Sacnoth Ríkisstjórn-Vopn Verksmiðju, Ohf. ('Guns')
- Thread starter Meteoric Assault
- Start date
Thanks for the link.
NP... enjoy, IMHO there are a few details that need to be fixed in the design matrix, but it is very easy to do on your own.
epicenter00
SOC-13
Gun pendant question:
From the design of your caseless rounds, wouldn't curved magazines would be counter-productive as they're straight cylinders? IIRC, modern ammunition is fed that way because the bullets are smaller than the powder case so you curve the magazine.
From the design of your caseless rounds, wouldn't curved magazines would be counter-productive as they're straight cylinders? IIRC, modern ammunition is fed that way because the bullets are smaller than the powder case so you curve the magazine.
With regards to the curved magazines and such ... artistic license. maybe the problem was solved in the IMTU at Tech level 11 &12.
Well, by definition, if it is firing a rifle caliber, it's not an SMG: it's just a really short full-auto carbine that wastes a lot of its powder burning in beautiful, big fireball muzzle flashes.
There's always an optimum barrel length for a given round's internal ballistics. That's why the M4, when firing true M16 rounds, loses about 16% of its energy at the muzzle.
As far as a "long enough for an LMG" barrel, for the same reason, usually SAW barrels are close to the same length as the optimal rifle length. A heavier barrel absorbs more heat from sustained fire. In modern parlance, SAW and LMG are essentially synonymous. The ability to mount on a tripod, and to change the barrel are what I would say determines which "SAW's" would also qualify as LMG's.
11 years in service elite infantry formations .... and I have never seen a SAW on a tripod. 240's and M60s yes... SAW no.
The colt commando was classified as a submachine gun during Vietnam and it fired 5.56mm, albeit subjective classification.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
I forgot to share I used the fan created Book 10 (Ordinance and Armory) to Stat out these weapons. I have seen a few errors that work would need to be corrected, but it is a great matrix.
The Plasma Anti-Armor RAM Grenade is the 'got battledress' answer... Traveller Murphy Law " there is always a low tech antidote for high tech invincibility."
This is a topic of some discussion in the CT forum re: Striker and what BD values should be. Heck even recoilless rifles will pop a BD suit.
with a shape charged warhead yes...
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Squee!
Oh heck its got design your martial art, I had a system for that!
Also nice on the armor rigid vs. flexible, I was coming to grips with that just now with the Striker discussion.
Striker is a heavy drill down miniatures game... the vehicle design is .. anyway I found a better vehicle design the fits very nicely with the CT method of doing things.
BadSneakers
SOC-4
Original author of the Armory and Ordnance handbook here. Glad to see it in use! Some very cool designs and your artwork is reminiscent of the old David Dietrick artwork.
I'd love to hear your feedback on the details that need to be corrected; it's been a while since I worked up the tables and there are bound to be a few corrections. (Such as the typo in the title.
Nice job!
I'd love to hear your feedback on the details that need to be corrected; it's been a while since I worked up the tables and there are bound to be a few corrections. (Such as the typo in the title.
Nice job!
Apologies for the thread necromancy, but just saw this. No pun intended.
I agree, I have never seen the SAW on a tripod, and seldom carried with the extra barrel. I have been signed for a lot of SAW's in my AC and RC time. That said, if you lacked MMG/GPMG's, or the rounds for them (you never did, and I never did!), our SAW could be pushed into the role of an LMG. Not a great idea, but better than some expedients. The M16A1 with bipod and "extra ammo" never could. That is the technical distinction.
Whoever called a CAR-15 an "SMG" probably did not know or care any better; at the risk of going ad hominen, he was probably related to the the guy who designated the M16A1 as a SAW, and the people who call magazines clips, and semi-auto AR's "assault rifles."
Just saying....
Considering that the CAR-15 was replacing an SMG in the inventory and deployment, it's not uncommon to see 'nam era references to it as an SMG.Apologies for the thread necromancy, but just saw this. No pun intended.
I agree, I have never seen the SAW on a tripod, and seldom carried with the extra barrel. I have been signed for a lot of SAW's in my AC and RC time. That said, if you lacked MMG/GPMG's, or the rounds for them (you never did, and I never did!), our SAW could be pushed into the role of an LMG. Not a great idea, but better than some expedients. The M16A1 with bipod and "extra ammo" never could. That is the technical distinction.
Whoever called a CAR-15 an "SMG" probably did not know or care any better; at the risk of going ad hominen, he was probably related to the the guy who designated the M16A1 as a SAW, and the people who call magazines clips, and semi-auto AR's "assault rifles."
Just saying....
Thanks Will
I was of the impression that the CAR-15 was designed for Special Forces, to replace M-16's, not for tankers and M88 crewmen and the like, to replace Grease Guns (which pre- and post-dated its employment).
That being said, the Army does not always replace like with like. When the M3A1 SMG's were taken from the tankers in the '80's, they were not replaced with the MP5 SMG's that were issued to some units in SOCOM, but with M16 rifles and M9 pistols.
The U.S. Army did classify the CAR-15 (officially the XM-177 and XM-177E2) as a "submachinegun," presumably based on barrel length, 10 to 11 inches. I am unaware of any SMG's that were removed from the inventory or the MTOE's to be replaced by the CAR's, however, but am open to being informed. Of course the Army does contradict itself a lot.
There were 3 barrel lengths. M-16/AR-15/CAR-15 Rifle, CAR-15 Carbine, and XM-177 SMG.
The Colt model 610 was the 10" barrel, collapsing stock. Special Forces weapon. The Army dubbed it the XM-177, the airforce the GAU/5A. The Model 629 and 649 are the XM-177E1 and XM-177E2, with the 11", according to http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=39
I've seen photos of it in use by tank crews during 'Nam - in the possession of the guy in the photo. These guys were draftees. Their sergeant had a Thompson... I suspect the issue may have been "Basic on M16's, so the XM-177 is nigh identical..." Hell, knowing the tankers in question, they may have hung onto dead spec-ops guys' gear.
http://www.forcerecon.com/strongmenarmed3.htm notes that the Marine 1st ForceRecon Company still has 35 in inventory...
Note also - the Current M4 carbine/submachinegun line is actually the continuation of the XM-177 line. The original M4 of 1983 is the XM-177e3 proposal with a few tweaks the USMC asked for.
https://www.cybershooters.org/?page_id=540 gives more on that. The M4A2 (which would be the XM-177e5, in essence) is replacing MP5P's in armor units and M16's in force recon...
Stoner's weapon system lives on...
Also remember: ANY weapon with a leading X in the US Army inventory is "Experimental" or "Field Trial" - it's not an official replacement for the TOE weapons; it's a "Here, try this"... Any tankers who had it would still have, stored somewhere, their M3 or Thompson (M1).
