Sandcasters.... How do they WORK?

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by Joseph Kimball:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Anyone else notice that in CT a 400t spaceship hull is half the price of a starship hull <snip>

Please give the reference please! As far as I've ever read in B2 or HG a hull is the same price whether the ship will have a jump drive or not. </font>[/QUOTE]It's another of the things that changed between the original version of CT and the revised edition.
The rule is to be found in first edition LBB2 on page 17, and actually halves the cost of the entire 100t+ space ship, not just its hull.

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by Joseph Kimball:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Anyone else notice that in CT a 400t spaceship hull is half the price of a starship hull <snip>

Please give the reference please! As far as I've ever read in B2 or HG a hull is the same price whether the ship will have a jump drive or not. </font>[/QUOTE]It's another of the things that changed between the original version of CT and the revised edition.
The rule is to be found in first edition LBB2 on page 17, and actually halves the cost of the entire 100t+ space ship, not just its hull.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
A fair point, and the auto crits from weapon battery size/spinals should count too.

Note that the rule does take into account (MT system) critical hull hits...that point #1 in the rule. Critical hull hits automatically make your jump attempt high risk.

This is pretty easy to play with Book 2 CT combat, btw. Any critical hit has to go through the hull, right? So, any critical hit thrown damages the hull grid enough that making a jump is high risk.

I guess you could come up with a house rule to consider weapon battery size/spinals (not a bad idea...I'd probably go with the Book 5 rule where if the weapon code is bigger than the target code, the target is destroyed...or something like that).

The second rule in the quote above is too cumbersome in play, it would be easier to include a hull grid hit on the damage table IMHO.

It is?

I think it's pretty simple.

A 100 ton vessel can take 10 hits. A 200 ton vessel can take 20 hull hits. A 300 ton vessel can take 30 hull hits. A 400 ton vessel can take 40 hull hits.

etc...

What's so hard about that?

There's really no figuring involved. If you've got a 800 ton Mercenary Crusier, and you've taken no where near 80 hull hits, then don't worry about it. There's nothing to figure. Your jump grid will hold, and you'll jump normally.


-----------------------------

HIGH RISK JUMP

If you're using the MT task system, then you can just use the rule out of the book for the jump task (or, even adapt it to the UGM).

Or, a quick and easy rule from CT would be...

Consider the Misjump rule (Misjump on a 13+), and simply use a +1DM for each point of hull damage over allotted amount.

For example, you've got a 400 ton ship, and you've taken 45 hull hits....you'll throw for misjump with a +5 modifier.

You're in a 100 ton Type S, and you've taken 11 hull hits....you'll throw for misjump, 13+ with a +1DM.

I think that's all pretty easy.


Also, note that, on vessels of any size, the jump grid calculation will hardly ever be consulted because, after 40 hits on a 400 ton vessel, chances are that it's either destroyed or disabled in other ways (Fuel hits, Drives out, Computer down, PP destroyed, etc...)

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
A fair point, and the auto crits from weapon battery size/spinals should count too.

Note that the rule does take into account (MT system) critical hull hits...that point #1 in the rule. Critical hull hits automatically make your jump attempt high risk.

This is pretty easy to play with Book 2 CT combat, btw. Any critical hit has to go through the hull, right? So, any critical hit thrown damages the hull grid enough that making a jump is high risk.

I guess you could come up with a house rule to consider weapon battery size/spinals (not a bad idea...I'd probably go with the Book 5 rule where if the weapon code is bigger than the target code, the target is destroyed...or something like that).

The second rule in the quote above is too cumbersome in play, it would be easier to include a hull grid hit on the damage table IMHO.

It is?

I think it's pretty simple.

A 100 ton vessel can take 10 hits. A 200 ton vessel can take 20 hull hits. A 300 ton vessel can take 30 hull hits. A 400 ton vessel can take 40 hull hits.

etc...

What's so hard about that?

There's really no figuring involved. If you've got a 800 ton Mercenary Crusier, and you've taken no where near 80 hull hits, then don't worry about it. There's nothing to figure. Your jump grid will hold, and you'll jump normally.


-----------------------------

HIGH RISK JUMP

If you're using the MT task system, then you can just use the rule out of the book for the jump task (or, even adapt it to the UGM).

Or, a quick and easy rule from CT would be...

Consider the Misjump rule (Misjump on a 13+), and simply use a +1DM for each point of hull damage over allotted amount.

For example, you've got a 400 ton ship, and you've taken 45 hull hits....you'll throw for misjump with a +5 modifier.

You're in a 100 ton Type S, and you've taken 11 hull hits....you'll throw for misjump, 13+ with a +1DM.

I think that's all pretty easy.


Also, note that, on vessels of any size, the jump grid calculation will hardly ever be consulted because, after 40 hits on a 400 ton vessel, chances are that it's either destroyed or disabled in other ways (Fuel hits, Drives out, Computer down, PP destroyed, etc...)

 

[Supplement Four]

Sig, btw...

I find the table on pg. 65 of the SOM damn handy...the one where you can randomly throw damage on a ship system.

I use this for miscellaneous damage after a fight.

See, I figure that not all damage on a ship happens immediately. Maybe something is damaged just enough to go out later.

I'll give you an example of how I use that table.

Let's say you're in a 400 ton ship, and you went through a space combat encounter. You defeated your enemy.

Let's also say that, of all the damage you took during the fight, 3 hits landed on the hull (hit locations 6 and 7 on the damage chart in CT).

I'll throw on the table on page 65 three times--once for each hull hit.

Let's say I rolled 7, 9, and 4. That's damage to (7) Access; (9) Fuel; and (4) Flight controls.

Then, I'll simply look at the spec charts in the SOM for those appropriate systems.

I might determine something like this:

(Access): The outer airlock hatch on the port side is damaged and won't open.

(Fuel): The fuel pump with the starboard purfication plant is damaged (requireing twice as long to purify fuel), and I'm rolling 2D to determine when it will go out all-together.

(Flight Controls): The pilot's board blinks out for just a moment. The entire board. Dead. Then alive again. (That should scare the bejebbies out of the players--we'll have fun with that one.)


Anyway, you get the idea. I use the number of hull hits obtained in Book 2 space combat, and the chart on page 65 of the SOM, to help me create secondary and minor damage to the ship. These things may show up a week later, after the battle. These keep the PCs busy taking care of their ship. They'll spend money in ports, trying to get parts. Sometimes, I use this stuff as the "pull" of an adventure, as the characters wait for a part to arrive or search a junkyard near the starport...or even if I want to give 'em a misjump.

It's just good color for the game, and it reminds the players that combat is expensive and can really hit them in thier pocket books.

Combat is not always tidy and neat and over once the fighting stops. Sometimes there's an untidy price to pay afterwards.

The SOM lends itself to creating stuff like this.

 

[Supplement Four]

Sig, btw...

I find the table on pg. 65 of the SOM damn handy...the one where you can randomly throw damage on a ship system.

I use this for miscellaneous damage after a fight.

See, I figure that not all damage on a ship happens immediately. Maybe something is damaged just enough to go out later.

I'll give you an example of how I use that table.

Let's say you're in a 400 ton ship, and you went through a space combat encounter. You defeated your enemy.

Let's also say that, of all the damage you took during the fight, 3 hits landed on the hull (hit locations 6 and 7 on the damage chart in CT).

I'll throw on the table on page 65 three times--once for each hull hit.

Let's say I rolled 7, 9, and 4. That's damage to (7) Access; (9) Fuel; and (4) Flight controls.

Then, I'll simply look at the spec charts in the SOM for those appropriate systems.

I might determine something like this:

(Access): The outer airlock hatch on the port side is damaged and won't open.

(Fuel): The fuel pump with the starboard purfication plant is damaged (requireing twice as long to purify fuel), and I'm rolling 2D to determine when it will go out all-together.

(Flight Controls): The pilot's board blinks out for just a moment. The entire board. Dead. Then alive again. (That should scare the bejebbies out of the players--we'll have fun with that one.)


Anyway, you get the idea. I use the number of hull hits obtained in Book 2 space combat, and the chart on page 65 of the SOM, to help me create secondary and minor damage to the ship. These things may show up a week later, after the battle. These keep the PCs busy taking care of their ship. They'll spend money in ports, trying to get parts. Sometimes, I use this stuff as the "pull" of an adventure, as the characters wait for a part to arrive or search a junkyard near the starport...or even if I want to give 'em a misjump.

It's just good color for the game, and it reminds the players that combat is expensive and can really hit them in thier pocket books.

Combat is not always tidy and neat and over once the fighting stops. Sometimes there's an untidy price to pay afterwards.

The SOM lends itself to creating stuff like this.

 

[mike wightman]

That's a pretty good idea - it's a bit like translating characteristic damage into real wound descriptions.

I like it

 

[mike wightman]

That's a pretty good idea - it's a bit like translating characteristic damage into real wound descriptions.

I like it

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by WJP:
It is?

I think it's pretty simple.

A 100 ton vessel can take 10 hits. A 200 ton vessel can take 20 hull hits. A 300 ton vessel can take 30 hull hits. A 400 ton vessel can take 40 hull hits.

etc...

What's so hard about that?

There's really no figuring involved. If you've got a 800 ton Mercenary Crusier, and you've taken no where near 80 hull hits, then don't worry about it. There's nothing to figure. Your jump grid will hold, and you'll jump normally.

You're in a 100 ton Type S, and you've taken 11 hull hits....you'll throw for misjump, 13+ with a +1DM.

I think that's all pretty easy.

Put like that, I agree.

I think I was looking at it in an overly complicated way - just adding a hull hits line to your ship data card is pretty easy (and makes all of those hull hits eventually count for something).

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by WJP:
It is?

I think it's pretty simple.

A 100 ton vessel can take 10 hits. A 200 ton vessel can take 20 hull hits. A 300 ton vessel can take 30 hull hits. A 400 ton vessel can take 40 hull hits.

etc...

What's so hard about that?

There's really no figuring involved. If you've got a 800 ton Mercenary Crusier, and you've taken no where near 80 hull hits, then don't worry about it. There's nothing to figure. Your jump grid will hold, and you'll jump normally.

You're in a 100 ton Type S, and you've taken 11 hull hits....you'll throw for misjump, 13+ with a +1DM.

I think that's all pretty easy.

Put like that, I agree.

I think I was looking at it in an overly complicated way - just adding a hull hits line to your ship data card is pretty easy (and makes all of those hull hits eventually count for something).

 

[mike wightman]

HIGH RISK JUMP

Or, a quick and easy rule from CT would be...

Consider the Misjump rule (Misjump on a 13+), and simply use a +1DM for each point of hull damage over allotted amount.

For example, you've got a 400 ton ship, and you've taken 45 hull hits....you'll throw for misjump with a +5 modifier.

I wouldn't increase the DM for a misjump for every point over the hull hits limit - far too severe IMHO.

 

[mike wightman]

HIGH RISK JUMP

Or, a quick and easy rule from CT would be...

Consider the Misjump rule (Misjump on a 13+), and simply use a +1DM for each point of hull damage over allotted amount.

For example, you've got a 400 ton ship, and you've taken 45 hull hits....you'll throw for misjump with a +5 modifier.

I wouldn't increase the DM for a misjump for every point over the hull hits limit - far too severe IMHO.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
That's a pretty godd idea - it's a bit like translating characteristic damage into real wound descriptions.

I like it

It's kinda fun to continually have something go wrong with "the old rust bucket" too.

As soon as the players get one thing fixed...yep, it's like getting your tax return and then have something major on your car go out...

You can keep 'em busy with that one.

Knock off an antenna and say they can't use their tight beam comm anymore. Then (if you're using the sensor rules), they're all of a sudden considered "active" if they use broadcast radio.

Unknown to them, have the transponder malfunction. Then, have them boarded by customs, and when the transponder log is checked, the naval officer finds that it's been blanked--no record of the ship's prior dealings (the blanking typically happens if the black box is messed with). The characters have no idea how that could have happened, but the naval officer is accusing them of tampering with the transponder--which is a pretty bad offense...

The SOM spec charts are full of ideas like this if you look at them the right way.

I just love that freakin' book.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
That's a pretty godd idea - it's a bit like translating characteristic damage into real wound descriptions.

I like it

It's kinda fun to continually have something go wrong with "the old rust bucket" too.

As soon as the players get one thing fixed...yep, it's like getting your tax return and then have something major on your car go out...

You can keep 'em busy with that one.

Knock off an antenna and say they can't use their tight beam comm anymore. Then (if you're using the sensor rules), they're all of a sudden considered "active" if they use broadcast radio.

Unknown to them, have the transponder malfunction. Then, have them boarded by customs, and when the transponder log is checked, the naval officer finds that it's been blanked--no record of the ship's prior dealings (the blanking typically happens if the black box is messed with). The characters have no idea how that could have happened, but the naval officer is accusing them of tampering with the transponder--which is a pretty bad offense...

The SOM spec charts are full of ideas like this if you look at them the right way.

I just love that freakin' book.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
I think I was looking at it in an overly complicated way - just adding a hull hits line to your ship data card is pretty easy (and makes all of those hull hits eventually count for something).

Absolutely. That's what I do. If the players don't get the hull fixed (i.e. they're out of money), then the hull hits accumulate (and really make the ship look beat-up too!)

This is really no different than keeping track of the computer hits (if they don't get the computer fixed, then it's still got that nasty modifier attached to it from the Book 2 damage charts).

When they try to fix the hull grid/hits, I just use the Repair rule on page 78 of the TB. The PC's can try to fix it themselves, or they can plop down into a Class A or B starport to get the damage fixed.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
I think I was looking at it in an overly complicated way - just adding a hull hits line to your ship data card is pretty easy (and makes all of those hull hits eventually count for something).

Absolutely. That's what I do. If the players don't get the hull fixed (i.e. they're out of money), then the hull hits accumulate (and really make the ship look beat-up too!)

This is really no different than keeping track of the computer hits (if they don't get the computer fixed, then it's still got that nasty modifier attached to it from the Book 2 damage charts).

When they try to fix the hull grid/hits, I just use the Repair rule on page 78 of the TB. The PC's can try to fix it themselves, or they can plop down into a Class A or B starport to get the damage fixed.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
I wouldn't increase the DM for a misjump for every point over the hull hits limit - far too severe IMHO.

That's probably because you don't use the hull grid in your TU, and ships in my TU have them.

I see your point, though.

How about this...

+1DM for Misjump for every multiple of allotted hull grid damage.

For example: on a 100 ton Type S, every 10 hull hits (starting at number 11) requires a +1DM for Misjump.

So, at 13 hull hits, the Type S would have a +1DM. At 27 hull hits, it would have a +2DM. At 32 hull hits, it would have a +3DM, etc.

Same thing goes for the 400 toner. 41-80 hull hits = +1DM. 81-120 hull hits = +2DM. 121-160 hull hits = +3DM.


That sounds a little more fair, doesn't it. Thanks for pointing that out. I just scribbled it down and changed it in my notes.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
I wouldn't increase the DM for a misjump for every point over the hull hits limit - far too severe IMHO.

That's probably because you don't use the hull grid in your TU, and ships in my TU have them.

I see your point, though.

How about this...

+1DM for Misjump for every multiple of allotted hull grid damage.

For example: on a 100 ton Type S, every 10 hull hits (starting at number 11) requires a +1DM for Misjump.

So, at 13 hull hits, the Type S would have a +1DM. At 27 hull hits, it would have a +2DM. At 32 hull hits, it would have a +3DM, etc.

Same thing goes for the 400 toner. 41-80 hull hits = +1DM. 81-120 hull hits = +2DM. 121-160 hull hits = +3DM.


That sounds a little more fair, doesn't it. Thanks for pointing that out. I just scribbled it down and changed it in my notes.

 

[mike wightman]

Yep, that's more like it.

I'm thinking of using it too.

Possibly extending it to the chance of a maneuver drive malfunction, or a power plant overload due to radiator malfunctions, acceleration compensators playing up, grav plate malfunction, etc.

 

[mike wightman]

Yep, that's more like it.

I'm thinking of using it too.

Possibly extending it to the chance of a maneuver drive malfunction, or a power plant overload due to radiator malfunctions, acceleration compensators playing up, grav plate malfunction, etc.