far more rebellious and "I'm gonna go here, now" while Threepio was more of a nancy boy: "I've been told to sit here and that's what I'm gonna do - wait! Don't leave me artoo! Come back!!!")

So what does this imply? Well, the standard prior history rules say that a human or other lifeform starts his adult career at 18, in some cases 14 (Barbarian and Belter classes. I also house rule that the Noble, Rogue and Psionicist classes can start at 14 too). The first 14-18 years of their life is childhood, basic schooling, and formative years. How does that apply to a robot, who don't have the biological basis for childhood and so on?

Well, perhaps the first years of a robot's life is actually service to a particular master. Maybe two decades long. After that time, the Robot can spread it's wings and travel the galaxy and THEN begin having 4 year terms like a normal person. Thoughts?
 
Having a low to non existent social standing in a robot PC in the Imperium means to me several things.

It is treated as if it did not exist, conversations seem to ignore that the robot PC is there.

Most other sophonts would treat it like any other robot they have come across, ie "Take my bags bot brain""You are in my way metal piece of junk"

It will tend to get treated like a toaster, ignored when not needed, verbally abused when needed, by most not familiar with it.

As for length of terms greater than 4 years, the Aslan technically have that in game right now.

What will be the effect of having robot PC's have longer terms, not really that much at all.

Back to my original question, how many terms(4 or 10 years or what ever), is reasonable for a robot pc to go thru to generate skills? Due until TL17 robots are available, they get have the exp for a non robot pc.

So having them limited to the standard limit of 7 terms, puts them at a disadvantage to the other pcs in the number of skills. Ten terms give the robot pc the same of a non robot pc going thru 5 terms.

Yes robots do not go thru aging rolls, but getting some attributes above a 10 is a major pain in robot design or character building.
 
I would say there is no limit to the number of terms that a Robot can have. A Robot is effectively immortal as far as I am aware. If an Aslan can take 13 terms why can't a Robot? The limiting factor is the Robot takes half-XP, which means a 13 term prior history for a robot will not be the same as that for our Aslan example.
 
It's my personal belief that the limit on the number of terms should be whatever the max is for your campaign's organic lifeforms, for the sole purpose of making sure that the robot characters do not exceed the capabilities of the other characters. Who wants to play second fiddle to an animated toaster?

It's not the practical answer, but the answer designed to make the game more fun for ALL the players, not just the robot PC.

My opinion, anyway,
Flynn
 
Originally posted by Flynn:
It's my personal belief that the limit on the number of terms should be whatever the max is for your campaign's organic lifeforms, for the sole purpose of making sure that the robot characters do not exceed the capabilities of the other characters. Who wants to play second fiddle to an animated toaster?

It's not the practical answer, but the answer designed to make the game more fun for ALL the players, not just the robot PC.

My opinion, anyway,
Flynn
Agreed that is why I limited my test robot pc to 10 terms,, same as a full blood vilani, but not as much as a Aslan
 
Actually you do hit the point of diminishing returns for a normal character at around 5 terms. Since robots get half experience they would hit the same point at around 10 terms. The average Human won't go more than 6 terms. Since Robots get half xp I would let them go 14 terms. With that max I am guessing they would work out at about equal to a PC.

Since they advance slower, later, there is little incentive to play a robot in the first place, perhaps let them go 20 terms max. (Though there are few players that have the kind of patience to roll up 20 terms, and the chance of getting a very bad survival roll is getting up there long before you gt to this point.)
 
Survival mishaps only happen if you're a risktaker. You can take a hit to promotion, cash and XP rolls (if any) and lower the DC for survival rolls.
 
Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
(Though there are few players that have the kind of patience to roll up 20 terms, and the chance of getting a very bad survival roll is getting up there long before you gt to this point.)
I've played with a number of min/maxers who kept rolling and rolling and rolling. They typically push the envelope on the max terms, to get the highest levels (skill or character, depending on version) they can get. It's a short-sighted view, but in T20, character level usually means more than just skill levels, but increases in Stamina, saves, BAB, etc., so many imagine greater benefits. When fixated, the OCD Gamer will keep rolling terms until the dice, the rules or their Referee say stop. I would suggest that you do not consider human patience when determining a limitation on generating career terms, as it appears to be a factor above. (One of my gamers rolled 14 terms under Aslan for one of my games, having rolled a mandatory continuation on his 13th term.)

In addition, even prior history can be automated. It's not that hard to do, and to be honest, I'm surprised no one has done so already. With that, there is no human patience factor, when it would not take any more than a few clicks here and there to generate the character's prior career, anyway.

Hope this helps,
Flynn
 
A Robotic "bill of rights" would probably be the exception rather than the norm. A robot created for the military would be viewed like the BOLOS, an expensive and valuable piece of equipment ... but the property of the army. A robot built for a merchant ship would be viewed as part of the ship - it might be transfered to another ship if it outlived the ship, but it would not be allowed to resign and transfer to a rival corporation.

Part of the character generation process will include the story of how THIS PC robot became a free person. Perhaps he was retired as obsolete, but saved from recycling by a Tinkerer who rebuilt it and taught it to be an individual. Perhaps the ship was destroyed and the robot was "salvaged" from the wreakage by a free trader and serves as one of the crew. The character should create the story as part of the fun of making his PC unique.
 
Originally posted by stofsk:
Survival mishaps only happen if you're a risktaker. You can take a hit to promotion, cash and XP rolls (if any) and lower the DC for survival rolls.
A 1 is always a failure. Further giving up promotions and XP bonuses limits the usefulness of the term in the first place.
If you are only going to get 2000xp per term, then 20 terms is still only 40000xp, what is that about 10th level? Waste of time for no effect.
 
Originally posted by Flynn:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
(Though there are few players that have the kind of patience to roll up 20 terms, and the chance of getting a very bad survival roll is getting up there long before you gt to this point.)
I've played with a number of min/maxers who kept rolling and rolling and rolling. They typically push the envelope on the max terms, to get the highest levels (skill or character, depending on version) they can get. It's a short-sighted view, but in T20, character level usually means more than just skill levels, but increases in Stamina, saves, BAB, etc., so many imagine greater benefits. When fixated, the OCD Gamer will keep rolling terms until the dice, the rules or their Referee say stop. I would suggest that you do not consider human patience when determining a limitation on generating career terms, as it appears to be a factor above. (One of my gamers rolled 14 terms under Aslan for one of my games, having rolled a mandatory continuation on his 13th term.)

In addition, even prior history can be automated. It's not that hard to do, and to be honest, I'm surprised no one has done so already. With that, there is no human patience factor, when it would not take any more than a few clicks here and there to generate the character's prior career, anyway.

Hope this helps,
Flynn
</font>[/QUOTE]Yeah well Min-Maxers will always exist.
Regardless of game system. I have never seen anyone want to go that long, mostly because they are getting penalties for aging and not gaining any ground. For a human after about term 5 or 6 you are gaining no more than one level per two terms. A Robot because of the XP/2 will be gaining 1 level per 4 terms when they hit about 10 terms. And it only slows down from there. I think since the max a lifeform can go is 13 terms, a Robot, with its xp penalty should be allowed 14-20. They aren't going to gain levels as fast as the rest of the party after than point anyway. Lets say the majority of the party hits the point of diminishing returns at term 5 and musters out. The average party member will be in the 7th-10th level depending on classes chosen. The robot will take 10 terms to get to the same place. Once mustered out the Robot will gain levels half as fast as the rest of the party.

If you are going to put level limits on a Robot at least let them start at an equal level to one of those stubborn "want to get the most XP out of Prior History I can" players.


Which since an Aslan is 13 terms, perhaps 26 terms.


Your min-maxers won't play robots anyway, after all they don't advance once they get out of Prior history anyway.
 
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