Foreven is the one sector of the Official Traveller Universe (OTU) which is completely available to third parties to modify as they see fit and even legally publish commercial supplements for this sector. However, I never found it to be very interesting or flavorful in comparison to the old Outer Rim Void, the Marches or the Dark Nebula. I'd like to hear good things about this sector; what makes it fun for play in general and sandbox play in particular? What makes it flavorful? And how much is it of an actual frontier?
OTU Only: Sell me on Foreven
- Thread starter Golan2072
- Start date
Okay, maybe I was wrong with the above post. There are three things to say about Foreven that is more or less fact-based. No, four. Okay, five.
(1) It's next to the Spinward Marches. So the Marches can be used as a jumping-off point into Foreven, whether it's cosmopolitan or wilderness.
(2) Part of it is in the Zhodani Consulate. The implications of (1) and (2) together make Foreven potentially problematic. People here have argued about THAT. There are scars.
(3) The fun-and-interesting Far Frontiers sector is spinward to Foreven.
(4) A classic Traveller adventure (Broadsword) mentions a squadron of ten Broadsword-class mercenary cruisers sent through Foreven, presumably to Far Frontiers, by the Sword Worlders (I think). There is an implication that Foreven is perhaps not as civilized as the Marches. The other implication is that the Sword Worlders have an iron in the fire that we otherwise don't know about. And that they're not averse to taking long trips (e.g. vikings).
(5) It appears that there are some places where Jump-2 won't cut it. 3 parsecs' worth of fuel seem to be the safe amount for jumping around. And if your ship is Jump-1, you'll not only need 3 parsecs of fuel, you might also need more than 1 month of power plant fuel. This may discourage trade.
Though that does not pin down Foreven, there is an implication that Foreven may not be as settled or civilized as the Spinward Marches: ten armed 800t Jump-3 cruisers may cross its span, apparently profitably. Can a single far trader survive?
(1) It's next to the Spinward Marches. So the Marches can be used as a jumping-off point into Foreven, whether it's cosmopolitan or wilderness.
(2) Part of it is in the Zhodani Consulate. The implications of (1) and (2) together make Foreven potentially problematic. People here have argued about THAT. There are scars.
(3) The fun-and-interesting Far Frontiers sector is spinward to Foreven.
(4) A classic Traveller adventure (Broadsword) mentions a squadron of ten Broadsword-class mercenary cruisers sent through Foreven, presumably to Far Frontiers, by the Sword Worlders (I think). There is an implication that Foreven is perhaps not as civilized as the Marches. The other implication is that the Sword Worlders have an iron in the fire that we otherwise don't know about. And that they're not averse to taking long trips (e.g. vikings).
(5) It appears that there are some places where Jump-2 won't cut it. 3 parsecs' worth of fuel seem to be the safe amount for jumping around. And if your ship is Jump-1, you'll not only need 3 parsecs of fuel, you might also need more than 1 month of power plant fuel. This may discourage trade.
Though that does not pin down Foreven, there is an implication that Foreven may not be as settled or civilized as the Spinward Marches: ten armed 800t Jump-3 cruisers may cross its span, apparently profitably. Can a single far trader survive?
Thanks for the lengthy reply!
How much of the "fun" OTU flavor exists in Foreven? Can you transplant most CT adventures there, for example?
Also, are the various polities which show up in Traveller-Map and other sites as existing in Foreven canonical? I mean other than the Imperium and the Consulate...
How much of the "fun" OTU flavor exists in Foreven? Can you transplant most CT adventures there, for example?
Also, are the various polities which show up in Traveller-Map and other sites as existing in Foreven canonical? I mean other than the Imperium and the Consulate...
You're welcome, Omer (I think that's who you are).
Of course, Chamax Plague and Horde were in Foreven sector!
For the rest: that's an interesting question, one which I've never thought about. On consideration, I think the non-trade-based adventures could easily be transplanted there. In particular, Shadows, ANNIC NOVA, Research Base Gamma, Leviathan, Broadsword, Expedition to Zhodane. Safari Ship would require a Jump-3 ship, but is otherwise unchanged.
Twilight's Peak could have its final destination deep inside Foreven, but with the bulk of the adventure is in a civilized main, in the Spinward Marches or perhaps in Reidain subsector.
I doubt The Traveller Adventure could be ported to Foreven. Assuming trade is crippled in Foreven, that is.
Mongoose and FFE both publish the Foreven PDF that shows the "canonical" map, mostly just showing system presence and allegiance, but there are five worlds named and with UWPs. The Consulate claims almost half of the sector (my personal bent would be to make them only nominally Consulate). And there are four corporations mentioned -- all external.
http://www.farfuture.net/FFEForevenSectorReserve2008.pdf
Hi,
can I suggest you take a look at some of the stuff from DSL Ironworks on the Foreven sector (sub-sector P)?
Kind Regards
David
The lack of J-1 main is telling against your casual free trader. But the presence of multiple J-1 clusters make it quite nice for "Pocket Empire" type of campaign with multiple small polities that may have their own rules, agenda, conflicts. This give multiple plots for a J2 trader/courrier/smuggler.
J-3 (with the inherent high cost of the ship) is needed only if you insist on visiting some world, although it will allow profitable short cuts; one J3 instead of 3 to 7 J-2 should justifiy some trade or charter opportunities .
have fun
Selandia
J-3 (with the inherent high cost of the ship) is needed only if you insist on visiting some world, although it will allow profitable short cuts; one J3 instead of 3 to 7 J-2 should justifiy some trade or charter opportunities .
have fun
Selandia
Which means that effectively there is no OTU Foreven. Just a small and VERY limited handful of facts.
Well, the MTU Foreven gets a lot of its flavor from the internal tensions of the Weltenbund, traditionally neutral-on-the-Imperium's-side but lately having had several major worlds (chief among them Avalar) 'seduced' by the Zhodani.
It's also the location of Lebensraum, a huge, metal-poor world that is an expy of Jack Vance's Big Planet.
Different Forevens will derive their flavors from different things. None of them will be the OTU Foreven. It's just not possible that they can be.
Hans
Casual traders would mostly be jump-2 anyway. Even on J-1 mains. Any low-population world (with the dearth of trade that would logically result from the low population) on the main would be almost as big a hindrance for J1 ships as empty hexes (almost, not quite; the ability to get fuel does make it a bit better than empty space).
J3 would be employed on many regular runs, since it's often the cheapest way to cross the distance between two systems (along with J2 -- it will depend on the astrography (sometimes J4 will actually be cheapest)).
Hans
Frankymole
SOC-12
I've always wondered why there aren't higher-jump number "ferries" able to load a few ~200 dTon ships and carry them to another main. Presumably if there are some small clumps of worlds with J-1 routes between them but inadequate shipyards, they'd have to bring in ships for the local milk-runs anyway?
No need. Any J1 merchant or freighter can just carry along fuel for a second jump. It's not worth while for regular commercial operations, but for a once-in-a-rare-while change of scenery it's viable.
Hans
Frankymole
SOC-12
Do they need extra equipment or safety measures to pump the L-Hyd from cargo hold containers to the fuel tanks? Just curious how much spare displacement tonnage to set aside.
According to the CT rules you just need a collapsible tank of the same tonnage as the amount of extra fuel you carry. When collapsed, the tank takes up 5% of its full tonnage. No information is provided about how they keep the LHyd at liquid temperature or the rest of the cargo hold at room temperature.
Hans
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
You might also justify jump ferries in areas where lanthanum is rare (or perceived to be rare), leading to the powers-that-be controlling ships. You can derive a rather Dune-like result, with the populace that travels at all owning or traveling on in-system craft of all sorts and hitching a ride with the Government Jump Ferry.
An Imperial ship wandering into such a neighborhood would attract quite a bit of unwanted attention, just for being capable of going its own way.
An Imperial ship wandering into such a neighborhood would attract quite a bit of unwanted attention, just for being capable of going its own way.
Agree for PC adventuring along the main. Within J-1 clusters, even if some trade patterns will be J-2, casual traders will usually be J-1 since J-1 ships have a commercial advantage over J-2 on J-1 route. NPC casual traders do not have Adventuring inperatives of PC and should be expected to have the most economically rewarding behavior (and that is sometime J-1 and sometime J2, J3, J4).
Quite right, liner services will obviously find profitable to use J-3 or even J-4. For character, it is all in the nature of the adventure they want of the one proposed by the ref.
have fun
Selandia
Of course while all this discussion of J-3 is relevant if you're basing your Foreven on the published dot-maps, one of the points of Foreven is that you can happily toss out everythign ever published about it, including the dot-maps, and put whatever you like there.
As to the lack of flavour - that's really the point. Foreven is the gap left in the OTU for you to fill with whatever flavours you happen to like but which aren't catered for elsewhere. Do you have an idea for an interesting alien multi-world empire run by a species not mentioned anywhere else in the OTU? Put it in Foreven.
Want to have some terrible disaster such as an ongoing terrible war, plague, TNE style Virus outbreak etc strike multiple worlds, but you don't want to mess up anywhere published? Have it happen in Foreven.
It's the ideal place to slot in something a bit off the wall, that you don't want to put anywhere else in the OTU because it might clash with existing or possible future cannon. But of course if you'd like to just create your own custom sector, that meshes well into the existing OTU, then it's the ideal place to do that. It's also a great way to have genionely 'new' un-surveyed worlds pop up that are within reach of the existing setting. Maybe there's a cluster of worlds in Foreven that weren't reachable for thousands of years due to some astrogation hazard, but now a way to reach them has been found. Now the Scout service can have somewhere genuinely unexplored to go and survey.
Simon Hibbs
As to the lack of flavour - that's really the point. Foreven is the gap left in the OTU for you to fill with whatever flavours you happen to like but which aren't catered for elsewhere. Do you have an idea for an interesting alien multi-world empire run by a species not mentioned anywhere else in the OTU? Put it in Foreven.
Want to have some terrible disaster such as an ongoing terrible war, plague, TNE style Virus outbreak etc strike multiple worlds, but you don't want to mess up anywhere published? Have it happen in Foreven.
It's the ideal place to slot in something a bit off the wall, that you don't want to put anywhere else in the OTU because it might clash with existing or possible future cannon. But of course if you'd like to just create your own custom sector, that meshes well into the existing OTU, then it's the ideal place to do that. It's also a great way to have genionely 'new' un-surveyed worlds pop up that are within reach of the existing setting. Maybe there's a cluster of worlds in Foreven that weren't reachable for thousands of years due to some astrogation hazard, but now a way to reach them has been found. Now the Scout service can have somewhere genuinely unexplored to go and survey.
Simon Hibbs
True. If the cluster is small and the populations big enough to generate plenty of incidental trade, a J1 ship may be able to tramp around successfully. The larger the cluster and the more low-population systems around, the less likely they are to do well.
Of course, an old J1 ship that is fully paid up and thus relieved of bank payments can survive quite well by underbidding the regular J2 traffic. Especially if there is no increased maintenance and no pesky breakdowns for old ships accounted for in the rules.
Hans
Frankymole
SOC-12
Thanks. Was this in Trillion Credit Squadron, or maybe LBB5?
The discussion about Terrans first jumping to Barnard made me wonder if there is a TL requirement above TL9 for L-Hyd collapsible or drop tanks. Presumably a fuel tanker would not necessarily end up close by if it accompanied an exploratory ship into jump?
