self-destruct mechanism
- Thread starter flykiller
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GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
The size and TL of the ship will affect the options available, but fusion *power* makes for a poor fusion *bomb* as I understand it.
For smaller ships, the concept of scuttling may be more applicable. Vaporizing the typical starship takes a lot of energy, but turning one into a powerless and airless shell is fairly easy. In space or jumpspace that is enough to kill any attempted hijackers, while a grounded ship that is scuttled will never lift again once the power plant goes into crash shutdown, the weird science parts of the M drives and J drives fuse into homogenous lumps, and every computer does whatever is required to make it an inert lump (as I don't for a minute think that our 21st Century computers are a particularly good guide to what it would take to kill a computer designed for a century in space).
For smaller ships, the concept of scuttling may be more applicable. Vaporizing the typical starship takes a lot of energy, but turning one into a powerless and airless shell is fairly easy. In space or jumpspace that is enough to kill any attempted hijackers, while a grounded ship that is scuttled will never lift again once the power plant goes into crash shutdown, the weird science parts of the M drives and J drives fuse into homogenous lumps, and every computer does whatever is required to make it an inert lump (as I don't for a minute think that our 21st Century computers are a particularly good guide to what it would take to kill a computer designed for a century in space).
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Overloading the jump capacitors can destroy a ship in HG2
That was my original intent when I posted that in the other thread. The fallback in case someone tries to break into the engine room to prevent it is to drop the power plant's fusion containment. This won't turn the power plant into a nuclear bomb, but it will blast the engine room and any interior space not blocked by a bulkhead and closed hatch with superheated plasma or at least a severe blast overpressure wave. A properly-implemented self-destruct protocol will also automatically open all the interior hatches to ensure maximum devastation. Personnel not in the drive bay who are wearing battledress might survive, but most of the interior will be toast.
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I would expect civilian starships to be built with safety interlocks to prevent self-destruction (not that they couldn't be overridden, but it'd take advance preparation to defeat the interlocks and those modifications ought to render the ship uninsurable). Military ones, however, would have the capability built in.
Those capacitors take 1-2 battle turns (so about 20-40 min) to be charged in HG2 (at least that's what I understand form the Breacking Off by jumping explanation). See that this is a lot of time if you're being boarded...
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
One simple way would be to release hydrogen from the fuel tanks into the interior of the ship forming a fuel-air explosive mix within the entire ship and then detonating it.
While that wouldn't "vaporize" the ship it certainly would tear it apart. This would turn the ship into, essentially, a huge cannon shell filled with explosives. It would also consume by fire anything flammable within the hull. Blast pressure would do the rest.
Since every ship has L-hyd aboard, all you'd need for a self destruct system is piping and valves to vent the fuel into the hull compartment by compartment and a sensor in each to detect the correct mixture of hydrogen and oxygen.
It might also vent any stored oxygen into the ship enriching the amount available to increase the explosive force.
While that wouldn't "vaporize" the ship it certainly would tear it apart. This would turn the ship into, essentially, a huge cannon shell filled with explosives. It would also consume by fire anything flammable within the hull. Blast pressure would do the rest.
Since every ship has L-hyd aboard, all you'd need for a self destruct system is piping and valves to vent the fuel into the hull compartment by compartment and a sensor in each to detect the correct mixture of hydrogen and oxygen.
It might also vent any stored oxygen into the ship enriching the amount available to increase the explosive force.
I'd assume this means internal explosions (either a missile penetrating and exploding inside the ship, interior explosions due to mesons, etc) tearing apart the ship superstructure...
Standard operating procedure might be to leave them continuously partially charged -- run the maneuver drive and energy weapons off the capacitors, and top off the capacitors with the power plant to keep the charge state up. That still doesn't quite square with the two-turn rule though.
On the other hand, you could overload a subset of the capacitors to destruction -- say, half of them in one battle turn, a quarter of them in 10 minutes, etc.
Might not vaporize the ship, but the EMP and power surge would probably fry anything valuable.
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Capacitors is one of the things that are (IMHO) not well enough described i nthe game, so we must deduce from what is written in various sources, and our deductions may well not coincide.
This said, again by reading HG2 breack out by jumping rules, we see that:
- You must declare your intent (so, I guess begining charge your capacitors) at the begining of the turn, but you'll jump at the end of the turn they are loaded (even if the charging comes from the Black Globe).
- You need power equal ot the output of a PP twice the jump capacity to load them, be it because your PP doubles it or by using it two consecutive turns.
- You must do it in 2 turns, so hinting the capacitors may not be kept loaded for long periods of time.
Point 1: may be just a game sequence effect, to represent the fact that they msut survive this turn or to represent the time needed to charge them. Only in the latter case would it be relevant.
Point 2: means that you need a lot of power to overload them. Also argeable if you can load just a part of them...
Point 3: see that this is contradictory with its use as sinks for the Black Globe, as there's no limit of time to keep them loaded...
In any case, nothing seems to point the capacitors are usually loaded (even partially so).
I like this.
Probably wouldn't get the stochiometric mix exactly right for maximum explosive effect if the interior was already pressurized with standard atmosphere, but if it started as vacuum (typical SOP for space combat) it could be achieved.
Hull compartments open to space (hull damage) might not be affected unless the H2/O2 flooding was at a very high rate.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I didn't say it was quick
But let's do the maths; consider the output from a power plant in HG2 and jump drive capacitor size and EP capacity.
Power plants on warships tend to be two to two and a half times the jump drive rating, often higher.
Pump the full power plant output into the jump capacitors and they fill up pretty quickly.
A 100,000t jump 3 warship will have 1500t of capacitors with a capacity of 54000EP.
It will have at least a power plant 8, generating 80,000EP per turn.
Two thirds of a turn, let's say 15mins tops - boom.
\i didn't say it was quick
Also consider the output from a power plant in HG2 and jump drive size.
Power plants on warships tend to be two to two and a half times the jump drive rating.
Pump the full power plant output into the jump capacitors and they fill up pretty quickly.
A 100,000t jump 3 warship will have 1500t of capacitors with a capacity of 54000EP.
It will have at least a power plant 10, generating 100,000EP per turn.
Half a turn - boom.
Agreed, but in military ships, if you're defending your bridge (and losing it, so that you decide to scuttle the ship, that is what I understand form the OP), you're likely not to have your PP at full power (to say the least), and in civilian ships (where this can come from a hijacking attempt) don't use to have such large PPs...
And most military ships would carry nukes (at least in HG2) that can be detonated inside the sship, accomplishing it quite easily.
And even a half of a turn (10 min) its quite a lot of time in personal combat turns to take the ship. I guess none of my played boarding action (be it as player or referee; in RPG, Snapshoot or AHL) has lasted that much...
This could represent normal operation using the capacitors to power drives and energy weapons.
Fair enough. It does suggest the capacity for the capacitors to act as a source of twice the power plant's output (assuming PN=JN) for however long the power plant charges them. When properly operated, the Jump Drive can handle this power surge easily. The maneuver drive and other ship systems probably cannot, and the Jump Drive can likely be rigged to be damaged or destroyed by it if needed.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
A power plant equal to the jump drive can provide the energy over two turns, a power plant twice the rating of the jump drive can do it in one turn.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
The scenario is to scuttle a perfectly intact ship as per the original post, not engage in a battle of what ifs...
As to civilian ships, I have loads of designs where the maneuver drive and power plant are higher than the jump drive.
Most of the grandfathered CT ships under HG are underpowered and need bigger power plants to get them agility, energy for computers, and power for energy weapons.
And as to the length of boarding actions and hijacking attempts in my games they can take 10 mins or more using Snapshot or AHL 15 second turns. How many turns does it take to walk a character from the cargo bay area of the Snapshot free trader to the bridge?
Have you ever run two teams of player characters, one team are the hijackers and one team are the crew? Try it and see how long it lasts
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Perhaps the ship's inertial compensators, artificial gravity fields and sub-space heat sinks can overload and vaporise a ship :devil: :CoW:
While this can be a good idea, if the situation is a military boarded ship, it is unlikely an option, a in HG2 the more usual way to cripple a ship so that it can be boarded is pecisely due to lack of fuel (be because sattered fuel tanks or because many small leacks).
See that for a J4 ship jump fuel is likley to represent over 80% of its fuel. So, unless it has refueled after jump (and having used at least one week of PP fuel, that usually represents 25% of It), it would have just about 10-15% of its tanks full, so 15 fuel hits will leave them dry...
If that was standard practice, dissabling the PP would not leave the ship unpowered, as it could still use its stored energy in the sinks, and that's not the case, according damage descriptions...