Skill Frequency

[TamsinP]

But the UK comparison is not all that valid, since there's been consistent movement to delete hereditary peerages through the 20th C.

No hereditary peerages are being deleted, but their role in the Government has been reduced (and there is a movement to completely eliminate it).

Edit to add: However, the number of life peerages being awarded has increased significantly since WW2.

 

[Condottiere]

Purchasable.

Jamie, the First of his name, cheapened the concept.

First, as a non fungible token.

Then, as a party favour.

Now, you can be a laird of one square foot of Scottish ground.

 

[TamsinP]

Now, you can be a laird of one square foot of Scottish ground.

Not that myth, peddled by scammers, again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laird#Souvenir_plots_and_false_titles

 

[aramis]

Back to topic...

I find it worth pointing out that the random encounters section of Bk3-77 and Bk3-81 lack any provision for encountered random types to have weapon skill. It's reasonable to presume the universal (¹⁄₂ or 0, by year)... but it doesn't even go that far.
Nor is there errata for it.
TTB gives more kinds of encounters (from 3+2 - routine, random, patron explicit in bk3, plus the law enforcement check from the LL description, and the animal encounters in that section), to 7 (Routine, Random, Rumor, Legal, Patron, Adventure, Animal - note the addition of Rumor and Adventure).

One can infer from character gen that the various types corresponding to extant careers should have the free skills given in term 1... which means Soldiers Rifle 1, and Marines Cutlass 1.

I think it fair to say, CT doesn't provide a good model of normal people of the Imperium; if one's as simulationist as I used to be, I assumed it was producing the average traveller, that 1 in a thousand who make it off world, not the average Citizen of the imperium.

I later adoped 4d6k2L -1 with a resulting 11 having a 1/3 chance of being promoted to 12, and similarly 12 to 13, 13 to 14, and 14 to 15.

Soc	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	A	B+
N/1296	171	244	261	224	171	108	65	32	15	4	1
%	13.2%	18.8%	20.1%	17.3%	13.2%	8.3%	5.0%	2.5%	1.16%	0.31%	0.077%

This does great unpleasantness to the middle class... making them about 15% of the populace. But it gets the nobles down to under the UK current percentage.
So, Knights become some 2/3 of the nobles (0.052%), barons 4/9 (0.034%), Viscounts 8/27 (0.023%), Counts 16/81(0.015%), Dukes 8/81 (0.0076%).
If I were on such a simulationist bent now, I'd keep dice 2 and 3 of 5d6. And from 11 up, I'd use 1/6 chance.
1 276 3.549382716049383%
2 610 7.844650205761317%
3 1116 14.351851851851851%
4 1300 16.718106995884774%
5 1416 18.209876543209877%
6 1170 15.046296296296296%
7 926 11.90843621399177%
8 540 6.944444444444445%
9 306 3.9351851851851856%
10 90 1.1574074074074074%
11 26 0.3343621399176955%

This puts the middle class (6-8) around 34%, and the working class (3-5) at about 48%... with the deeply impoverished, the criminal, and serf classes (1-2) at 11.3%

On the skill levels... the average character generated totally randomly has about 2/18 chance of key skills, 2/24 if well educated. so expected...
so T+C+R = 1, 1/9 chance of skill 2.
T+C+R=2 16/81 of skill 2, 1/81 of skill 3
T+C+R=3: 192/729 skill 2, 24/729 of skill 3, 1 of 729 of skill 4
T+C+R=4: 2048/6561 skill 2, 384/6561 of skill 3, 32/6561 of skill 4, 1/6561 of skill 5.
T+C+R=5: 20480/59049 skill 2, 5120/59049 skill 3, 640/59049 skill 4, 40/59049 skill 5, 1/59049 skill 6

out = [0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0]
for a in d9:
    for b in d9:
        for c in d9:
            for d in d9:
                out[a+b+c+d]+=1
print(out)

Numbers are actually slightly off, but it gives the rough idea. Why? because some skills are not twice, and because it's not checking for other skills we're not interested in. It's a process for "I need a man of skill X on his records"...
Add a new variable for line setting out each step, and add its variable inside the braces after out

 

[whulorigan]

Purchasable.

Jamie, the First of his name, cheapened the concept.

First, as a non fungible token.

Then, as a party favour.

And all the Baronets sat "Amen".

Now, you can be a laird of one square foot of Scottish ground.

In Lanarkshire.

 

[TamsinP]

I later adoped 4d6k2L -1

Just checking - 4d6, keep lowest two, deduct 1?

 

[aramis]

Just checking - 4d6, keep lowest two, deduct 1?

Yep. But note that now I'd use 5d6, keep 2nd and 3rd lowest, then deduct 1.

 

[atpollard]

Yep. But note that now I'd use 5d6, keep 2nd and 3rd lowest, then deduct 1.

At this point, wouldn't a percentage system be simpler?

 

[Badenov]

Depends what you consider simpler:
1. Now the dice you need for Traveller include two d10 that you don't need for anything else
2. Now the dice you need include 3d6 more than you used to need
3 Now you need to roll your original 2d6 two and a half more times

As to which of those is simpler, it depends on your dice collection and on your POV about what's easy.

Probably the simplest solution in terms of extra dice would be a d66 dolution: no extra dice needed, MgT1 at least already has a couple d66 tables for encounters so presumably the DM already has two d6 that are visually different.


If you want a dedicated 10, 20, ..., 60 die, there's:

Pokemon TCG Custom Damage Dice Single D6 Numbered 10-60

These charming dice are designed just like pokeballs! Keep track of your damage in the Pokemon TCG or be a rolling master with these D6s. Also available numbered 1-6 and 70-120!

www.boardgamesdallas.com

A post found on https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/3181160/does-anyone-sell-d6-dice-with-10-60-instead-of-1-6 says Chessex makes them, but they have to be special ordered.
But this falls back into the original 'not simpler' issue.

 

[Condottiere]

Roll a percentile dice.

Get a double zero.

Now you're part of the One Percent.

Roll again for which specific part.

 

[whartung]

I will say, regarding the OTU and that time for Traveller, my favorite thing they came out with was JTAS #9. "WAR" The start of the FFW.

I mean, for whatever reason, it impacted me greatly. It's not that I was super invested in the OTU or anything, I just knew Traveller the game, and such.

But that issue, a DOUBLE issue, mind, just the desperate reporting as the Zhodani incurred on the Spinward Marches.

Seemed like a Big Deal.

 

[Quint]

Man, you have no clue about the zany we were doing in 1983-1987... I ran one adventure in the net of Tron... as a misjump effect.
...
I had urges for gonzo that rivaled that of Ken St. Andre.

Class of '87 here, but we started playing in '80 or '81 - The Little Black Box and the Deluxe Box (I was so jealous when a buddy got that), I remember buying High Guard and wow, that blew the barn doors off the hinges...

But the gonzo... Anti-matter Planetbreakers, Time Lords & Tardis', Infinite Improbability Drive (finally superseded by me by the Restaurant Check Drive when I read that book first) - and then crazy anime psychic powers.

It was interesting, we didn't mix genres much, so AD&D + Rolemaster + Runequest was a thing, and it was Traveller + Space Opera (plus eventually Cyberpunk 2020) - I think the only game that stayed mostly pure was Call of Cthulhu...

D.

 

[Rupert]

I think it fair to say, CT doesn't provide a good model of normal people of the Imperium; if one's as simulationist as I used to be, I assumed it was producing the average traveller, that 1 in a thousand who make it off world, not the average Citizen of the imperium.

Not just 'made it off-world', but who is crazy enough to change careers in a society where that's rather uncommon.

 

[Rupert]

Depends what you consider simpler:
1. Now the dice you need for Traveller include two d10 that you don't need for anything else
2. Now the dice you need include 3d6 more than you used to need
3 Now you need to roll your original 2d6 two and a half more times

As to which of those is simpler, it depends on your dice collection and on your POV about what's easy.

Damage rolls always needed more than 2d6 for many of them (almost all of them post '81)...

 

[RogerMC]

No hereditary peerages are being deleted, but their role in the Government has been reduced (and there is a movement to completely eliminate it).

Edit to add: However, the number of life peerages being awarded has increased significantly since WW2.

Quite! The House of Lords even purged of hereditaries is now the largest legislative chamber in the world.

And when Britain had an empire and peers were being sent out to govern New South Wales there were far fewer peers and a much larger subject population.

My problem with chargen is not the 3% chance of rolling a baron but that barons - let alone the grand admiral and duke it is relatively easy to generate - as defined in the OTU fluff are vastly more powerful and wealthy than a player character can plausibly be.

If I remember correctly past discussions here or perhaps in the TML Hans Rancke-Madsen addressed this by uncapping SOC and greatly extending the noble ranks so an actual duke would be SOC 28 or whatever?

 

[RogerMC]

I think it fair to say, CT doesn't provide a good model of normal people of the Imperium; if one's as simulationist as I used to be, I assumed it was producing the average traveller, that 1 in a thousand who make it off world, not the average Citizen of the imperium.

Yep my probabilities were off - so much easier to roll 1d1000/3d10 and need 000...

Only one in a thousand make it off world? If so how did all those 11,000 or whatever it is worlds actually get populated?

A middle passage is not cheap but it is hardly beyond the means of the typical imperial citizen to get off world - particularly given how horrible so many high population worlds are!

If you live under a giant dome cheek by jowl with a billion neighbours under a repressive dictatorship with an atmosphere outside that will strip the unprotected flesh from your bones in seconds who wouldn't save up for a trip to a garden world?

 

[atpollard]

Only one in a thousand make it off world? If so how did all those 11,000 or whatever it is worlds actually get populated?

A middle passage is not cheap but it is hardly beyond the means of the typical imperial citizen to get off world - particularly given how horrible so many high population worlds are!

If you live under a giant dome cheek by jowl with a billion neighbors under a repressive dictatorship with an atmosphere outside that will strip the unprotected flesh from your bones in seconds who wouldn't save up for a trip to a garden world?

Colonial America was populated by someone else paying the fee for Trans-Atlantic passage in the 1600's. That could have been in the form of a Corporate Charter with Investors expecting to be repaid with a profit and early colonists struggling to repay the debt of the colony, or with "indentured servitude" (an employer paying the fare in exchange for a contract to work for X years to repay it).

Just for fun, let's assume 5 jumps from source to colony [Cr 40,000 in middle passages] to import a worker. Let us also assume that the worker will earn Cr 1000 per month with Cr 500 going towards a Cr 80,000 debt (doubled to cover the employer's risk). That would work out to 160 months to pay off the passage (just over 13 years) and then the worker is free to do whatever, wherever. If the average wage is doubled (or the colony assumes the risk and only charges cost), then the time to repay is halved (just under 7 years).

... and that was for a 5 jump passage!

So it only takes a 2 term employment contract on the new colony to pay for a 5 jump relocation.

 

[Condottiere]

Are they forced to buy from the company store?

 

[Rupert]

Colonial America was populated by someone else paying the fee for Trans-Atlantic passage in the 1600's. That could have been in the form of a Corporate Charter with Investors expecting to be repaid with a profit and early colonists struggling to repay the debt of the colony, or with "indentured servitude" (an employer paying the fare in exchange for a contract to work for X years to repay it).

Just for fun, let's assume 5 jumps from source to colony [Cr 40,000 in middle passages] to import a worker. Let us also assume that the worker will earn Cr 1000 per month with Cr 500 going towards a Cr 80,000 debt (doubled to cover the employer's risk). That would work out to 160 months to pay off the passage (just over 13 years) and then the worker is free to do whatever, wherever. If the average wage is doubled (or the colony assumes the risk and only charges cost), then the time to repay is halved (just under 7 years).

... and that was for a 5 jump passage!

So it only takes a 2 term employment contract on the new colony to pay for a 5 jump relocation.

Or as you note, 3+ if there's extra for risk and/or high interest. With starship mortgage rates it'd take a bit under 9 years to pay off. Three terms implies about 11% annual interest, which seems like a reasonable low-end ROI. Five terms gives 14%, which wouldn't be an unreasonable ROI + risk factor, I think.

Making the colonists buy everything from the company store on top of that, plus charging punitive rents is plain greed. Claiming low/no interest and then making it back via this monopoly is probably false advertising. Whether one, both, or neither is illegal will depend on the jurisdiction. Whether any illegality is at all meaningful depends on whether that jurisdiction's justice system actually functions fairly. Historically the odds are that the jurisdiction is 'local' and the system is run by and for the employers, so screwing the immigrants will be norm no matter what the laws actually say.

 

[whulorigan]

Quite! The House of Lords even purged of hereditaries is now the largest legislative chamber in the world.

And when Britain had an empire and peers were being sent out to govern New South Wales there were far fewer peers and a much larger subject population.

My problem with chargen is not the 3% chance of rolling a baron but that barons - let alone the grand admiral and duke it is relatively easy to generate - as defined in the OTU fluff are vastly more powerful and wealthy than a player character can plausibly be.

But part of the problem there is that people think of a Social Standing/Noble Title (Soc 11-15) like a "Job" instead of Social Standing being simply a Social Level/Distinction within the Society. Titled Social Levels merely qualify you to hold certain positions of authority at a certain level or less, should you desire to pursue such a life and you are presented with the right opportunities by the Sovereign or other appropriate respective administrators. They do not guarantee any roll within the political or governmental structure.

One would normally expect a Noble generated by CharGen to be an Honor and/or Hereditary/Legacy Noble or non-inheriting cadet-line scion of a family unless the actual CharGen process would suggest otherwise. Remember, going all the way back to CT: Book 1, unlike British Tradition (but more akin to Continental aristocratic systems) ALL members of a Noble family are considered Noble (even non-inheriting lines) and normally use a title associated with their rank-level, whether inheriting and/or involved in government or not. It may be a courtesy title, but they are still considered Noble, not Common. (Of course, in cadet lines those Soc-levels decrease thru successive generations).

Any Landed/High or Ranking Administrative Bureaucratic Noble working in a government position is going to be far more wealthy with resources at his disposal than a person who simply claims membership in a Noble House or someone who got socially promoted as an Honour.

Also, remember that the premise of the Traveller CharGen system was that upon mustering out of CharGen, the character was considered to have undergone a "significant career change", and was no longer in his prior service, but rather was now a "Traveller". This included the "Noble", whether it was the "Professional" Noble of Sup4: CotI or simply the High-Soc Character from another background profession. He was no longer "in Government", for whatever reason, (presuming he had been in the first place), any more than he was still on active duty in the Navy or Marines. So part of the responsibility of the player was to flesh-out the character background and the reason why his character was in the situation he was in. Perhaps other Nobles, Flag Officers, etc., have access to far more wealth and resources than what you apparently have from CharGen. Why is that - what is different about your situation? That is what makes for your background an interesting character as a protagonist. And for a campaign, it gives your character a potential motivation and/or goal for a story-arc.

My problem with chargen is not the 3% chance of rolling a baron but that barons - let alone the grand admiral and duke it is relatively easy to generate - as defined in the OTU fluff are vastly more powerful and wealthy than a player character can plausibly be. If I remember correctly past discussions here or perhaps in the TML Hans Rancke-Madsen addressed this by uncapping SOC and greatly extending the noble ranks so an actual duke would be SOC 28 or whatever?

Hans's system was published in an issue of Traveller Chronicle (I would have to look up which one). I personally think his table was too granular (resulting in far too many fractionally different levels for the relative stat-scale range), but his essential point was that a "Duke" on Earth today (say in the UK who may be associated with a "County-sized Dukedom" in England [and perhaps 100s of thousands of people] if he is a Hereditary Peer) bears no comparison to an Imperial Duke of the Third Imperium who (if High/Landed) could be associated with an entire subsector-worth of 30-40 worlds and 100s of billions of people. The scale and revenue are different by orders of magnitude.

"King" Charles III rules over a territory (with subordinate British Barons thru Dukes) that by Imperial standards in terms of T5 Noble Land Grant Terrain Hexes (when everything is taken into account) is about the equivalent of the level of economic control of the average Imperial Marquis (NOTE: Keep in mind that because of the weirdness of the history of the Imperial Marquis title in terms of relative precedence, it occupies a position just above Baron, i.e. like a Viscount in the standard European scale).

the grand admiral . . . it is relatively easy to generate . . .

As an aside, this is easier to deal with. This is yet another place where the setting-fluff background of the OTU differs from the mechanics of the CharGen system. A perusal of the TNS-articles in TAS during the 5^thFW makes it clear that the ranks of Rear Admiral, Vice-Admiral, "Admiral" and "Sector Admiral" are all cnnoical ranks in the Thrird Imperium, and Library Data established the "Grand Admiral" rank as well during the 1^stFW and 2^ndFW. The High Guard rank of O8 "Fleet Admiral" is not the same thing as a 5-Star USN "Fleet Admiral" or RN "Admiral-of-the-Fleet", but rather it is a descriptive term for a job, a "fighting admiral" or "fleet commander". The 5-Star (or "6-Star") Ranks are the Sector Admiral and Grand Admiral (like the old German Kriegsmarine "General-Admiral" and "Groß Admiral", respectively.

Officer Rank O8 actually comprises all three of the ranks of Rear Admiral, Vice-Admiral, and "Admiral", so you can justify making promotions work up thru all of those ranks while maintaining them at O8 "Fleet Admiral" before moving to O9 Sector Admiral. Optionally, you could also subdivide Commodore between ("Captain as Acting Commodore" / "Vice-Commodore" and substantive "Commodore") to absorb the promotion "bloat").

IMPERIAL NAVY OFFICER * FLAG RANKS *
Rank (Book 5 - High Guard)	Rank (Imperial Navy)	Rank Name
O7a	O7a	(Vice-Commodore)
O7b	O7b	Commodore
O8a	O8	Rear Admiral
O8b	O9	Vice-Admiral
O8c	O10	(Fleet) Admiral
O9	O11	Sector Admiral
O10	O12	Grand Admiral

Another thing you can do is alter the promotion throw:

Devise a roll where you get promoted when you roll above some value based on your current rank.​

​

I have used roll above current rank (on 2^ndcolumn above) on 1½D (i.e 1D6 + 1D3) +DMs. That gives a bell-curve range from 2-9. Lower ranks promote relatively quick. Upper ranks are difficult. Upper Flag Ranks impossible without Mods/DMs (such as Decorations).​