Skill Frequency

[Condottiere]

RANK Paygrade
0 C0 Volunteer Gun Combat/one
1 C1 Trooper Reconnaissance/one
2 C2 Lancer Tactics/one
3 C3 Watchmaster Leadership/one
3 C4 Scoutmaster Administration/one
4 C5 Quartermaster Social Standing/eight, requirement profession/Logistician/one, Broker/one, Athletics/zero, Gun Combat/two
- C59 Master Chef Social Standing/nine, Regimental chief non commissioned officer
4 C6 Cornet Leadership plus one
- C60 officer cadet
- C69 Captain Lieutenant, Squadron second in command
5 C7 Captain Diplomat/one
- C70 captain, spacecraft commanding officer
- C71 Staff Captain,
- C72 Flight Captain,
- C73 Group Captain, smallcraft senior commander
- C74 Senior Captain,
- C75 Captain Major, senior Captain, battalion equivalent or flotilla
- C76 Grand Captain, appointed, brigade equivalent or argosy
- C77 Great Captain, appointed, division equivalent
- C78 Lieutenant Colonel, appointed, regimental commander representative
- C79 Captain General, appointed, corps equivalent or armada
6 C8 Colonel Social Standing/(ten or plus one - whichever is higher), promoted through the ranks
- C88 Colonel of the Regiment, lobbyist, usually retired regimental CAVALRY Colonel, Marine Commandant or Grand Admiral
- C89 Colonel General of the CAVALRY
7 O9 Colonel General of the CAVALRY requirement Grand Admiral of the Solomani Confederation Navy


Something I cooked up.

 

[whulorigan]

RANK Paygrade
0 C0 Volunteer Gun Combat/one
1 C1 Trooper Reconnaissance/one
2 C2 Lancer Tactics/one
3 C3 Watchmaster Leadership/one
3 C4 Scoutmaster Administration/one
4 C5 Quartermaster Social Standing/eight, requirement profession/Logistician/one, Broker/one, Athletics/zero, Gun Combat/two
- C59 Master Chef Social Standing/nine, Regimental chief non commissioned officer
4 C6 Cornet Leadership plus one
- C60 officer cadet
- C69 Captain Lieutenant, Squadron second in command
5 C7 Captain Diplomat/one
- C70 captain, spacecraft commanding officer
- C71 Staff Captain,
- C72 Flight Captain,
- C73 Group Captain, smallcraft senior commander
- C74 Senior Captain,
- C75 Captain Major, senior Captain, battalion equivalent or flotilla
- C76 Grand Captain, appointed, brigade equivalent or argosy
- C77 Great Captain, appointed, division equivalent
- C78 Lieutenant Colonel, appointed, regimental commander representative
- C79 Captain General, appointed, corps equivalent or armada
6 C8 Colonel Social Standing/(ten or plus one - whichever is higher), promoted through the ranks
- C88 Colonel of the Regiment, lobbyist, usually retired regimental CAVALRY Colonel, Marine Commandant or Grand Admiral
- C89 Colonel General of the CAVALRY
7 O9 Colonel General of the CAVALRY requirement Grand Admiral of the Solomani Confederation Navy


Something I cooked up.

I put it in a table for you to make it clearer.
Look it over and make sure I interpreted it correctly.

CONDOTIERRE:
Military Ranks:

Rank	Paygrade	Rank Name	NOTES
0	C0	Volunteer	Benefit/Receive: Gun Combat-1
1	C1	Trooper	Benefit/Receive: Recon-1
2	C2	Lancer	Benefit/Receive: Tactics-1
3	C3	Watchmaster	Benefit/Receive: Leader-1
3	C4	Scoutmaster	Benefit/Receive: Admin-1
4	C5	Quartermaster	Requirement: Profession: Logistics-1 Benefit/Receive: Soc: 08; Athletics-0; Broker-1; Gun Combat-2
-	C59	Master Chief	Regimental Chief NCO | Benefit/Receive: Soc: 09
	--	--	--
4	C6	Cornet	Benefit/Receive: Leadership (+1)
-	C60	( Officer Cadet )
-	C69	Captain-Lieutenant	Squadron Second-in-Command

5	C7	Captain	Benefit/Receive: Diplomat-1
-	C70	Captain	Spacecraft Commanding Officer
-	C71	Staff Captain
-	C72	Flight Captain
-	C73	Group Captain	Smallcraft Senior Commander
-	C74	Senior Captain
-	C75	Captain-Major	Senior Captain - Commander: Battalion-equivalent or Flotilla
-	C76	Grand Captain	Appointed: Commander: Brigade-equivalent or Argosy
-	C77	Great Captain	Appointed: Commander: Division-equivalent
-	C78	Lieutenant Colonel	Appointed: Regimental Commander representative

-	C79	Captain General	Appointed: Commander: Corps-equivalent or Armada
6	C8	Colonel	Promoted thru the Ranks Benefit/Receive: Soc:10 or Soc +1 (whichever is higher)
-	C88	Colonel of the Regiment	Lobbyist: Usually - Retired Regimental CAVALRY Colonel, Marine Commandant or Grand Admiral
-	C89	Colonel General of the CAVALRY
7	C9 / O9	Colonel General of the CAVALRY	Requirement: Grand Admiral of the Solomani Confederation Navy

 

[Condottiere]

Not bad.

Nuances:

1. C59 Master Chef - there's no eye in leadership

2. C70 captain - uncapitalized cee

 

[TamsinP]

1. C59 Master Chef - there's no eye in leadership

Only in the Catering Corps for that rank title

 

[Dragoner]

Then they march on your capital with their mercenary army.

 

[kilemall]

Yep my probabilities were off - so much easier to roll 1d1000/3d10 and need 000...

Only one in a thousand make it off world? If so how did all those 11,000 or whatever it is worlds actually get populated?

A middle passage is not cheap but it is hardly beyond the means of the typical imperial citizen to get off world - particularly given how horrible so many high population worlds are!

If you live under a giant dome cheek by jowl with a billion neighbours under a repressive dictatorship with an atmosphere outside that will strip the unprotected flesh from your bones in seconds who wouldn't save up for a trip to a garden world?

It’s not so much one ticket as 10 to get to a viable lower pop world.

 

[Badenov]

 

[aramis]

At this point, wouldn't a percentage system be simpler?

Yes, But not in keeping with Traveller.

 

[atpollard]

Yes, But not in keeping with Traveller.

Then just use the same concept with [base 6] instead of [base 10].

roll 1d6
[1] = Soc 1 (17%)
[2] = Soc 2 (17%)
[3] = soc 3 (17%)
[4] = soc 4 (17%)
[5] = soc 5 (17%)
[6] = roll another d6 (17%)
[6,1] = Soc 6 [8%]
[6,2] = Soc 6 [8%]
[6,3] = Soc 6 [8%]
[6,4] = Soc 7 [6%]
[6,5] = Soc 7 [6%]
[6,6] = roll another d6 (3%)
[6,6,1] = Soc 8 [1.4%]
[6,6,2] = Soc 8 [1.4%]
[6,6,3] = Soc 8 [1.4%]
[6,6,4] = Soc 9 [0.9%]
[6,6,5] = Soc 9 [0.9%]
[6,6,6] = roll another d6 (0.5%)
[6,6,6,1] = Soc A [0.23%]
[6,6,6,2] = Soc A [0.23%]
[6,6,6,3] = Soc A [0.23%]
[6,6,6,4] = Soc B [0.15%]
[6,6,6,5] = Soc B [0.15%]
[6,6,6,6] = roll another d6 (0.08%)
[6,6,6,6,1] = Soc C [0.04%]
[6,6,6,6,2] = Soc C [0.04%]
[6,6,6,6,3] = Soc C [0.04%]
[6,6,6,6,4] = Soc D [0.03%]
[6,6,6,6,5] = Soc D [0.03%]
[6,6,6,6,6] = roll another d6 (0.013%)
[6,6,6,6,6,1] = Soc E [0.009%]
[6,6,6,6,6,2] = Soc E [0.009%]
[6,6,6,6,6,3] = Soc E [0.009%]
[6,6,6,6,6,4] = Soc E [0.009%]
[6,6,6,6,6,5] = Soc F [0.004%]
[6,6,6,6,6,6] = Soc F [0.004%]

[I tried to approximate your % progression as representative of "general population" ... TRAVELLERS can still use 2d6 to generate SOC per normal to reflect a "curve" for people that leave worlds and change careers for adventure.]

[It might be better if above Soc B ... each additional 6 indicates +1 Soc.]
[6,6,6,6] = roll another d6 (0.08%)
[6,6,6,6,1] = Soc C [0.06%]
[6,6,6,6,2] = Soc C [0.06%]
[6,6,6,6,3] = Soc C [0.06%]
[6,6,6,6,4] = Soc C [0.06%]
[6,6,6,6,5] = Soc C [0.06%]
[6,6,6,6,6] = roll another d6 (0.01%)
[6,6,6,6,6,1] = Soc D [0.01%]
[6,6,6,6,6,2] = Soc D [0.01%]
[6,6,6,6,6,3] = Soc D [0.01%]
[6,6,6,6,6,4] = Soc D [0.01%]
[6,6,6,6,6,5] = Soc D [0.01%]
[6,6,6,6,6,6] = roll another d6 (0.002%)
[6,6,6,6,6,6,1] = Soc E [0.0018%]
[6,6,6,6,6,6,2] = Soc E [0.0018%]
[6,6,6,6,6,6,3] = Soc E [0.0018%]
[6,6,6,6,6,6,4] = Soc E [0.0018%]
[6,6,6,6,6,6,5] = Soc E [0.0018%]
[6,6,6,6,6,6,6] = Soc F [0.0004%]

Still TOO many people for simulationist! [the USA would have over 1000 "Soc F" people!]

 

[Badenov]

Then just use the same concept with [base 6] instead of [base 10].

roll 1d6
[1] = Soc 1 (17%)
[2] = Soc 2 (17%)
[3] = soc 3 (17%)
[4] = soc 4 (17%)
[5] = soc 5 (17%)

Snipped

Still TOO many people for simulationist! [the USA would have over 1000 "Soc F" people!]

And it weights society down with most (83%) of the people in Soc 1-5, which probably isn't right, unless you're building an Idiocracy sort of dystopia?

 

[kilemall]

Snipped

And it weights society down with most (83%) of the people in Soc 1-5, which probably isn't right, unless you're building an Idiocracy sort of dystopia?

If you want to get simulationist, world trade codes or T5 type social codes should skew SOC gen.

 

[atpollard]

Snipped

And it weights society down with most (83%) of the people in Soc 1-5, which probably isn't right, unless you're building an Idiocracy sort of dystopia?

I was just mapping as close as practicable to post #104 percentages for SOC 1-5 ...

13.2%

18.8%

20.1%

17.3%

13.2%

Using 2020 data on US Income distribution, and assuming a linear model like Cr 500 per month x SOC [as some versions use], the GENERAL POPULATION skews very low ...

Soc 1 = 20% [poverty level] ($ 30,000 /yr)
Soc 2 = 20 % ($ 60,000 /yr)
Soc 3-4 = 20% [middle class] ($ 90,000-120,000 /yr)
Soc 5-7 = 20% ($ 150,000-210,000 /yr)
Soc 8+ = top 20% ($ 240,000+ /yr)
Soc 12+ = top 5% ($ 360,000+ /yr)

 

[RogerMC]

IMPERIAL NAVY OFFICER * FLAG RANKS *
Rank (Book 5 - High Guard)	Rank (Imperial Navy)	Rank Name
O7a	O7a	(Vice-Commodore)
O7b	O7b	Commodore
O8a	O8	Rear Admiral
O8b	O9	Vice-Admiral
O8c	O10	(Fleet) Admiral
O9	O11	Sector Admiral
O10	O12	Grand Admiral

Another thing you can do is alter the promotion throw:

Devise a roll where you get promoted when you roll above some value based on your current rank.​

​

I have used roll above current rank (on 2^ndcolumn above) on 1½D (i.e 1D6 + 1D3) +DMs. That gives a bell-curve range from 2-9. Lower ranks promote relatively quick. Upper ranks are difficult. Upper Flag Ranks impossible without Mods/DMs (such as Decorations).​

My version is that ranks are O1 to O10 with the flag ranks being Commodore, Rear Admiral, Vice Admiral and Admiral while Fleet, Sector and Grand Admiral are positions that can be held by any flag rank - this is the only way to explain how Lord Santanocheev gets to be canonically a Rear Admiral and Sector Admiral.

With the Imperial Army O10 is General with higher positions being Vice-Marshal, Marshal and Grand Marshal.

Marine ranks are of course a mess...

For me rolling both the promotion roll and higher than next rank on the same 2D works fine and makes it much harder but not impossible to reach top flag and general ranks.

Also have one auto and one rolled promotion each term for non-commissioned ranks as a high-tech military needs many more NCOs and warrant officers than old mass conscript armies.

 

[RogerMC]

As for migration costs remember we also have steerage and low passage (which cannot possibly be as lethal as depicted in some versions of Traveller!) and that many or most migrants like the middle classes in the RW will have major assets they can sell.

Given how much Traveller simulates age of sail but in SPACE a comparison could be made with transatlantic steerage fares in the 19th century - these were around £12 in the 1810s but fell to a third of that as steam replaced sail by the 1850s. At which point the cost of migration from the UK to US was rather less than a month's salary of an ordinary British workman.

And this ratio of cost to emigrant resources of course fuelled a wave of transatlantic migration that populated an entire continent...

I cannot see that people in the OTU would be radically poorer than people in C19 Europe relative to the costs of migration or that the journey across several parsecs would be any less onerous or dangerous than the journey across the Atlantic by sail or early steamship.

So IMTU 'travellers' defined as people who ever leave their home planet are way more common than one in a thousand.

 

[whulorigan]

Here is my method using the T5 "GOOD FLUX" Mechanic and the "Exploding Dice" Mechanic:

Term Definitions:

· [GOOD FLUX] = Roll 1D6 – 1D6 ( subtract [lower result] from [higher result] ) .​

Range = 0-5​

Peak-value/Mean = ~ +1
Distribution: Skewed Bell-curve - Sharp drop from +1 toward "0", more tapered drop from +1 toward +5​

​

Definition #1 · { EXPLODING: [GOOD FLUX] } ==> If [GOOD FLUX] = 5, then roll [GOOD FLUX] again and add it to the prior result.​

Definition #2 · { EXPLODING: [ [GOOD FLUX] - "#" ] } (minimum result of “0” --> round negative results to "0")​

==> "#" is a number variable (will be specified below in formulas)​

==> If [GOOD FLUX] Roll = 5, then roll [GOOD FLUX] again and add it to the prior result.​

==> Subtract “- #” from [GOOD FLUX] roll, but never reduce to less than “0”​

[GOOD FLUX] ==> Range Values: [0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5]​

[GOOD FLUX] - 1 ] ==> Range Values: [0, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4]​

[GOOD FLUX] - 2 ] ==> Range Values: [0, 0, 0, 1, 2, 3]​

[GOOD FLUX] - 3 ] ==> Range Values: [0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 2]​

[GOOD FLUX] - 4 ] ==> Range Values: [0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1]​

=========================================================
METHOD:

Generate C6/Soc using the following procedure:

1st Roll:

2 + { EXPLODING: [GOOD FLUX] } (min 0) = 2-6

==> If [GOOD FLUX] = 5, then:​

Add { EXPLODING: [ [GOOD FLUX] - 1 ] } (min 0) = 7-10​

If [GOOD FLUX] = 5, then Result = 11 (Nobility)​

==> Move to Nobility Table:​

________________________________________
NOBILITY TABLE:
___________________

Add [ [GOOD FLUX] - 1 ] (min 0) to prior result from above:

11 + [ [GOOD FLUX] - 1 ] (min 0) : See Gentry & Baronage Sub-Table​

Gentry & Baronage:
=11 ==> Soc= 11/B (Knight)
=12 ==> Soc= 12/c (Baronet)
=13 ==> Soc= 12/C (Baron)
=14 ==> Soc= 13/d (Lord Peer) / (Imperial Baronage: Baron Peer)
=15 ==> 15 + [ [GOOD FLUX] - 2 ] (min 0)}: See Peerage Sub-Table

Peerage:​

=15 ==> Soc= 13/D (Marquis)​

=16 ==> Soc= 14/e (Viscount)​

=17 ==> Soc= 14/E (Count)​

=18 ==> 18 + [ [GOOD FLUX] - 3 ] (min 0): See High Nobility/Peerage Sub-Table​

High Nobility/Peerage:​

=18 ==> Soc= 15/f (Duke)​

=19 ==> Soc= 15/F (Greater Duke)​

=20 ==> 20 + [ [GOOD FLUX] - 4 ] (min 0) :​

________________​

=20 ==> Soc= 16/g (Grand Duke/Prince)​

=21 ==> Soc= 16/G (Archduke/Prince)​

=========================================================

Note that this method skews the majority of C6/Soc values in the 3-5 range (the precipitous "drop" of the [GOOD FLUX] distribution curve between +1 and 0 means that there are comparatively few in that range, and nobody in the C6/Soc = 1 range unless the Referee deliberately applies a -1 DM). This reflects the fact that the absolute lowest rung of the "Social Pyramid" (C6/Soc = 2) is not in fact the largest Social Class in most societies, and that C6/Soc = 1 ("Slave"/"Untouchable") is not a normal result within the Imperium and is not normally applied without Referee intervention.

 

[Dragoner]

I removed the higher ranks from chargen because someone playing an admiral was eh. Felt too much Gilbert and Sullivan-ish.

 

[Badenov]

I was just mapping as close as practicable to post #104 percentages for SOC 1-5 ...

13.2%

18.8%

20.1%

17.3%

13.2%

Using 2020 data on US Income distribution, and assuming a linear model like Cr 500 per month x SOC [as some versions use], the GENERAL POPULATION skews very low ...

Soc 1 = 20% [poverty level] ($ 30,000 /yr)
Soc 2 = 20 % ($ 60,000 /yr)
Soc 3-4 = 20% [middle class] ($ 90,000-120,000 /yr)
Soc 5-7 = 20% ($ 150,000-210,000 /yr)
Soc 8+ = top 20% ($ 240,000+ /yr)
Soc 12+ = top 5% ($ 360,000+ /yr)

That calculation seems very bent. I'm pretty sure the middle class isn't supposed to map to Soc 3-4. Since the default roll is 2d6, soc 3-4 seems like it ought to represent 12% of people pretty near the bottom of society, not the middle class, who I expect to find closer to the middle of 2-12. The costs of lifestyle things map to this, so remapping Soc to a different average and spread begs a deeper rewriting of the game.

 

[whulorigan]

My version is that ranks are O1 to O10 with the flag ranks being Commodore, Rear Admiral, Vice Admiral and Admiral while Fleet, Sector and Grand Admiral are positions that can be held by any flag rank - this is the only way to explain how Lord Santanocheev gets to be canonically a Rear Admiral and Sector Admiral.

Well, the other way is thru patronage and nepotism, since he is related to Duchess Delphine of Mora, the de facto acting Sector Duchess at the outbreak of hostilities . . .

My version is that ranks are O1 to O10 with the flag ranks being Commodore, Rear Admiral, Vice Admiral and Admiral while Fleet, Sector and Grand Admiral are positions that can be held by any flag rank

I actually use the idea that "Fleet Admiral" and "Sector Admiral" are positions as well, but I still use the O0 - O12 scale (Midshipman --> Grand Admiral), because with an organization and Fleet structure with the size and scope of the Imperial Navy, you will need the higher-level supervisory ranks:

		IMPERIAL NAVY OFFICER * FLAG RANKS *

IN Rank (Pay Grade)	Official Rank Name	Positions / Appointments
O7 (a)	(Vice-Commodore) [Captain/Acting Commodore]	Fighting Command: Flotilla Commander
O7 (b)	Commodore	Fighting Command: Large Flotilla Commander Fighting Command: Squadron Commander / Task Unit Commander
O8	Rear Admiral	Fleet/Subsector Staff: Staff Admiral Fighting Command: Task Group Commander Minor Sector: - Regional: Subsector Reserve Fleet Commander
O9	Vice-Admiral	Fighting Command: Task Force Commander / Battle Fleet Commander Major Sector: - Regional: Subsector Reserve Fleet Commander Minor Sector: - Regional: Subsector Fleet Commander: "Subsector Admiral" - Staff: IN Branch - Sector Officer
O10	Admiral	Major Sector: - Regional: Subsector Fleet Commander: "Subsector Admiral" - Staff: IN Branch - Sector Officer Minor Sector: - Regional: Sector Fleet Commander: "Sector Admiral"; Regional Commander
O11	General Admiral	IN Staff: IN Branch - Senior Officer Major Sector: - Regional: Sector Fleet Commander: "Sector Admiral"; Regional Commander
O12	Grand Admiral	Regional: Theatre of Operations High Command

Marine ranks are of course a mess...

Marines need more than just O7/Brigadier as top rank.

Some positions can be fractional positional-rank appointments for O7/Brigadiers, but you will eventually need some type of higher organizational structure for something both the size and number of the Fleets and Sectors of the Imperium. That is why I think an "O8/Brigadier General" (2-star) works well for their tradition for the Sector-Fleet level (or war-time large scale theater operations), which can then also handle additional higher-level fractional positional-rank appointment promotions. A "Brigadier-Marshal" or "Brigadier-Commandant" rank works well for a 3-4 star appointment at Capital as Head-of-the-Corps.

Also have one auto and one rolled promotion each term for non-commissioned ranks as a high-tech military needs many more NCOs and warrant officers than old mass conscript armies.

YES THIS.

I personally like to have explicit Warrant Ranks, and mix the USN & RN systems. W1 & W2 correspond to E8 & E9 in all of the services as standard Warrant Ranks (like British Warrant Offiicer-2 and Warrant Officer-1 ==> They stand above the NCOs but are not commissioned). But I also make House-Rule provision for 3 Commissioned Warrant Officer Ranks like the US system correspond to W3/Senior Warrant; W4/Chief Warrant; and W5/Master Warrant. W3 ranks with but behind O0 (Officer Cadet); W4 ranks with but behind O1, and W5 ranks with but behind O2 (much as the old RN Rank "Master" did, junior to Lieutenant, but above above Midshipman and also Sublieutenant/Passed-Midshipman (I believe). It is more or less the same as the mid-20th Century RN Rank "Commissioned Officer", junior to Sublieutenant.

 

[Condottiere]

The Imperium has twenty one sectors, so you probably do need to add a couple of tiers to the hierarchy.

I give the Confederation a flatter hierarchy.

 

[Badenov]

The whole thing that Marines don't get anyone above O-8 except the actual person in command of the Corps as a whole bothers me also. It seems to be that Marines are managed more or less like separate subsector services and only organized to that level. That would mean that Imperial Marines in adjacent subsectors would have very little commonality apart from by chance.

wiki.travellrerpg.com says Imperial Marine O-7 and O-8 are Navy appointments, and I'm not sure quite what that even means. If it means the Navy selects which Marines make O-7 and O-8, that's sketchy. If it means Naval Officers are selected for Marine O-7 and O-8, that's bent.

The lack of officers over O-8 implies either that Marines have no commonality (other than the name) Empire-wide, which doesn't really work for me, or else all the higher-level organization is left purely in the hands of the Navy, which does not make sense, and will almost certainly result in problems.