Salvage Rights

[Dulinor]

Let's say that a bunch of PCs just happened to discover a lost ship in the far reaches of a system.
If they just pick up everything that's not nailed down and let the wreck where they found it, there won't be any problem (except if one of these "relics" is clearly recognizable). But what will happen if they want to refit the hulk and get a "free" new (err, used) ship?
I don't remember the 3I laws concerning shipwrecks and lost ships being described somewhere in canon. So, would the PCs become the new legitimate owners of their find, or is it still property of its previous owner(s) (or their heir(s))?

 

[McPerth]

I'd say similar laws than for "freed pirate's prizes" would be applied. First it must be stated if there is a legitimate owner (probably an insurance firm that has already paid it). If so, probably the slavagers will get a reward and hte hulk will revert to them.

If not, then they will probably be able to keep it, but als othey will probably had to pay some kind of register fee, aside from any repairs needed.

And see that, due to communications lag, the search for a legitimate owner is likely to take months at best...

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I have no idea of any canon information about this.

Anything found in deep space would fall under Imperial jurisdiction, but anything found near or on an inhabited planet would fall under local jurisdiction, with any of 11000 different legal systems.


I would assume that anything vaguely resembling an Ancient or alien artefact belongs to the Emperor. A reward seems likely.

If the original owners, or the insurance company, can be traced, the derelict probably belongs to them. The players might be entitled to a salvage fee. Even taking anything from the wreck is probably theft.

 

[mike wightman]

In the original JTAS adventure version of Annic Nova the ship can be claimed as salvage by the players provided they pay a Cr100,000 registration fee to the Imperial authorities.
This is repeated in the DA version of the adventure.

Have to hunt out where I have downloaded the MgT S&P version of the adventure to see what it says there...

and yup, exactly the same text:

Free Trader (Non-Standard Classified Type NS18): Using an unorthodox 600 ton frame and hull, this artefact is allowed in Imperial commerce
under the salvage laws provided the ship is registered with Imperial authorities (typical registration fee: Cr. 100,000).

So it appears you can claim the rights to an abandoned ship provided you pay the Imperium a finders fee.

 

[whartung]

It's also a matter of how formalized such salvage is within the society.

Consider the entire repossession industry. I have no idea how they're compensated. Is there any "freelance" salvage here on Earth currently? Outside of people collecting cans on the street? In the US we don't really have a big problem of folks just leaving vehicle and boats places. If anything, they end up being handled by the authorities (towed, then, eventually auctioned for fines if nothing else).

Is there some statute of limitations in terms of ownership, or is it simply finders keepers as long as a best effort was put in to locating the owner? Again, with modern vehicles, we have vehicle ID and ubiquitous registration.

In Aliens, its implied that there is a first class concept of salvage. But was that simply a finders fee paid by an insurance company? Is the insurance company obligated to pay that fee? What is that fee? percentage of the items value, fixed fee?

I guess the insurance company (or whoever the owner is) gets first right of refusal.

But, in Traveller, what if the "owner" is a year away in terms of transit to notify them? Does that play in to it? Or is simply listing it on a Well Known Salvage Finders registry enough to let someone come and claim it. "Must list any found salvage on the Imperial Registry, from which the owners have a year from the post date to make a claim" Is that unreasonable?

Banks can have a formal system of "registering interest" in a missing ship. So a bank in Regina can log in to the formal, imperial system, that they're looking for ship #1234. And then the registry can be used to lay claim to any salvage, even without the bank being notified. That way a ship on the opposite side of its owner doesn't get freed up simply because of time lag.

Which is a curious question, what is the longest round trip message time within Imperial borders via X-Boat Jump 4 routes?

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Marine salvage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_salvage) is governed by an international treaty (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Convention_on_Salvage). Basically you get a reward for the property you rescue, but the original owner retains ownership, if I understand it correctly.

Which is a curious question, what is the longest round trip message time within Imperial borders via X-Boat Jump 4 routes?

From the rimward tip of the domain of Deneb (in Tobia subsector) to the Solomani border (Koz) is about 80 J-4 according to TravellerMap. Since there is no guarantee that the X-Boat system is perfectly aligned for your needs the longest route might be 80-85 weeks, with another few weeks for the last few jumps beyond the X-Boat system, so a route might be up to 90 weeks one-way.

 

[kilemall]

I would take guidance from the AN rules MW just quoted, sounds pretty standard across OTUs.

For an IMTU, I would tend to go with current international salvage law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_salvage

 

[whartung]

I would take guidance from the AN rules MW just quoted, sounds pretty standard across OTUs.

For an IMTU, I would tend to go with current international salvage law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_salvage

Curiously, this talks more to an almost rescue operation, than a recovery operation.

For example, coming to and rendering aid to a sinking ship (a ship "in peril") sounds more like salvage in contrast to raising (or simply looting) a sunken ship (which is what I've more considered salvage to be).

The criteria for a successful salvage claim:

The vessel must be in peril, which is defined broadly. The person rendering aid (the "salvor") must be acting voluntarily and under no pre-existing contract. Finally, the salvor must be successful in his efforts, though payment for partial success can be granted in certain circumstances.

They talk in the wiki article about danger need no be immediate, for example is seems that removing the the oil or fuel from a sunken ship, in order to prevent "environmental damage", would be considered a proper salvage operation. Perhaps removing a ship from a shipping lane, where it poses as a navigation hazard, may be considered salvage.

Notably, the guys out there digging up doubloons from ancient wrecks is not salvage, as there's no danger. That's treasure hunting, and seems to fall under a different body of law.

So, finding a lost Scout Ship, nose up in a swamp on a distant world -- probably not salvage under these criteria.

 

[LeperColony]

The Imperium claims to rule the "space between the stars." So salvage rights may vary depending where the lost ship is found. There may be local v Imperial law issues.