Robot PC's Max Terms

[sinbadsam]

Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
<snip some stuff>
Your min-maxers won't play robots anyway, after all they don't advance once they get out of Prior history anyway.

Well look at this way, aging rolls never affect you, you are vehicle grade armor, so most small arms fire is not that dangerous. If you spend a few 10k's in credits, you can have nice vehicle grade armor, so even more weapons do not affect you.

A properly designed robot body, never needs a grav vehicle, it is one.

You will have better vision that the meat player even with the special goggles.

Your main stats str and dex can easily beyond the norms for most meat players. Yea your social and etiquette skills are lacking, but who argues with a Tank, or says the Tank is being a bore.

Negotiation via superior armor and firepower makes things "interesting".

You never have to sleep, never get tired as long the the power supply gets its fuel, most superficial damage just needs some "Bondo" and some paint.

Also you can have a cyberjack and use it a computer network.

But you will most likely be the "Designated Driver" when the "Meats" go out drinking too.

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by Sinbad Sam:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
<snip some stuff>
Your min-maxers won't play robots anyway, after all they don't advance once they get out of Prior history anyway.

Well look at this way, aging rolls never affect you, you are vehicle grade armor, so most small arms fire is not that dangerous. If you spend a few 10k's in credits, you can have nice vehicle grade armor, so even more weapons do not affect you.

A properly designed robot body, never needs a grav vehicle, it is one.

You will have better vision that the meat player even with the special goggles.

Your main stats str and dex can easily beyond the norms for most meat players. Yea your social and etiquette skills are lacking, but who argues with a Tank, or says the Tank is being a bore.

Negotiation via superior armor and firepower makes things "interesting".

You never have to sleep, never get tired as long the the power supply gets its fuel, most superficial damage just needs some "Bondo" and some paint.

Also you can have a cyberjack and use it a computer network.

But you will most likely be the "Designated Driver" when the "Meats" go out drinking too.

</font>[/QUOTE]But they still advance too slowly for the typical Min-Maxer. After a handful of adventures when the players are doing everything better the Robot player is still doing things the same way. That doesn't appeal to the typical min-maxer.

Also remember that the Robot character will have a difficult time getting repaired any place with a TL under 15. (That even includes a TL15 version of Bondo.

)

 

[sgbrown]

Originally posted by atpollard:
-clip-

Part of the character generation process will include the story of how THIS PC robot became a free person. Perhaps he was retired as obsolete, but saved from recycling by a Tinkerer who rebuilt it and taught it to be an individual. Perhaps the ship was destroyed and the robot was "salvaged" from the wreakage by a free trader and serves as one of the crew. The character should create the story as part of the fun of making his PC unique.

AT has hit on one of my favorite things about traveller - the character starts out with character!

Why not allow unlimited terms but impose a limit the the skill level and number of starting skills the robot can have.

Something along the order of TL15 can only produce robots capable at skill level 10 (or 8 or 12 haven't considered the right number for this yet) - and no more. Maximum number of skills dependent on memory space.

Then to keep from always having a maxed out robot and allow some player development, let the GM determine the maximum number and level of starting skills (maybe even with a slight bonus for inventive storyline in character development) then let the robot develop up to the TL max usnig 1/2 experience (and maybe a memory update or two.)

 

[mbrinkhues]

If you go by the OTU Imperial/Aslan/Solomanie/Zhodanie/Vagr/Droyne/Kkree Robots have some very nice limits:

+ Until TL-15 you can not build a bot that can pass as a human. Even at TL-15 the so called Pseudo-Bios are rare. This limits the age of Non-Ancient Robots to a few decades

+ TL14 robots can be smart but they are more along the lines of a T800 Combat chassis or a C3-series Human/Robot liasion system than a human. With all the problems that those nonhumans have

 

[veltyen]

Why not allow unlimited terms but impose a limit the the skill level and number of starting skills the robot can have.

Depending on the type of computer the AI is built around there is already a limit of how large a skill program can be. Depending on how you've read the AI description that could be a limit on starting skills, but I don't see a reason to discard it after creation.

In an installation that would be all available skills at rank 20+. In a mobile chasis (even a large one like a bolo/grav tank) that limitation becomes more noticeable. In a human sized robotic chasis this could be crippling.

That limit is around a rating M3 ( 81 vl - slightly smaller then human sized) at TL13 without miniaturisation.

 

[sinbadsam]

Originally posted by veltyen:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Why not allow unlimited terms but impose a limit the the skill level and number of starting skills the robot can have.

Depending on the type of computer the AI is built around there is already a limit of how large a skill program can be. Depending on how you've read the AI description that could be a limit on starting skills, but I don't see a reason to discard it after creation.

In an installation that would be all available skills at rank 20+. In a mobile chasis (even a large one like a bolo/grav tank) that limitation becomes more noticeable. In a human sized robotic chasis this could be crippling.

That limit is around a rating M3 ( 81 vl - slightly smaller then human sized) at TL13 without miniaturisation. </font>[/QUOTE]Well gents you may wish refresh yourselves with the robots as player characters in Robots of Chartered Space, then, once the robot pc begins generation/prior history, the skill limits based on programing etc, are no longer used.

So I designed a robot with the TL 15 robot brain, he had several skills greater 10.

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by Michael Brinkhues:
If you go by the OTU Imperial/Aslan/Solomanie/Zhodanie/Vagr/Droyne/Kkree Robots have some very nice limits:

+ Until TL-15 you can not build a bot that can pass as a human. Even at TL-15 the so called Pseudo-Bios are rare. This limits the age of Non-Ancient Robots to a few decades

+ TL14 robots can be smart but they are more along the lines of a T800 Combat chassis or a C3-series Human/Robot liasion system than a human. With all the problems that those nonhumans have

Well that depends on when your Traveller campaign is taking place. In Gateway Domain in 993 there are several TL15 worlds to choose from to have a Robot built. In 1105 TL15 is a mature Imperial Tech Level. (TL15 starships are considered obsolete and being retired.) A TL16 Robot was possible 2026 years before 1105 (Darrian TL 16 is that long ago.)

 

[mbrinkhues]

You are sure about TL15 in Gateway and TL15 mature in 1105?

MT Referee's Compendium lists the 3I as "TL15 with an occasional TL16" (Page 25) as do the techcharts on P27/28. Pg 35 states under robots "The majority of the worlds in the 3I are below TL15 in local manufacturing technologies" and gives costs for a PseudoBio at 12 Millions

Starships (set in the Gateway Timeline) gives TL15 as "emerging technologie" and lists no TL15 crafts at all

At least one scenario set in Gateway has an "experimental RAMADA re-fit with some TL15 gear"

Shattered ships list no TL16 ships. There are some experimental TL16 weapons in IIRC Survival Margin

Darrian has a VERY limited TL16 production capacity limited to a few ship types and gadgets. Carefully hoarded an not for civilians (Behind the Claw, Humanity). Even in 1201 the Regency has a very limited TL16 capacity (Regency Sourcebook)

Where do you get the notice that TL15 ships are phased out? One class of TL15 ships is being phased out in GT (Korriak)

Challenge 60 has a TL15 class designed during the 5th frontier war (Piranha Light Cruiser) and two more (Yatagahan, Iolaire) introduced within 2-10 years before it

 

[stofsk]

Ley sector circa 993 (ie out of the GtD sourcebook) has a single TL F system, which happens to be Gashuki, where the mysterious Hivers no doubt plot and scheme.

As far as house rules go, I always treat the TL range in a UWP as the mainworld's local sustainable technology base. A mainworld could have gadgets and gizmos that have been imported, but they don't have the kind of infrastructure set up to sustain it should imports cease. Thank Christ that'll never happen! (what's this Long Night you speak of?)

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by Michael Brinkhues:
You are sure about TL15 in Gateway and TL15 mature in 1105?

Yes, I am.

MT Referee's Compendium lists the 3I as "TL15 with an occasional TL16" (Page 25) as do the techcharts on P27/28. Pg 35 states under robots "The majority of the worlds in the 3I are below TL15 in local manufacturing technologies" and gives costs for a PseudoBio at 12 Millions

So in the Early 1100s the 3I is listed as Tl15 with occasional TL16.

Starships (set in the Gateway Timeline) gives TL15 as "emerging technologie" and lists no TL15 crafts at all.

I never stated that the 993 era had TL15 as standard, I said available. Alphaaric, ALUUDI, AMUKHAN, Archipelago, Eda, Factory Rock, are all TLF+. Of course This is all in a border region and the Core of the Imperium and older districts are generally at a higher level.

At least one scenario set in Gateway has an "experimental RAMADA re-fit with some TL15 gear"

Shattered ships list no TL16 ships. There are some experimental TL16 weapons in IIRC Survival Margin

Darrian has a VERY limited TL16 production capacity limited to a few ship types and gadgets. Carefully hoarded an not for civilians (Behind the Claw, Humanity). Even in 1201 the Regency has a very limited TL16 capacity (Regency Sourcebook)

In the 1100's Darria has virtually no TL16 production facilities. However 2026 years before the 1100s Darria was a mature TL16 society. Quite a bit survived to the 1100's including at least two Naval Task Forces.

Where do you get the notice that TL15 ships are phased out? One class of TL15 ships is being phased out in GT (Korriak)

Both the Kokirrak and the Atlantic are listed in Supplement 7 as obsolete and being retired. Supplement 5 lists the AHL as retired for about 80 years before a handful were reinstated and retrofitted.

Challenge 60 has a TL15 class designed during the 5th frontier war (Piranha Light Cruiser) and two more (Yatagahan, Iolaire) introduced within 2-10 years before it

I never said that TL15 ships weren't still being built. But older TL15 ships were being replaced by newer ones. That implies a mature TL15 capability as opposed to brand new by the early 1100's.

 

[mbrinkhues]

A Darrian Robot would need to:

+ Survive the Maghiz (Solar Eruption) that effects all Darian worlds
+ Be considered worth to maintain with the few resources of TL13 left or be stored and considerd worth re-activating
+ Survive more than 2000 years

Not very likely IMHO

As for "mature" TL15, the worlds do exist and the 3I has quite a few but there are not enough around to call the 3I TL15. Even in Sectors like Diaspora and old Expanses there are some TL15 with more low-tech worlds surrounding them

 

[parmasson]

Glancing at the thread I did not see the Book 8 limitation.
Book 8 puts the life of a TL-15 robot at around 85 years. I assume this is the point where repairs and brain might start breaking down. Perhaps the synaptic processors can only last so long?