Scrunched Known Space

[whulorigan]

Get thee better computers and software, young man.

Even with complete high-end computer calculation, the astrogation task is so staggering for many of the very high-order drives that the task still has a high degree of uncertainty (in fact the very high order drives are for the most part presuming that you are using computers entirely for the task).

In T5, task resolution is a roll-under target # skill-mechanic, and difficulty is the (increasing) number of dice. Astrogation difficulty is the number of parsecs being traversed *. So a Leap-1 (kiloparsec) drive is a 1000-dice difficulty task (roll under your skill, or roll-under the equivalent (TL-24) computer operation marshalling all available networked computer cells as task resolver for the roll).

* - Note that CT/MT/T4/MgT skills convert approximately to T5 skills by doubling the value and adding "+1" (i.e. CT Skill-1 = T5 Skill-3; CT Skill-3 = T5 Skill-7, etc.) ​

 

[kilemall]

Even with complete high-end computer calculation, the astrogation task is so staggering for many of the very high-order drives that the task still has a high degree of uncertainty (in fact the very high order drives are for the most part presuming that you are using computers entirely for the task).

In T5, task resolution is a roll-under target # skill-mechanic, and difficulty is the (increasing) number of dice. Astrogation difficulty is the number of parsecs being traversed *. So a Leap-1 (kiloparsec) drive is a 1000-dice difficulty task (roll under your skill, or roll-under the equivalent (TL-24) computer operation marshalling all available networked computer cells as task resolver for the roll).

* - Note that CT/MT/T4/MgT skills convert approximately to T5 skills by doubling the value and adding "+1" (i.e. CT Skill-1 = T5 Skill-3; CT Skill-3 = T5 Skill-7, etc.) ​

Thus, psionic navigators are required?

 

[coliver988]

Thus, psionic navigators are required?

psionics who use Spice to navigate?

 

[Spinward Flow]

Thus, psionic navigators are required?

"We have just folded space from Ix. Many machines on Ix. New machines. Thinking machines."

 

[whulorigan]

Thus, psionic navigators are required?

Not necessarily. It is just that a failed astrogation role means that there will possibly be blockage along the jumpline, and there will be "scatter" at the end of the leap-transition that will require a second or third smaller jump, hop, or skip to arrive on location at the intended final destination.

(But the Psionic Astrogator is an intriguing idea . . . ).

 

[whulorigan]

Thus, psionic navigators are required?

(But the Psionic Astrogator is an intriguing idea . . . ).

Which brings up an interesting tangent (not to get too off-topic): Since prescience/precognition is a thing with psionics in Traveller (even if rare - the Zhodani have encountered it in relation to that "artifact" leading them on the Core Expeditions, and Bland's encounter with the Zhodani Dancer's in AotI implies it as well), then there is the necessary implication that Psionics is an a-temporal phenomenon, and therefore potentially an exploitable FTL phenomenon (precognition is bringing information from the future back into the past).

 

[kilemall]

I am into precog as the unwritten psionic discipline, navigation seems to be very much in the wheelhouse of that ability.

 

[whulorigan]

I am into precog as the unwritten psionic discipline, navigation seems to be very much in the wheelhouse of that ability.

I consider it to be one of the primary talents under the "Special" category of Psionics. Of course, it is really difficult to administer mechanically during play for PCs/NPCs . . .

 

[Spinward Flow]

Of course, it is really difficult to administer mechanically during play for PCs/NPCs . . .

How hard can it be?

 

[aramis]

I have no idea what you're talking about, nor what it has to do with putting a 3I sized polity in 3D space instead of a pencil-and-paper friendly planar game map. S/H/L/B/V?

J/H/S/L/B/V
As noted by others Jump/Hop/Skip/Leap/Bound/Vault. N= 1/10¹/10²/10³/10⁴/10⁵ Parsecs per _... A vault 1 (V-1) can get you from Earth to the Large Magellenic cloud. At least, as long as you don't run into the exclusion zones of anything between.

There are two factors here... 1st I had reason to ask about the nature of FTL because I was running the numbers on how far one could get with the new drives in T5.01.

They all mass the same, all require the same amount of fuel under T5 Release... and the error is still ±1000 km per parsec for all... but...to go less than full _-1, you have to actually hit the 100D limit.

The biggest change T5 makes to the OTU: if anything bigger crosses your jump line (which is a straight line) ANYWHERE, you'll drop out at end time 100 diam this side of that item. You don't have to aim for where it should be, you just aim so that during the window your exit will intercept the target some point during the time in jump. Same for Hop/Skip/Leap/Bound/Vault.

You're not going to get more than about 100 Pc on any in-galaxy travel if oort clouds exist around most or all systems - some small chunk a couple km long will drop you out.

So the higher order drives past skip don't matter... in galaxy. It may take a few tries to skip to the edge...

Item 2: I needed to know if J-Space was 2D or 3D because it affects the ability to go distances.
If J-Space is a plane, even if it's a wrinkly plane, only things intersecting it affect it; above or below don't.
If it's 3D, then it's roughly twice as likely for something to block you, and a lot of big stars can be real problems for the higher order drives under that draft.

The thing is, while I was doing the calculations, Marc noted that the Jump/etc drives operated on a single non-conformal plane - the starmaps are J/H/S/L/B/V plane positions, not a 2d of 3d space for playability.
Which also means a bunch of stars probably aren't connected, and Jump space may be a result of TL 24 engineering by Yaskodray... or perhaps some other sport, or even a different species.

Also note: Cryton's degree is in Math and Astronomy. He did the math and we jointly did the methodology.

(one theory about the Empress Wave is that it was someone else propagating a new set of FTL travel planes to reach with those higher order drives... Marc refused to comment when I asked.)

So, it may not matter that the 3I could fit in a sphere, because things not in the wrinkly sheet's path are out of reach....

YTU can vary; I really, literally, only care about the nature of the OTU. Marc may or may not change his mind about 2D vs 3D J/.../V Space(s).

Last I heard, it was one of those topics he planned for a blurb in M1900 materials. But I've not asked in about 5 years.

 

[kilemall]

If one fully implemented the chance of 100D interruption, really need that spare emergency fuel to get out of a 1000 parsec misjump at galaxy’s edge.

 

[aramis]

If one fully implemented the chance of 100D interruption, really need that spare emergency fuel to get out of a 1000 parsec misjump at galaxy’s edge.

A J1 misjump is up to 36 parsecs (Pc)
An H1 mishop is 10 to 360 Pc
An S1 misskip is 100 to 3.6e3 Pc
An L1 misleap is 1e3 to 3.6e4 Pc
a B1 misbound is 1e4 to 3.6e5 Pc
A V1 misvault can send you up to 3.6e6 Pc

Distance to M81 is 3.63e6 ±0.34e6 Pc...
Andromeda (M31) is about 7e5 parsecs bound 8 can hit it. Vault 1 could, on a really bad day, miss it entirely by failing to hit an exclusion within it.

The extragalactic space is pretty lacking in content. So, yeah, you need a spare transit worth of fuel. A Misbound or Misvault are likely irrecoverable errors. it's 3.04e6 Pc median distance between (non-satellite) galaxies.

While I was writing this, I heard this zinger...
"If you were to fill the solar system with cotton candy, it would immediately collapse into a black hole. The Early universe wasn't filled with cotton candy, at least as far as we can tell" - Matt O'Dowd, PhD. Today. (PBS SpaceTime)

 

[whartung]

While I was writing this, I heard this zinger...
"If you were to fill the solar system with cotton candy, it would immediately collapse into a black hole. The Early universe wasn't filled with cotton candy, at least as far as we can tell" - Matt O'Dowd, PhD. Today. (PBS SpaceTime)

That...is quite the visual, isn't it?

Now I visualize a team of Mages working incantations to polymorph a solar system in to cotton candy.

"This'll show 'em!"

 

[whartung]

I mean, really, this opens up all sorts of questions.

What's the density of Cotton Candy? Are we talking a thick disk of it, or a solar system size sphere? How far out? Jupiter? Pluto? How long would it take?

Ok, math fun time.

Assumptions: Jupiter orbit, disk of CC, the disk is "3 jupiters thick".

Jupiter diameter is 140Kkm. So, 140x3 = 520Kkm. Jupiter orbit is 780Mkm. So, now we have a cylinder. pi r^2 x h.

3.14159 * 6.01E17 * 520,000 = 9.9E23 cubic km.

Cotton Candy has a density of .05g sugar / cubic centimeter. 9.9E23 km^3 is 9.9E38 cm^3

5E34kg of sugar.

Were talking about 25,000 solar masses here.

"That's a lot!"

Still like to see an animation of this! lol

"Here's where all the pink fuzziness starts to collapse and fuse, then it ignites, give's a S'mores like aroma."